Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: 70K investment

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***
You are not logged in. [Login] Main Index · Search · Active Topics
New user · Who's Online · FAQ · Calendar

Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)
JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: 70K investment [Re: 4seventy]
      #133487 - 25/04/09 08:12 PM

I have always coveted a H&H Royal in .375 and a Westley DL in .450 to .500. To me these are quintessential English DRs suitable for hunting and with collector/investment appeal as a bonus. I may be wrong, but for their value to increase depends on 2 factors, the cost of new rifles and the condition of the older ones. For a new rifle to increase in value would require the rifle to be in virtually unused condition and for the price and waiting time for new rifles to put off impatient investors.

For older rifles, such as rising bite Rigby's, the investment value lies in their scarcity. While the name has been irrevocably tarnished by the Mexican efforts, a London made rising bite is a true investment piece due to their scarcity. No more are being made and they were costly to make to begin with. The Rigby name has also been immortalised in print and they were the originators of the NE double rifle. However, finding a rising bite Rigby in investment grade condition is very tough. There are many pieces that have been rechambered or rebarrelled, particularly the smaller bores, but I have seen very few exceptional big bores. That is why I am surprised that the 1902 mint .450NE that was recently sold at Julias didn't raise more interest. Credit crunch I guess, but the ideal time for alternative investments...
Purdeys are exceptionally made and the design has the nice feature of cocking on closing (whereas H&H and most others cock on opening) which means that when taken apart the springs are at rest without needing to be fired against striker blocks. However, I have seen very few large bores and would have to bow to other's expereince. The rarity, build quality and name should be sufficient to ensure investment returns, but you'll have to pay for it.

There are others of course, find a nice Jeffery under lever .600NE and it will put a smile on your face! A mint Alex Henry black powder DR would be fantastic too but good luck finding one! At the end of the day it boils down to condition and rarity. Otherwise, buy a DR suitable for hunting in the best condition you can, either new like a WR or if second hand then the earlier the better. Or some bars of Gold!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: 70K investment [Re: 4seventy]
      #133512 - 26/04/09 04:51 AM

Quote:

Quote:

There are prized for the calibres under 500, I was talking 'big bores' and all the H&H big bores I have had have come off face.




I'm interested to know how many guns you're talking about here.
Also what calibers were they, and from what era were they built?



Me too ???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I guess the pro ivory hunters were lucky !!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: 70K investment [Re: 4seventy]
      #133514 - 26/04/09 04:55 AM

Quote:

Quote:

There are prized for the calibres under 500, I was talking 'big bores' and all the H&H big bores I have had have come off face.




I'm interested to know how many guns you're talking about here.
Also what calibers were they, and from what era were they built?



5

577 x 2, 600 x 2, 700 x 1. All modern era, except 1 600 and 1 577.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: 70K investment [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #133515 - 26/04/09 04:59 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

There are prized for the calibres under 500, I was talking 'big bores' and all the H&H big bores I have had have come off face.




I'm interested to know how many guns you're talking about here.
Also what calibers were they, and from what era were they built?



Me too ???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I guess the pro ivory hunters were lucky !!



Easy Mike, smart arse remarks are for AR not NE.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: 70K investment [Re: ]
      #133521 - 26/04/09 05:55 AM





No offense to you Holland DR guys



Why don't you kick our favorite hunting dog, put a dent in our new car or criticize our family.....



What do you believe is the design flaw? Why wouldn't Holland correct it? What is Caswell's opinion on why your guns came off face? I would be one pissed off Maharaja, Nizam or Duke if my gun continuously failed after a handful of rounds. I have never owned a modern Holland, a 600N or 700N but my experience with the vintage H&H guns has been positive.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: 70K investment [Re: gatsby]
      #133526 - 26/04/09 06:29 AM

Quote:





No offense to you Holland DR guys



Why don't you kick our favorite hunting dog, put a dent in our new car or criticize our family.....



