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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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vegard_dino
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Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 262
Loc: From Norway, but living in Swi...
German double rifle locks.....
      #132172 - 13/04/09 05:40 PM



Hi all

I am as far away from an expert as one get, but I like to understand some more.

The Germans made some good double rifle/drillings, still do to.

But, they had some lock styles that was, I think, only made by them.

Some used clamshell body lock, a blitz action and so. Are that style gone today? If so, why?

Back then, when it was made, was it a good action/style?

Are the blitz action a bit like the round action?

Thanks for helping me out

--------------------
Cheers all, Vegard_dino

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peter
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Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
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Re: German double rifle locks..... [Re: vegard_dino]
      #132182 - 13/04/09 07:48 PM

dino

the blitz action is a triggerplate action where all the hammers and sears and triggers are connected on one plate.

the clamshell lock is a barstard to fit and commend less money when sold sold, so i havent seen them new ever.

best

peter

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Kalunga
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Reged: 16/06/06
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Re: German double rifle locks..... [Re: peter]
      #132186 - 13/04/09 08:22 PM

One of the best locks for doubles as well as one of the best actions have been designed by Thieme & Schlegelmilch, the Nimrod sidelock, the Nimrod boxlock and the Nimrod action. These great developments are now made again by Ziegenhahn & Sohn from Suhl. A short description can be read on their website :

http://www.ziegenhahn.de/en/produktion/flinten/boxlock-anson/

The Nimrod sidelocks are a construction most probably superior to the H&H sidelocks.
Maybe even better were the Sauer sidelocks, but unfortunately they are not produced no more and I am sure Sauer will never make such a quality again.

Kalunga

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vegard_dino
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Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 262
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Re: German double rifle locks..... [Re: Kalunga]
      #132189 - 13/04/09 10:07 PM


Hi and thank you for helping me out.
Back to the camshell, it was hard to fit, and all, but was it any good?

The Sauer sidelocks, when did they stop making it?

Thanks for the link about the nimrod.

The blitzer, or trigger plate action/lock, is not made today, I think. Why is that so? Expensive to? Or just not any good?

--------------------
Cheers all, Vegard_dino

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peter
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Re: German double rifle locks..... [Re: vegard_dino]
      #132204 - 14/04/09 01:18 AM

Quote:


Hi and thank you for helping me out.
Back to the camshell, it was hard to fit, and all, but was it any good?




it was a very good design, and if well made is was as tough as can be in a double rifle, if you can get on at a fair price, get it.

best regards

peter

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
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Re: German double rifle locks..... [Re: Kalunga]
      #132214 - 14/04/09 02:27 AM

Kalunga,

When you mention Sauer sidelocks, are you referring to those used in my pre-War Model 26 drilling?

I've never had them apart, but they function flawlessly and I am pleased with them in every way.

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vegard_dino
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Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 262
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Re: German double rifle locks..... [Re: xausa]
      #132217 - 14/04/09 03:17 AM



Thanks for all help!
I will take a clamshell lock, if and when I find one.
Guess it was drop to the higher price of making them, so now they are all gone and part of gun making history.

Well, not sure about the Sauer sidelocks, just asking to learn more about the German made double rifle/drilling and style´s they used.

You got a Sauer sidelock drilling?

Got a photo to?

--------------------
Cheers all, Vegard_dino

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450_366
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Reged: 17/01/07
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Re: German double rifle locks..... [Re: vegard_dino]
      #132219 - 14/04/09 03:41 AM

Clamshell actions was a great way of making a small and slim/light action for a high pressure cartridges, today they uaually make them big and clumpsy and people buy them anyway, so why bother with the extra job on fitting.

They Sauer sidelock is this the drilling with the double sidelock on one side?

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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vegard_dino
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Reged: 05/03/09
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Re: German double rifle locks..... [Re: 450_366]
      #132222 - 14/04/09 04:08 AM


Hi

Hehhe, well, maybe that is why they stoped making the clamshell.
Tru as you say, today we buy a big, clumpsy action, just look at today´s drilling´s and look at one from the 50´s or better a pre WW2 model...and you will se.

