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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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farshot
.300 member


Reged: 25/01/06
Posts: 106
Loc: Alberta Canada
1903 Questions
      #134480 - 05/05/09 03:48 AM

I just picked up a full stock MS 1903 in 6.5 x 54MS.
All serial numbers match. There are serial numbers on the stock, bbl, trigger guard, trigger, receiver. I cant find a mark on the bolt - but do not know where a number may be located.

The bbl measure approx. 19.5 inch (or metric equivalent) to the bolt face from the muzzle.
The bore and chamber is very nice and bright and clean.
The stamps indicate that it was been built in 4 . 29

The issues are:

1. Is the 19.5 inch bbl normal (available) for a 1903 carbine?
2. It has a single, dual stage trigger. The stock opening for the single trigger would not even have the room for a dual set trigger design.
3. The trigger guard appears to be more "military" and not the delicate trigger guard with the scroll at the back that is "normal" that I see in various pictures of 1903 carbines. It does however have the correct serial stamp on it to match the rifle.

The proper patent information, 1903 stamp and stippling is on the top of the receiver as normal for the commercial version MS 1903.

The stock and butt plate (with cleaning rod trap and 2 rounds is there as is the slight triangle at the top to fit into the wood), front sight, grip area, cherkering, etc looks corect in every respect. The bolt is bright and does not appear to be military at all. No work on the wood is present.

I have seen a few military re-works and know that they have a Greek Crest and the bolt is rougher a sis the stock.

I am concerned that perhaps this is a military reworked version because of the trigger guard and bbl length.

I realize that by 1929 some alterations may have been made for other markets. Are these changes normal for this rifle?

I cant appear to get the pictures to get through to show you.

Any help from you fellows that have seen a lot of these is greatly appreciated.

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DuggaBoy
.300 member


Reged: 03/03/09
Posts: 106
Loc: Tx
Re: 1903 Questions [Re: farshot]
      #134491 - 05/05/09 06:11 AM

In general the early full stocks had an 18" (actually 17.7")barrel.
In 1929 that should have been a 20" barrel on the full stock Austrians.
(In the 1950's the 6.5's predominately had 18.25 " barrels on the full stocks.)
It would Be a rarity that the receiver ring would be reworked to copy the factory, but not impossible for a good smith.
The weapon in 1929 should have a flat (butter-knife) bolt strait down with no rear tilt.
Does it have Steyr on the left side of the receiver?
Does it have any British proofs,many of these guns were "customized" or "remanufactured" in Britain.
Many were single trigger, especially the Brits.

Picture would certainly be helpful.

--------------------
DuggaBoy
NRA-Life
Whittington-Life
TSRA-Life
DSC

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LongIsland
.224 member


Reged: 09/02/09
Posts: 38
Loc: New York, U.S.A.
Re: 1903 Questions [Re: DuggaBoy]
      #134528 - 05/05/09 01:17 PM

The commercial M-S should have the bolt stop spring at the area between the bolt handle and the action opening. As far as bbl. length, from Max Chittick book M-S 1903 in 6.5x54 was offered only in 6.5x54 and three versions,a carbine w/ 17.7" bbl, sporter half stock w/23.5" bbl.,and the takedown model w/23.5" bbl. All three were offered w/ DST or ST. All models were equipped w/ a sheared bead on a bbl. band front sight and 2 blade(1standing-1 folding) rear sight.
Bob

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farshot
.300 member


Reged: 25/01/06
Posts: 106
Loc: Alberta Canada
Re: 1903 Questions [Re: LongIsland]
      #134565 - 06/05/09 01:00 AM

Some more info based on the comments made.

It does have the straight butter knife bolt handle with no back tilt. There is the bolt stop spring where required.

The front and rear sights are correct.

It has the inscription:

"Oesterr Waffenfabr-Ges. Steyr" on the top receiver left side as expected.

I suspect it is a commercial rifle.

Again - I measure bbls by placing a cleaning rod down the bbl until it hits the face of the closed bolt and measure to the muzzle. I do not know if this is the way that they were measured in 1903 or 1929.

Thanks to Longisland for the nfo that it did come with DS or single triggers

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malco
.275 member


Reged: 11/02/09
Posts: 76
Loc: montana, usa
Re: 1903 Questions [Re: farshot]
      #135028 - 11/05/09 12:43 AM

Congrats on your find--commercial 1903s with good bores aren't exactly easy to find nowadays. Usually the underside of the bolt handle has a serial stamp, although I've seen several that were mis-marked, always just a number or two off what appears on the rest of the gun--I think it must have been a relatively common (or at least not-unheard-of) assembly gaffe in the factory. Given that, a bolt with no number whatever seems perfectly likely. Does the script on the action ring read "Made in Austria," in English? If so, it probably would have been an export gun to Britain or America. Griffin and Howe and Sequoia Importing Company literature from the '20s advertise both single and double-set triggers, though the latter seems to be much more common. Regarding barrel length, the above quoted 17.7" was standard, although factory variations do exist--these rifles had a terrific amount of handwork, and special-order lengths and features could certainly be had. I would guess that custom features occur more on European-market guns than the English-script export guns, though I don't know this for sure. If you intend to hand-load for your 1903, I and I'm sure others on here can give you some pointers--the gun/cartridge combo is a bit more complicated to load for than most, though a lot of fun once you iron out the kinks.
Best,
Malcolm

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malco
.275 member


Reged: 11/02/09
Posts: 76
Loc: montana, usa
Re: 1903 Questions [Re: malco]
      #136390 - 30/05/09 09:10 AM

A quick update on observed barrel length--Gunbroker currently lists a 1903 full-stock rifle with a barrel significantly longer than the standard sub-18" carbine length, plus the English "Made in Austria" marking on the receiver. Judging by the visible serial #, I'd say the rifle dates from around 1930. So the special order-lengths evidently weren't limited to Continental-market guns...

Best,
Malcolm

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farshot
.300 member


Reged: 25/01/06
Posts: 106
Loc: Alberta Canada
Re: 1903 Questions [Re: malco]
      #136469 - 01/06/09 07:17 AM

I see that Malco -- that one looks very much like mine -- too bad they dont list the bbl length on that advert. Nice to see the single trigger in the relatively military looking trigger guard as well (like mine)

Mine has the English writing on the top as well (along with 2 small tapped and capped scope holes -- sigh)

My stock is alot darker tho - but the length apears to be about the same.

anyways -- i am trying to get some pics up for reference sake anyway - but thanks for the help guys.

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malco
.275 member


Reged: 11/02/09
Posts: 76
Loc: montana, usa
Re: 1903 Questions [Re: farshot]
      #136480 - 01/06/09 10:51 AM

I'm fairly certain that stock has been stripped down, and the checkering possibly re-cut (although certainly not badly--on my two '20s vintage Mannlichers, the original checkering is noticeably shoddy in comparison to the overall workmanship). Using a ruler against the Gunbroker photos, plus my standard 1903 carbine's bbl length as an index, I'd also extrapolate a length just under twenty inches on the Gunbroker gun. I'm hoping you get pictures up, just because they'd be fun to look at. I intend to post photos of my rifles soon, as each differs in unique ways from everything else currently logged on this forum. By the way, have you run your serial # on Griffin and Howe's online research index? If your gun ever passed through their shop, you may be able to learn some interesting provenance. Good luck--

Malcolm

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