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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

6.5 x 47 Lapua
#131546 - 05/04/09 10:20 PM

Just read an article in "RIFLESHOOTER" about this caliber apparently developed by Nammo Lapua Oy. Cartridge was developed specifically for long range target shooting...the project was originally started in 2005.

The article suggests it is basically a .260 Rem. Improved --has the same head and body diameter as the 308 Win..so one can rebarrel and use the same magazines, bolts, and actions...

Interesting test shows the cartridge is actually equal too or superior to the 300 Win for targets to 1000 yards with less wind drift and bullet drop..this is comparing a 190gr in the 300 Win and a 130gr bullet in the 6.5...article also shows the b.c of the 6.5 bullet was .620 and .53 for the 300.

Thx

Ripp

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JabaliHunter
.400 member

Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England

Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua [Re: Ripp]
#131641 - 06/04/09 09:15 PM

It is a seriously cool cartridge

It is shorter than the 260 which can suffer if you want to use high BC bullets because they rob the case of its capacity in some 308 length magazines. Its about 2/3 the length of a .308 or just about half way between the 6mmBR and the .308. I think it was designed for 300m CISM competition and has the advantage over the BR because the extra case length enables easier feeding from a magazine. It is apparently ideal for 600yard shooting according to David Tubb and the 6mm necked down case 6-6.5x47 is becoming very popular for 1000yard F class. I'm having one built as a stalking rifle because I think it is the perfect deer cartridge for the UK, including open hill stags in Scotland. The plan is to use 130 grain Scirroccos. The prospect of Reloder 17 powder is also pretty exciting. Lapua reckon it is the most efficient case possible on the 308 case head. Lapua brass, high BC 6.5mm bullets, benchrest proven powders, small rifle primer, how can you go wrong? I can't wait!!

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Tatume
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Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA

Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua [Re: JabaliHunter]
#131647 - 06/04/09 10:04 PM

Quote:

It is shorter than the 260 which can suffer if you want to use high BC bullets because they rob the case of its capacity in some 308 length magazines.

Moving the shoulder back also reduces case capacity, more so than seating a bullet into the powder room.

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Caprivi
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Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
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Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua [Re: Tatume]
#131652 - 06/04/09 11:37 PM

Any of the 6.5's are finally making there way in to the mainstream at the target range. Hopefully this keeps spilling over into the hunting public. We have been big .260rem fans since it first seen the light of commercial day. The T/C, Creedmoor and Lapua are all fine catridges. That said I will steer a customer to the 6.5scan or .260 for there cheap dies and brass. They both seem to have the "just right" capacity for the perforamce wanted with the 130-142 bullets. The creedmoor is just a bit slow and the .284 and rem mag case's have there on "troubles".

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
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Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua [Re: Tatume]
#131661 - 07/04/09 12:55 AM

That is very true. What I meant to go on to say is that reports suggest that despite a smaller case capacity, the long range performance if the 6.5x47 is virtually indistinguishable from the 260 but has the substantial advantage of burning less powder and using small match rifle primers (albeit not always an advantage in all types of rifle). I'll try and dig out a report that I kept somewhere comparing the two cartridges and post at some point.

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua [Re: JabaliHunter]
#131677 - 07/04/09 03:34 AM

Quote:

That is very true. What I meant to go on to say is that reports suggest that despite a smaller case capacity, the long range performance if the 6.5x47 is virtually indistinguishable from the 260 but has the substantial advantage of burning less powder and using small match rifle primers (albeit not always an advantage in all types of rifle). I'll try and dig out a report that I kept somewhere comparing the two cartridges and post at some point.

I have NO experience reloading any of these, YET..

But the article I read stated that the 6.5 Lapua had a longer neck than the .260 and therefore did not take as much case capacity for the longer bullets as in the case of the .260 Rem...

Is that correct???

Ripp

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Tatume
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Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua [Re: Ripp]
#131684 - 07/04/09 04:42 AM

Quote:

But the article I read stated that the 6.5 Lapua had a longer neck than the .260 and therefore did not take as much case capacity for the longer bullets as in the case of the .260 Rem...

This is the point of my statement. If we set the shoulder back and make a longer neck, the bullet doesn't protrude into the powder space. But, by setting the shoulder back we lose even more capacity.

There are good reasons for moving the shoulder, and the cartridge is a good one. But, the perceived gains in powder capacity are illusory. If the overall length is kept the same, and the cartridge diameter is the same, the cartridge with the shorter neck will have the greater capacity, even if the bullet extends below the shoulder.

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JabaliHunter
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Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua [Re: Tatume]
#131690 - 07/04/09 07:11 AM

The 6.5x47 does not have the same capacity as the .260 Rem. I don't recall anyone saying that it did. The case is about 3/10 shorter, but it does have a sharper shoulder and a longer neck. The problem with the .260 is that with 130-140 grain bullets loaded to magazine length, the base of the bullet is pushed past the point of the neck/shoulder and this can compromise accuracy. Admittedly this is extreme accuracy and from a light barrelled hunting rifle may not be significant, but it is still a factor. The longer neck of the Lapua round obviates this with all but the longest bullets (longer than 139 grain Lapua Scenars). I think at the end of the day the difference in velocity that should be achievable from like barrels is likely to be less than 100fps. The 6.5x47 is certainly capable of 2950fps from a 26in barrel and probably up to 100fps more using powders like RL17. That is not really a factor for me as I plan to use a 22in barrel with an Ase-Utra suppressor and will be happy with 2750fps or there abouts.

