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tophet1
.400 member

Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia

When did the Elephant Die ?
#132848 - 20/04/09 02:24 PM

Comments on this Video please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zcd2q8MUwR4

Edited by tophet1 (20/04/09 05:08 PM)

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450_366
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Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.

Re: When did the Elephant Die ? [Re: tophet1]
#132856 - 20/04/09 04:37 PM

What do you mean, the tail and the clip 4,3m into the film?

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39877
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Re: When did the Elephant Die ? [Re: 450_366]
#132857 - 20/04/09 04:47 PM

The first shot drops the elephant, and the elephant reacts like the shot is a good brain shot. But he is still holding his head up until the third shot. However on the last and fourth shot he sticks his tail straight up and maybe the fourth shot hit the brain?

Good ivory too! Described as "fantastic", I thought maybe 50 lbs but see the YouTube page says the ivory is 77 lbs, which is bloody good these days!

Interested to see what members here think. I don't remember my two cow eles "flinching" or "jerking" on the subsequent shots, but this bull does. Not knocking the guy in any way, just interested in what NE members think. Was the first shot stunning the ele with a near brain shot or was actually a brain shot? And/or subsequent shots?

Good shooting anyway and a very fine trophy.

I like the dudes are all hunting bare foot too.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD

Re: When did the Elephant Die ? [Re: NitroX]
#132882 - 20/04/09 10:03 PM

I have had this happen with a couple of elephants that I have killed. All of the appearence of a perfect brain shot, with the rear end collapsing and the head and trunk rising, but too much reaction from the elephant on the insurance shot/s.

I believe that answer is that the hunter's first shot broke the ball joint at the skull/neck junction. The later shot which makes the tail stand out and wave is the shot that brained the elephant.

My "autopsies" on two elephants that I killed which had similar reactions both revealed the broken ball joint, meaning the shot was just a bit too far rearward and/or a bit too low, depending on the elephant's head angle vs. the hunter's shot presentation.

In this video, since the shot was 100% broadside, the shot was only too far back, with no height element, but on a frontal or quartering toward shot, you can get the same results with too low a shot if the elephant has its head up. The bullet passes beneath the brain but hits the joint.

That was both a fantastic shot and a fantastic elephant!

Also, the hunter is lucky the elephant stayed upright. On a couple of occasions on elephant I have shot, the elephant has "twitched" enough on an isurance shot to fall over on its side.

Here is a photo of an elephant taken with a 20yd quartering on shot where the first shot broke the ball joint. The second shot was made while the elephant's head was up as it was collapsing, and that second shot went into the chest and out between the shoulder blades, breaking the spine between the shoulder blades. But, remarkably, as we moved beside elephant to deliver a side brain insurance shot from maybe five yards, the elephant moved his head a bit to try to see us. Boy, did we all jump back!

This elephant had 38 or 39lb tusks.

JPK

Edited by JPK (20/04/09 10:11 PM)

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bigmaxx
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Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.

Re: When did the Elephant Die ? [Re: JPK]
#132933 - 21/04/09 06:29 AM

Nice elephant John!

--------------------
One day at a time...

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: When did the Elephant Die ? [Re: NitroX]
#132951 - 21/04/09 11:26 AM

Quote:

77 lbs, which is bloody good these days!

Interested to see what members here think. I don't remember my two cow eles "flinching" or "jerking" on the subsequent shots, but this bull does. Not knocking the guy in any way, just interested in what NE members think. Was the first shot stunning the ele with a near brain shot or was actually a brain shot? And/or subsequent shots?

Good shooting anyway and a very fine trophy.

I like the dudes are all hunting bare foot too.

++++++++++++++++++++

Have only shot one-- if all works out, plan to go for a bull in 2010...but based on everything I have seen, done and read..agree--that first shot was not a brain shot---certainly locked him up though...and man, awesome ivory...very lucky hunter indeed...

JPK,

Had he been using a .416 with the better penetration, the first shot might have done better..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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NitroX
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Re: When did the Elephant Die ? [Re: JPK]
#132965 - 21/04/09 12:39 PM

Quote:

I believe that answer is that the hunter's first shot broke the ball joint at the skull/neck junction. ...

My "autopsies" on two elephants that I killed which had similar reactions both revealed the broken ball joint, meaning the shot was just a bit too far rearward and/or a bit too low, depending on the elephant's head angle vs. the hunter's shot presentation.

Good points and a probable explanation. The shots you mention are also why many experienced elephant hunters recommend shooting too low, rather than too high on frontal shots, as the ball joint or spine may be hit instead, if the brain is missed.

Obviously even if the ball joint was broken, the spinal cord was not as the tail still reacted to the fourth shot.

Nice bull too in your photo.

Quote:

But, remarkably, as we moved beside elephant to deliver a side brain insurance shot from maybe five yards, the elephant moved his head a bit to try to see us. Boy, did we all jump back!

A "Capstick moment".

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Ndumo
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Reged: 21/12/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Namibia

Re: When did the Elephant Die ? [Re: NitroX]
#133009 - 21/04/09 09:18 PM

I also recon that the first shot did not find the brain. I was close to the spinal cord, but did noit break it, otherwise the effect would have been the same as a brain shot (high part of the spinal cord that is.)
JPK, nice ele, BTW.

The ivory looks to me to be just over 50lbs, but if they say its 77, I will believe it. It is extremely hard to judge from video footage anyway. Very good for Zim IMO.