I amnot sure about the Sauser lock. Really sounds interesting..... Hope some can turn the light on for me regarding that one.
A, a photo will be great to!

Double sidelock on one side you say??
Interesting....have you seen one? Made as a double rifle to? Or only drilling?

--------------------
Cheers all, Vegard_dino

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doubleriflejack
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Reged: 11/11/07
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Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: German double rifle locks..... [Re: vegard_dino]
      #132223 - 14/04/09 04:45 AM

The clamshell action was made both in blitz and Anson and Deeley form, both forms seen infrequently today, so are somewhat rare, especially compared to other double rifle action forms seen today. Everything that sideclips will do, will be done better by the clamshell action. They are bolted by normal Purdey type underbolt and Greener type crossbolt, sometimes square bolt, rather than round. Prior to WWII, the Germans made many different "oddball" double rifle action types, generally seeking an improved lockup or bolting system. The Kerstan bolt, a double Greener crossbolt type, was used on both O/U as well as sxs, though considerably better looking on the O/U., making for a very strong bolting system.

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450_366
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Re: German double rifle locks..... [Re: vegard_dino]
      #132226 - 14/04/09 04:57 AM

I havent seen one in real life only in pictures, it was a drilling and had a double lock on one side and a standard lock on the other.

I can as usually not remember where but i will see if i can find it again.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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450_366
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Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: German double rifle locks..... [Re: 450_366]
      #132227 - 14/04/09 05:23 AM

Here is something thats probably what you have herd of.

http://www.gebrueder-fruehauf.de/bilder/bilderneu05/sus1.jpg

It looks as if the sear engages the hammer at the top so it gets a better leavarage and reduces the
power that is needed to disengage it. And it seems as if the safe grips where the "ordinary" sear grips on the hammer, i think anyway.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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vegard_dino
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Reged: 05/03/09
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Re: German double rifle locks..... [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #132250 - 14/04/09 07:14 AM



Hello and thank you doubleriflejack, good information.

Well, I understand, the Germans was really trying to find a better action, way to lock the double gun/drillings.
The Kerstan I have seen on some old photo´s, did not know it was German.

The blitz was a German to? Or a copy of the round action?

Thanks for helping me out

--------------------
Cheers all, Vegard_dino

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vegard_dino
.333 member


Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 262
Loc: From Norway, but living in Swi...
Re: German double rifle locks..... [Re: 450_366]
      #132251 - 14/04/09 07:15 AM



Hi and thank you for the link, good one.
Good information to me

--------------------
Cheers all, Vegard_dino

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: German double rifle locks..... [Re: vegard_dino]
      #132744 - 19/04/09 10:18 AM

Here is a link to a dealer in Fort Worth, Texas, USA who deals in a lot of German double rifles, drillings, and verlings! www.BobJonesGuns.com

The clam shell action body was as strong as any, and was latched closed by the standard under bites, and usually with a Greener cross bolt as well. The Kerstin is simply a Greener corss bolt with two extentions fitted into resepticals one on eather side of the chambers. This type lock-up was not common on Side by side actions, but was, and still is quite common on over/under doubles from Germany, and Austria. The reason the clamshell was mostly discontinued was they found that side clips did the same thing, with far less fitting.

The BLITZ action was simply made with all the lock work mounted on a removable trigger plate, but had nothing to do with the strenth of the action, but was simply a simple way to remove the complete striker, springs, and trigger from the action for cleaning, and lubrication. This was a real advantage for field cleaning. The Blitz actions or (DETACHIBLE TRIGGER GROUP) is still being made today in many custom German, and Ferlach made double rifles.
Here is a picture of a Blitz acion trigger group!



And another view!




--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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vegard_dino
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Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 262
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Re: German double rifle locks..... [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #132773 - 19/04/09 08:18 PM



Hi

Thank you for the good information and great photo´s!

Really help me understand more


Good also to know that the Blitzer is still been made

Thanks for sharing the photo´s

--------------------
Cheers all, Vegard_dino

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