What do you believe is the design flaw? Why wouldn't Holland correct it? What is Caswell's opinion on why your guns came off face? I would be one pissed off Maharaja, Nizam or Duke if my gun continuously failed after a handful of rounds. I have never owned a modern Holland, a 600N or 700N but my experience with the vintage H&H guns has been positive.





I think the fix is a nice dolls head fastener, instead of the concealed bite. Again, I am only referring to big bore Hollands only. Caswell told me that it was a design flaw in his opinion, but did not elaborate beyond what I have already discussed. Yes, indeed I was very pissed off when it kept happening to me, I to like the romance of a nice H&H but for big bores it is not my choice of gun now.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: 70K investment [Re: ]
      #133529 - 26/04/09 06:31 AM


generalwar


that's not the first time I've heard that comment about the
CTB.

Which is why Webley's did so well on big bores (PHV1 and Screw Grip).

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: 70K investment [Re: 500Nitro]
      #133571 - 26/04/09 08:43 PM

generalwar, sorry if I was a bit flippant, no offense intended. If my .500 (due late next year) goes off face after 500 rounds (if I ever put 500 through it )I will be calling a big stewards !!! best, Mike

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Paul
.400 member


Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: 70K investment [Re: gatsby]
      #133577 - 26/04/09 11:09 PM

Quote:

Why don't you kick our favorite hunting dog, put a dent in our new car or criticize our family.....





Speaking of dogs, who was it on NE months ago who was asked by an H&H director why he didn't name his hunting dog after that company? I thought the answer was a joke at the time.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: 70K investment [Re: Paul]
      #133587 - 27/04/09 02:09 AM

Jabali, before I ordered the .500 H&H I always hankered after a Westley Richards droplock in that
calibre, 1920-1935, I looked for about 2 years but gave up after seeing a few that had been re-stocked etc etc. Thought about a new one and was then told a story which I will not write down since it would compromise the people involved but if I ever meet you at Holts or elsewhere I will relate said story, same goes for you generalwar, best, Mike

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: 70K investment [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #133591 - 27/04/09 02:26 AM

Another thing Jabali, have you ever handled a Purdey medium/big bore ? I got a shock, I went to
Hollands, handled a few Royals, went to Purdey down the road.."Sorry we don't have anything in stock, what we have is away on show, let me check downstairs " ..he came up with Queen Elizabeths' rifle, they made it and presented it to her on the coronation I believe. It was in .400 if I remember
correctly, beautiful weapon,it had a fantastic little aperture sight at the rear which folded
down into the tang BUT whilst it certainly was easy opening what a bugger to shut !!! I guess I'm
just a wimp but in a tight spot I'll take the easy closer. rgds, Mike

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: 70K investment [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #133668 - 27/04/09 11:04 PM

I have only had the privilege to shoot one that was converted to 9.3x74. I don't recall it being too stiff, but it wasn't new by any stretch! I'm guessing that HRH's rifle hasn't been shot too much... but cock on closing is always stiffer. I expect you were handling that rifle pretty delicately!

Perhaps we are too gentle handling rifles and guns sometimes - I was always taught to gently bring the stock up holding the barrels relatively still when closing the action, and always catch/guide the toplever with the thumb! You see people now jerking the barrels up and slamming actions shut with the toplever left to its own devices. Not for me though...

Are you having a round action built? I don't know what action modifications they incorporate but I imagine they will be pretty robust and tough. I'm looking forward to the pics!

I think I need to hear the WR story too

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: 70K investment [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #133675 - 27/04/09 11:31 PM

No Jabali, it's a .500 Royal. I am taking Pat from Hollands to lunch on the 26th May at the Guinea
behind Bruton Street, if you and/or Bramble would like to come along please let me know and I
will change the booking, lunch is on me, best, Mike

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: 70K investment [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #133677 - 27/04/09 11:41 PM

My mistake - looking forward to the pictures even more!
Thanks for the invitation. I'll check my diary and let you know. I have a feeling that its 1/2 term week and I promised the other half that I'd take her away for a few days...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Morten
.275 member


