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Sarg
.400 member

Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

Is this a Howdah ?
#134319 - 03/05/09 06:45 PM

I found this Flintlock double 16 Bore pistol , I was thinking it might be a early Howdah , I was going to try for it , but it comes cased with a 16 Bore Flintlock Shot gun , same maker & I don't think I can afford or want the Shotgun that must come with it !

Any thoughts on Howdah ?

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Der_Jaeger
.375 member

Reged: 09/10/08
Posts: 607
Loc: SE Pennsylvania

Re: Is this a Howdah ? [Re: Sarg]
#134327 - 03/05/09 09:45 PM

I'm no expert, but it certainly looks like a gun that a hunter would've or could've used while perched high in the Howdah. The 16 bore seems a bit small for such a use, however.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Is this a Howdah ? [Re: Der_Jaeger]
#134336 - 03/05/09 11:31 PM

There were Howdah's as small as .577 Sniders. I have seen pictures of a Lancaster 4 barrel .577 Snider Howdah.

A 16 bore would certainly work well on tigers - however the barrel seem to be a bit shorter on this one. I would not want to be on the receiving end of that 1 ounce ball.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: Is this a Howdah ? [Re: DarylS]
#134346 - 04/05/09 01:07 AM

Good God that little thing looks like a Ripper for sure!

Sixteen bore roundball across the range of an elephant's back is definitely enough to do the job - if the shooter *will do* that is.
Stubby little barrels though!
Dig the bolted flint-locks too!!

Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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450_366
.400 member

Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.

Re: Is this a Howdah ? [Re: tinker]
#134350 - 04/05/09 02:46 AM

I have seen a lot of those big double barreled flintlock/percussion pistols, and they were always called a saddlepistol or a travellers pistol.

The latest years they have been called a howdah? Il bet it has something to do with the value.

But its sure is a nice pistol, and together with ist longer sister, not bad at all.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39893
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Is this a Howdah ? [Re: 450_366]
#134358 - 04/05/09 02:56 AM

Howdahs are named after the harness/platform an elephant wears which the hunters sat it, and the pistols are usually twin barrelled short guns like the one in the picture. If its age is "new" enough to fit in the "European era" of India I guess it could be called one, irrespective of whether it ever saw an elephant or not.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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kamilaroi
.400 member

Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...

Re: Is this a Howdah ? [Re: NitroX]
#134385 - 04/05/09 09:57 AM

There's half a chance it is part of a travellers set as above. I've seen a few described as "captain's pistols" (Mortimers and Eggs)
I think Tony "x" in NSW had them.

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado

Re: Is this a Howdah ? [Re: kamilaroi]
#134419 - 04/05/09 02:12 PM

"Traveller's Pistol" says it all.
Even in the days of old, thugs were often encountered in pairs just as they work now.
Having a big bore double pistol in your hand must have been quite a deterrent!

I really don't know what makes a double pistol a "howdah" or not.
I think as muzzle loaders, they would be of the same bore as their shoulder fired companions, for the simple reason of simplified reloading in the heat of the hunt.
Also, I have noticed that most muzzle loading howdah pistols have their ramrods affixed to the barrels in one way or another to avoid losing them since they were often simply hooked on the belt and not holstered.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Is this a Howdah ? [Re: Huvius]
#134478 - 05/05/09 03:01 AM

I would surmise it may have been made for the India trade - that is, English Officers being stationed in India. The side by side would have been used with shot for fowl as well as with balls for big game - normal stuff. Later on, they'd load only one tube with shot - the other a ball.
The pistol would be for close pretection ( &lovely it is), if needed due to failure of the 'pelter's' load to stop a beast - man or animal. My opinion.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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500grains
.416 member

Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA

Re: Is this a Howdah ? [Re: DarylS]
#134490 - 05/05/09 05:55 AM

That is a great pistol!

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Is this a Howdah ? [Re: 500grains]
#134535 - 05/05/09 03:06 PM

Yes - it is stunning, isn't it.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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kamilaroi
.400 member

Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...

Re: Is this a Howdah ? [Re: DarylS]
#134536 - 05/05/09 03:13 PM

Check the cartouche. I think the crown rampant indiicates a baronet or similar. Probably pommy make.

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9.3x57
.450 member

Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States

Re: Is this a Howdah ? [Re: kamilaroi]
#134564 - 06/05/09 12:45 AM

Howdah?