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua [Re: JabaliHunter]
#131724 - 07/04/09 10:50 PM

Quote:

The 6.5x47 does not have the same capacity as the .260 Rem. I don't recall anyone saying that it did. The case is about 3/10 shorter, but it does have a sharper shoulder and a longer neck. The problem with the .260 is that with 130-140 grain bullets loaded to magazine length, the base of the bullet is pushed past the point of the neck/shoulder and this can compromise accuracy. Admittedly this is extreme accuracy and from a light barrelled hunting rifle may not be significant, but it is still a factor. The longer neck of the Lapua round obviates this with all but the longest bullets (longer than 139 grain Lapua Scenars). I think at the end of the day the difference in velocity that should be achievable from like barrels is likely to be less than 100fps. The 6.5x47 is certainly capable of 2950fps from a 26in barrel and probably up to 100fps more using powders like RL17. That is not really a factor for me as I plan to use a 22in barrel with an Ase-Utra suppressor and will be happy with 2750fps or there abouts.

The info you gave is pretty much what the article stated..it stated the 6.5x47 will have higher pressures,,but the brass is so much better it seems to do just fine..not sure if I believe all that, but that is what the article said..also stated the 6.5x47 was running about 100 fps higher than the 260.per their Chrono'd tests..which is what you stated...again with higher pressures..

Ripp

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DuggaBoy
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Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua [Re: Ripp]
#131734 - 08/04/09 02:53 AM

If I recall the 6.5x 47 has a psi limit of 63,090
the .260REM is 60,000
and the factory loading on the 6.5 Creedmoor runs about 59,800

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA

Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua [Re: DuggaBoy]
#131741 - 08/04/09 04:01 AM

I have been using the 6.5-08 since 1958, when it was known as the .263 Express. My first one was created by opening up the chamber of a 6.5mm Arisaka with a .243 Winchester reamer, using a 6.5 mm detachable pilot. Despite the 7.5" twist, it shot 90 grain Norma bullets very accurately and accounted for quite a number of crows and groundhogs.

More recently, I have had two target rifles in that caliber, one a pre-War Model 70 and the other a post 68 Model 70. Both were exceedingly accurate out to 600 yards, but both had problems with rapid fire. I also have a hunting rifle in that caliber built on a 1937 Oberndorf Mauser action, part of a three gun trio of 6.5-08, .308, and .358, all stocked and barrelled identically, with identical actions and triggers.

The difficulty with steep shouldered short cases is that when used in a zig-zag box magazine like a Mauser or Model 70, as the left hand cartridge base is pushed past the shoulder of the adjacent right hand cartridge during the loading process, the tip of the left hand cartridge will often diaviate sharply to the right, rather than feeding directly into the chamber. With the extractor cut in the barrel cone in a pre-64 Model 70 or Springfield, this often results in a jam. With the push feed post 64 and Remington 700, in can result in a loaded round popping out of the magazine, neither a happy event in a rapid fire string, or, I submit, in a hunting situation.

As far as cases with small rifle primers are concerned, for years Remington has been manufacturing on a limited basis .308 cases with primer pockets for small rifle primers. I have used them successfully with my 6.5-08 target rifles when shooting at 600 yards.

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JabaliHunter
.400 member

Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England

Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua [Re: xausa]
#131752 - 08/04/09 07:19 AM

I dug out an article that compares the .260, 6.5x47 and 6.5 creedmoor. The author is a tactical rifle shooter and because his Accuracy International rifle has issues with small primers, he favours the 260 or creedmoor, but his conclusion is basically that there is no ballistic difference between the three.
Looking forward to the rifle shooter article - it seems to land on my doormat about 3 weeks after Ripp gets hold of a copy!
http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/?p=1

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England

Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua [Re: JabaliHunter]
#132536 - 16/04/09 09:32 PM

Well rifle shooter arrived a few minutes ago - quicker than usual. I see the article is by Zak Smith, as was the one from a year or so ago at the link I posted above. Will read it with interest - I had been toying with the idea of a 6-6.5x47 (basically a 6mm Swiss Match with a small rifle primer) but I think for a hunting rifle the 6.5mm gives a bit more versatility. I can't wait! Here's another article about the same AWP rifle by Zak Smith http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek084.html

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua [Re: JabaliHunter]
#132545 - 16/04/09 11:41 PM

Jabilhunter

Talked with a buddy this past weekend who has actually had one made up in this caliber--says it is awesome--he was going to get some info put together this week for me--plan to stop by his shop this weekend..might be kind of a cool caliber to check out...

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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