Reged: 24/04/04
Posts: 89
Loc: Ås, Norway
Re: 70K investment [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #136565 - 02/06/09 03:35 PM

Interesting thread. There are a few things that will need to be at place for a gun to be an investment. and when I think of investment i think of pure money. First is time, and then of course condittion of the gun. I have two excamlpes I found two guns for Holts and one was a H&W falling block made in early 80s it was a fantastic piece in unbeleavable condittion. I called m friend who is the barrelmaker and actioner at H&W and i found out that the the gun had trippled in value in 20 years. and a new one today was 5 or 6 times of what he then payed for it. Another was a Boss O/U 12 B (i know, its not a rifle) This one was also in mint condittion and practicly unshot. this one is doubled in value in 10 years. Another thing to look for is provenance. THis is also very valuable too the gun. The James Sutherland 577 Westley was estimated to 12-16000£ but sold for 60.000£ two years ago. what would this one go for today if it came up for sale again?? If it was mine I would not let it go for less han 80K buts that is because I think with the heart.
It is referaead to the THe queens 400 Purdey earler, wich is a realy realy nice gun, whom I have handled several times and is probably one of the best and beautifull guns I have ever handled, What is this gun's worth? And I see that some people here slag off Purdey Rifles. they are heavy yes, but they are not that hard to close, this is al about practice. and you realy gain time saved with the self opener. I know of some of the realy big gun colletors who collect new stuff from the big houses. One of these hunts a lot wth them and uses only Purdey rifles. and since Purdey rifles is so rare it makes itself an investment as well.

For an investment in 70K$ mark its hard to say what to get, but I am inclined to go with generalwar on a new WR. Otherwise for secound hand I would goo for a good condittion as pos Purdey or H&H. If you manage to get hold of one, and it is within you limit H&W is also good investment.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: 70K investment [Re: Morten]
      #136567 - 02/06/09 05:36 PM

Morten, I certainly wasn't slagging off Purdey rifles, that would classify me for a visit from the chaps in white coats ! best, Mike

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: 70K investment [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #136569 - 02/06/09 08:33 PM



A good way to invest, is to buy something one like..by that way you will keep it longer...

Spread the money (interest), and not put all the money on one spot...

Go for condition...condition is everything for longterm investment....

Have patience, and stalk the right gun. Do not go forsomething else less, because eager burns..
...in other words..don`t buy loads of crap and "hasbeens" junkers...too much of it, and
regardless how much one buy, the prices will never rise on junk.

The is always "someone" out there that will buy premium condition gun.

The market for junkers is blury..lots of wannebees with low cashflows, willing to substitute
welfarechecks / garage-iterms for your iron..

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: 70K investment [Re: rigbymauser]
      #136588 - 03/06/09 12:42 AM

The world is a very different place at the moment. Being in the financial markets I see some changes in the last two years. INMHO it is never a bad bet/investment to buy something you like and will use of high quality which has little depreciation but has the chance to go a lot better. Good seconhand doubles at the right price are going to keep your money safe, maybe not make a load, but keep it. In the meantime, you can use and enjoy them. It is a very similar market to vintage cars (not the whacky museum end). You can buy one, use and enjoy it and know when you go for the "long kip in the dirt" (thx Ripp) your wife/kids can sell it and live off it if needs be. best, Mike

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
333Jeffery
.300 member


Reged: 21/04/06
Posts: 103
Loc: Florida
Re: 70K investment [Re: rigbymauser]
      #136803 - 06/06/09 07:16 AM

Rigbymauser, there are some nice Daniel Fraser doubles for sale at Cabelas right now. I always thought Fraser made some of the nicest double-rifles, best looking, too.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: 70K investment [Re: 333Jeffery]
      #136804 - 06/06/09 07:19 AM

Quote:

Rigbymauser, there are some nice Daniel Fraser doubles for sale at Cabelas right now. I always thought Fraser made some of the nicest double-rifles, best looking, too.




Couldn't agree more.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)


Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Extra information
0 registered and 792 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  CptCurl 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 13648

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved