Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: 404 Jef.

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***
You are not logged in. [Login] Main Index · Search · Active Topics
New user · Who's Online · FAQ · Calendar

Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)
VonGruff
.400 member


Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: 404 Jef. [Re: Homer]
      #137942 - 25/06/09 07:50 AM



Could you pass on the details of your Linotype load for the .404 J please.
Like Mould brand & part# and powder charge etc?

HooRoo
From
Hommer

I designed my own bullet and sent the data to Hoch mould and Mr Farmer made a beautiful job of the mould although he was not very good on delivery dates and didn't supply the top punch I payed for.

Happy to send sample bullets so a mould can be made.

It is a 350gn Lino gas check and I have a accuracy load at 1900fps that has shot into .33 through the aperture of the bench at 55 yds. Norma case, WLRM, 63 gn 2209 ( H4350)

Same detail but 74gn 2208(Varget) for 2365fps and 1.1 in. This loadf is good for recoil recovery practice and getting the second and subsequent shots away, accurately.

Because lino is getting harder to get a hold of I also did a 90/10 WW and Lino blend and heat treated the bullet and with 87gn 2209 I got 2416fps and 1.1 in while 80gn of 2208 gave me 2485 but groups opened up to 2in. 79gn 2209 gave 2465 and 1.35in so that is a good standby load as well.



Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: 404 Jef. [Re: VonGruff]
      #137970 - 25/06/09 03:42 PM

G'Day Von_Gruff,

Thank you for the .404 Cast Bullet, reloading Data.
Thank You also for the offer of sending a sample bullet but I should be OK with this at present.
I will keep Hoch in mind when I get a bullet mould.

HooRoo
From
Hommer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
eagle27
.400 member


Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1165
Loc: Rolleston, Christchurch, New Z...
Re: 404 Jef. [Re: Homer]
      #138060 - 26/06/09 06:55 PM

Hi Hommer

Would like to attest to Von Gruffs cast bullets and load. We do correspond a bit starting from when I loaned him my 400 gr Hoch mould when he started his 404 building project. VG has been most helpful with sharing his experiences and loadings with the 404 and sent me a bunch of his 350gr gas checked projectiles to try in my 404.

He has done a spot on job of designing the bullet shape for the mould he had made. A beautiful looking bullet and boy does it shoot groups with his 1900fps loading. I used the same 63gr powder load as he, only in Nobels No 0 powder which is the equivalent of AR2209 or H4350. All three bullet holes cut together at 50m and right up to factory load POI. I also used magnum primers with a single wool wad over the powder. Great practice load, easy on the shoulder and the gun.

My own 400 gr cast projectiles are plain based and I never achieved great grouping from them but after trying out VG's 350gr gas checked ones I spun a shoulder on the base of a bunch of my 400 grainers (held in a collet on the lathe) and put on some 44 cal checks. Lubed and sized they now produce great groups as well.

Cheers.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: 404 Jef. [Re: eagle27]
      #138071 - 26/06/09 10:31 PM

Von Gruff;

Can you post a picture of your bullet?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
VonGruff
.400 member


Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: 404 Jef. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #138127 - 28/06/09 09:04 AM

I took a bore slug and sent it with the data. I wanted a bullet that would load to the same OAL as the Woodleigh so front of crimp groove to meplat was same as front of Woodleigh cannelure to nose. Meplat of .190. Radiused to bore riding dia over .250 so it would engage in bore upon chambering but wouldn't de-bullet if ejected. Gas check groove cut to allow the use of 44 cal GC. Drive bands to be .4245 so only 1/2 thou sizing to .424.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/404Jeffery076.jpg

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/404Jeffery052.jpg

I also wanted a bullet that would be usable for light game hunting as well. Seems to have worked quite well on paper so I know it will go where I point it.

Von Gruff.

(edit to add captions) the first pic of bullets is 350 @ 400 Woodleigh soft + solid.
350RWS soft and 400 solid.
My 350gn GC Lino
Eagle 27's 400gn PB
Barnes 350 @400 + 400 TS.

Second pic is Kynock soft and solid.
My 350gn and Eagle 27's 400gn
Woodleigh soft and RWS solid.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

Edited by VonGruff (28/06/09 09:11 AM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: 404 Jef. [Re: VonGruff]
      #138192 - 29/06/09 06:55 PM

G'Day all but in particular, Von Gruff and Eagle 27.

Thank you for all this info and also for the images of these bullets.