--------------------
Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd.
karl@huntingsafaris.net
www.huntingsafaris.net
+264 811 285 416

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shakari
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Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa

Re: When did the Elephant Die ? [Re: Ndumo]
#133055 - 22/04/09 05:08 AM

I reckon it's hard to tell from the video but these things always are. I wouldn't disagree with the above statements though.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com

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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
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Re: When did the Elephant Die ? [Re: Ripp]
#133109 - 22/04/09 03:10 PM

Quote:

JPK,

Had he been using a .416 with the better penetration, the first shot might have done better..

Ripp

He was using a 416! It was barrowed, as were his clothes (note the extra roomy fit?), since all of his luggage went astray. BTW, the rare example of a scope on an elephant rifle being more useful than tits on a bull.

Photos of the hunter, Anton, iirc, and Johnny Hulme standing next to the recovered tusks show their size. The tusks' proportions are so right that without a good reference they look either smaller or larger. Gonarhezhou elephants are very tall elephants as well. Johnny Hulme is not a small fellow, and that is a 500 he's handling like a toothpick!

BTW, the spine on my elephant in the photo was broken, whether by the shot that broke the ball joint or the subsequent shot that exited between the shoulder blades, who knows? But on the other elephant where I found the broken ball joint, it was not, and the tail's twitch and the leg circle signs of a brain shot began only with the insurance brain shot. And at that shot, the elephant fell from the upright to its side.

JPK

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: When did the Elephant Die ? [Re: JPK]
#133112 - 22/04/09 03:35 PM

Is John Hulme, David Hulme's brother?

David of course is/was a member here.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Ndumo
.300 member

Reged: 21/12/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Namibia

Re: When did the Elephant Die ? [Re: NitroX]
#133115 - 22/04/09 03:56 PM

Quote:

Is John Hulme, David Hulme's brother?

Yes, they are brothers.

--------------------
Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd.
karl@huntingsafaris.net
www.huntingsafaris.net
+264 811 285 416

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ADahlgren
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Reged: 17/05/09
Posts: 9
Loc: Sweden/North

Re: When did the Elephant Die ? [Re: Ndumo]
#135606 - 19/05/09 12:35 AM

Iam the hunter in this film and below can you see the shot placement

First shot is the purple arrow.

Second: in the heart/lung

Third: Yellow arrow

Fourth: Yellow arrow

77x68 18" around the lip.

www.zambezihunters.com

Anton

Sweden

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EricD
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Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636

Re: When did the Elephant Die ? [Re: ADahlgren]
#135618 - 19/05/09 03:03 AM

Anton,

Thanks for posting the pictures in addition to the video. It looks like you had a great hunt. I don't think many modern hunters have shot their elephant barefoot!

If you have hunted in Africa before (or after) that elephant hunt, I am sure that we would all enjoy hearing more about it.

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ADahlgren
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Reged: 17/05/09
Posts: 9
Loc: Sweden/North

Re: When did the Elephant Die ? [Re: EricD]
#135628 - 19/05/09 05:28 AM

Hi Erik !

I have been to Africa several times, my sister lives in Kongo/Kinshasa and have lived all over Africa,( Ivory Coast and Zambia amongst other) but i have only hunted twice in Zimbabwe(08) 21 days and Namibia(07) 18 days.. Both of them were good hunts but the one in Zim last year was the best ! 21 days after ele, buff, leopard and other plainsgame ! Im planning my next trip know ..Cameroon or Zim ?

Have you seen my huntreport from last year on AR ? Or else i can post it here.

PS. And the "barefoot style hunting" it hurt likes hell...My Swedish soft feet wasnt used to that =).. It was water and small streams everywhere thats why we skipped the shoes..But you can stalk those grey giants very quietly without shoes.

Take care

AD

Edited by ADahlgren (19/05/09 05:33 AM)

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: When did the Elephant Die ? [Re: ADahlgren]
#135640 - 19/05/09 11:08 AM

Quote:

Hi Erik !

I have been to Africa several times, my sister lives in Kongo/Kinshasa and have lived all over Africa,( Ivory Coast and Zambia amongst other) but i have only hunted twice in Zimbabwe(08) 21 days and Namibia(07) 18 days.. Both of them were good hunts but the one in Zim last year was the best ! 21 days after ele, buff, leopard and other plainsgame ! Im planning my next trip know ..Cameroon or Zim ?
AD

Curious as to what you were using for bullets--solids I know, but what brand and also what you experienced for penetration??

Thank you

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia

Re: When did the Elephant Die ? [Re: Ripp]
#135642 - 19/05/09 02:42 PM

Anton, welcome to Nitro Express Forum. I look forward to hearing more about your hunting trips.

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39877
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: When did the Elephant Die ? [Re: ADahlgren]
#135643 - 19/05/09 03:59 PM

Quote:

Iam the hunter in this film and below can you see the shot placement

Anton Sweden

Anton,

Welcome to NitroExpress.com. I enjoyed watching your short video of your elephant. Fantastic bull too.

Quote:

Have you seen my huntreport from last year on AR ? Or else i can post it here.

Yes please post it here.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DarylS
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Re: When did the Elephant Die ? [Re: NitroX]
#135694 - 20/05/09 03:05 AM

Well done, Anton - good shooting! heart/lung insurance shot - excellent - yes - well done.

Good fortune on your next hunt.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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