Who cares!

How about really cool gun!

At any rate, it is certainly the forerunner of the S&W Model 36, yes??

I'm mentally gyrating over the velocity that thing must generate.

First, loading technique??????????

1] Fill both barrels with BP, level with the muzzle.

2] Seat ball to compress load.

3] Charge pan and fire.

Velocity; "Somewhat faster than an arrow"!

Illegal under US law as it falls under the category Flamethrower!

Great post, Sarg!

Buy it!!!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Is this a Howdah ? [Re: 9.3x57]
#134568 - 06/05/09 01:09 AM

Oh yes - most certainly, buy it, Sarg. Charge about 60gr. 3F - .640" ball, .018" patch - estimate 750fps with that 410gr., .64cal. ball.

My bro has a set of 12 bore percussion Damascus barrels, 12" long that will build a beautiful Howdah.

The one pictured above is Pre-Howdah in lineage, I believe.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (06/05/09 01:11 AM)

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9.3x57
.450 member

Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States

Re: Howdah't!!! [Re: DarylS]
#134574 - 06/05/09 02:10 AM

Quote:

Oh yes - most certainly, buy it, Sarg. Charge about 60gr. 3F - .640" ball, .018" patch - estimate 750fps with that 410gr., .64cal. ball.

I think you are being generous, Daryl. Based on my loads from my snubby .38's, I'm guessing more like 580-650 fps max.

This is the start of a debate that can only be settled by Sarg buying that gun, loading for it and chronographing the loads!!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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MacNaughton360
.275 member

Reged: 10/12/07
Posts: 99
Loc: Indiana, USA

Re: Howdah't!!! [Re: 9.3x57]
#134578 - 06/05/09 02:30 AM

I have a friend who has a pair of double flint pistols he has always called Coach Pistols.

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9.3x57
.450 member

Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States

Re: Howdah't!!! [Re: MacNaughton360]
#134580 - 06/05/09 02:52 AM

Quote:

I have a friend who has a pair of double flint pistols he has always called Coach Pistols.

"Coach Pistol" seems more appropriate than either Horse Pistol or Howdah from a practical {not technical, as I do not know for certain how all these terms are used} perspective.

Horse pistol is commonly referred to here as a pistol carried in a pommel holster on the horse.

Inside the coach; short barrels.

Extra stubby tubes aren't needed when the horse or elephant are carrying the fellow in the open.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: Howdah't!!! [Re: 9.3x57]
#134581 - 06/05/09 04:07 AM

Traveler, howdah, coach...

Any way you cut it, that's a sweet little carry piece that will promise a very, very bad day for anything that gets in it's way.

Cheers
Tinker

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450_366
.400 member

Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.

Re: Is this a Howdah ? [Re: Sarg]
#134593 - 06/05/09 05:58 AM

It looks as it git safties, could this be? And the trigger?

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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Sarg
.400 member

Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

Re: Is this a Howdah ? [Re: 450_366]
#134612 - 06/05/09 08:00 AM

Yep sure is cool & after your words I thought I will have a go at , as to back up Daryls claim on velocity .
Rang up the outfit & talked to one of the assisitants , he said NZ $ 4000 was the reserve , I was thinking if I sell some stuff , move the shot gun & case I could have this , then one of his work mates yells out No! No! it's $40000 , so I hang up on him !

Not really .

Both pistol & fowler are by McDermot of Dublin , Ireland , escutcheon has Crown & R & pistol barrels are 4in long , so photo is almost full sized , he didn't know any load info for us .

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39893
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Is this a Howdah ? [Re: Sarg]
#134658 - 06/05/09 03:34 PM

Quote:

... he said NZ $ 4000 was the reserve ... No! No! it's $40000 ...

Damn, so close to getting a real bargain.

If you had said, "Yep I'll take it for $4000" you might have had a 'contract'.

Fat chance though.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Is this a Howdah ? [Re: NitroX]
#134700 - 07/05/09 12:52 AM

40,000??? Yikes!

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Checkman
.333 member

Reged: 15/03/08
Posts: 256
Loc: Idaho

Re: Is this a Howdah ? [Re: DarylS]
#145389 - 08/11/09 12:22 PM

Wow. that is one amazing looking model.

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