I've been away bush, huntin, shootin, and workin for the last four days with me Old Mate Toofa and we chewed a considerable amount of Fat on this very subject. We got to talking about Gas Checking 404 cast bullets and Toofa suggested .44 Cal gas checks which, Thank You Eagle 27 confirmed in his response above.
Now Toofa has all kinds of delightful things, including a .500 Rigby, that he had the Australian company, CBE make him a mould for. (I think CBE is an acronym for Cast Bullet Engineering?)

Now I would like you gents to make a comment on Toofa's suggestion for a .404 Jeffery mould, the details are as follows;

0.4245" Dia
400 grain (I stipulated this weight)
An LBT Nose with a 0.375" meplat ( also, LBT = Lead Bullet Technology, a US company?)
and
To take, a .44 Cal Gas Check.

Now a LBT Nose, apparently looks like the nose on an Elmer Keith pistol, Semi-Wad Cutter(SWC) but the bullet has no SWC shoulder!

What do you blokes think?

HooRoo
From
Hommer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

Edited by Hommer (29/06/09 06:58 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
eagle27
.400 member


Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1165
Loc: Rolleston, Christchurch, New Z...
Re: 404 Jef. [Re: Homer]
      #138196 - 29/06/09 07:45 PM

Hi Hommer

As you see from Von Gruff’s info and photo, his 350gr cast has a .190” meplat and quite rounded ogive and my 400gr has a .205” meplat with a more conventional ogive.

The concern I would have with the .375” meplat and “Keith” type profile would be getting proper feed from the magazine particularly if using a CF Mauser, where single loading is not really a great option.

Keep in mind also that the top punch for a lub/sizer such as the Lyman 450 would need to match or come close to the bullet nose profile. The top punch in my 450 just handles Von Gruff’s 350gr cast profile but I don’t think it would do a Keith profile. Obviously not a major to make up a punch that would though.

My cast bullets are sized .425” in the Lyman 450.

Cheers

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: 404 Jef. [Re: eagle27]
      #138199 - 29/06/09 09:21 PM

G'Day Eagle 27,

Thanks for that.

I didn't even think of how would, what is all but a Blunt Ended Object, feed out of the mag and into the chamber!!! That might work in Toofa's 500 Double but.......

Maybe Toofa and I drank to much when we were Chewin The Fat on this?
Strewth, it was only Mid-Strength Beer we were drinking and its the middle of Bloody Winter here at the moment!!!

I know, It's Global Warming and Climate Change combined!!! That's the reason!!!

Back to reality, I'll machine up some dummy bullets from brass, with different size meplat's to see how big I can go and still feed reliably from the FN's mag.

HooRoo
From
Hommer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

Edited by Hommer (29/06/09 09:24 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
VonGruff
.400 member


Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: 404 Jef. [Re: Homer]
      #138230 - 30/06/09 07:45 AM

On the feeding issue Homer. When I was using Eagle 27's 400 gn with gentle ogive it fed from my magazine with out fail but my mould would jump the round underneath out when ejecting a round. We had to mill the mag walls further forward to allow the rounder nose to sit further out under the side rails to hold it securely. It will do so now no matter how energetically the action is worked. I came to my data detail for a couple of reasons the first being the accuracy factor which is the reason for the shorter radius to bore length. The meplat sixe is sufficient to start any mushrooming if the alloy is compatable with the tissue being hit. The 44 cal gas checks were a factor in the heel cut and I got it as 350gn because that is more than enough for anything in NZ. It could be made as a 400gn simply by addind length as in an extra grease groove section. I had a number of top punches for my 44 mag so finding a match is no problem but simply by matching of the Lyman catalogue would get one close enough that with a bit of judicious opening up would make a fit.

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: 404 Jef. [Re: VonGruff]
      #138231 - 30/06/09 07:51 AM

Hommer

"Back to reality, I'll machine up some dummy bullets from brass, with different size meplat's to see how big I can go and still feed reliably from the FN's mag."

It's not just the meplat that affects feeding.

More so the angle of the bullet and the feed ramp angle
seems to have more / a fair bit to do with it.

Winchester Mod 70's in 458WM had a problem in that they would feed the 510gn winchester bullet but had problems with other brands.

It came down to having the feed ramp modified slightly on some guns so the combination of shoulder angle of the bullet where it curves and feed ramp works.

most problems with feeding bigger bores seem to be that it raises the angle of the bullet up too high so it jams into the back of the chamber instead of into the chamber.

That's just my HO.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: 404 Jef. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #138239 - 30/06/09 01:04 PM

G'Day Fella's,

Thank you for all your advice on my obviously poorly thought through Question above.
I realise now, that the Meplat needs to be smaller in diameter and correspondingly because of this, the Ogive needs to be more radiused, in cross section!

Thank You again!

HooRoo
From
Hommer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)


Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Extra information
0 registered and 121 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:   

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 14972

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved