shakari
.400 member
Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
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Just arrived from SOAZ
From: Air 2000 [mailto:air2000@global.co.za]
Sent: 25 March 2009 11:56 AM
Subject: Transporation of firearms and ammunition
Importance: High
Sensitivity: Personal
Dear all,
After a long discussion involving SAA, various Airport Managers , security companies yesterday, the following has been agreed upon for the transportation of firearms and ammunition .
There is a new Airports Act that requires all luggage (domestic and international)to be screened. Here various airports are finding ammunition in checked bags that is not packed correctly. Therefore the passengers are being called back to unlock bags, causing delays to the departure of the aircraft and disgruntled passengers. The ammunition is taken out and sent out to the next destination in a plastic bag. This causes problems as passengers check their bags to the final destination on departure from say Port Elizabeth and passengers find themselves with ammunition and no where to put it, when they arrive in Johannesburg.
With immediate effect all firearms must be packed and transported in an approved firearm case.
(There are still people arriving and trying to depart with firearms in their checked luggage)
Ammunition must be packed in a lockable box with key and placed in the checked luggage.
Ammo found in checked luggage in a manufacturers box or just thrown in will be taken out and put into a plastic bag and sent to the next destination. It is then the responsibility of the passenger to get the ammo home, which he can't do if his luggage has been checked through to his home base.
There are two options here, either the passenger adheres to having the ammo put into a locked box. OR
They check bags to their departure airport collect bags and firearms, ammo in the plastic bag and then goes and rechecks onto the flight home.
I will keep you up updated on the changes to the Airlink flights and new departure procedures.
Many thanks
Kind regards
Anne Gaines-Burrill
Air 2000 (Pty) Ltd
Hunters Support Service
-----Original Message-----
> From: Danie Barnardt [mailto:DanieBarnardt@flysaa.com]
> Sent: 25 March 2009 02:16 PM
> To: Air 2000
> Subject: RE: Firearms and ammo
> Sensitivity: Personal
>
>
> I have no idea where the Zim issue suddenly comes from. Since about 2004
> there has been (and still is) an embargo from the EU (inclusive to the
> UK)for the transportation of any type of firearms from any EU member
> state to Zimbabwe. This unfortunately includes hunters. SAA however
> still fly hunters and their firearms on the provision that such
> passenger is not through checked to Zimbabwe from the EU or London to
> Zimbabwe. Such passengers are therefore required to terminate their
> journey in SA, clear immigration and customs and then check-in for
> flights to Zimbabwe as originating passengers. At the time and on a
> couple of subsequent occasions SAA have communicated this to industry
> and to date (except for now on) we have never had any issues on this.
> (We are sitting with a similar enquiry from a travel agency in the USA
> stating that Swiss advised them SAA doesn't fly firearms to Zimbabwe.)
>
> In my opinion, I think it is confusion within Swiss Airlines, as
> Switzerland only formally became part of the EU in 2007 or 2008 (not
> sure) and have not previously been restricted to this rule.
>
> To conclude, NO there is no truth to the statement that SAA does not fly
> firearms to Zimbabwe.
>
> Regards
>
> Danie Barnardt (AVSEC P.M)
> South African Airways
> Manager Aviation Security (Compliance & Quality Control)
> Tel: +2711 978 3479 or +2711 978 6522
> Fax: +2711 978 5933
> Cell: +2783 286 8250
> SITA: JNBNZSA
--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com
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NitroX
.700 member
Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 40649
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
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Quote:
Ammunition must be packed in a lockable box with key and placed in the checked luggage.
Ammo found in checked luggage in a manufacturers box or just thrown in will be taken out and put into a plastic bag and sent to the next destination. It is then the responsibility of the passenger to get the ammo home, which he can't do if his luggage has been checked through to his home base.
There are two options here, either the passenger adheres to having the ammo put into a locked box. OR
They check bags to their departure airport collect bags and firearms, ammo in the plastic bag ....
Evidently a "plastic bag" is the equivalent of a locked box. 
And suddenly the usual airlines rules of "packed in original manufacturers boxes" is not acceptable?
--------------------
John aka NitroX
 ...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"
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shakari
.400 member
Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
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Didn't make much sense to me either!
--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com
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Ripp
.577 member
Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
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I have always been told to keep the ammo in the manufacurers box if possible and then put the ammo in a locked box in my luggage..then let the airlines know--so if it gets checked it has the red/orange tag in there showing it was checked and cleared..
As I reload, I usually still put my reloads in a factory box...that is the same caliber..--if the ammo box, the actual ammo and the gun all match, can't see where the problems would be..
As to the plastic bag...what the hell is that going to do.???
Ripp
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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..
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Bramble
.375 member
Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
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Ripp
You are spot on.
The only problem seems to exist with people that cannot follow a simple set of instructions.
either take the factory ammo boxes or your handloads in an MTM type plastic case, stick a piece of tape on the lid to stop it opening.
Put that lot in one of those small ally "briefcases" availible in hardware store 8x6x4 will do as you can only take 5KGs (11 lb) max anyway, lock it and put it in the checked baggage ie suitcase, duffle etc.
Put your firearms in a airline aproved ally or plastic case and lock it. Put your knives, leatherman etc in there as well and yes the scope also because.....acording to US state dept export regs a rifle scope is a "Firearm Part" !! AR members take note.
Don't leave spare rounds in the pockets of your clothes. Guess how I know that 
Put a copy of all relevant paperwork tucked into the lining of the case. It is so much more convenient if there is a query.
Steve....
If flying into Zim becomes a real problem, will it be possible to fly into SA apply for a permit there and then drive into Zim getting a Zim permit at the border ?
Regards
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NitroX
.700 member
Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 40649
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
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Ammo in original manuf boxes is in a "locked box". The locked duffel or suitcase.
MTM caseguards for big NE cartridges would need a large tool box to be locked into.
Big NE cartridges don't have "original manuf. cardboard ammo boxes".
--------------------
John aka NitroX
...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"
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Ripp
.577 member
Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
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Quote:
Ammo in original manuf boxes is in a "locked box". The locked duffel or suitcase.
MTM caseguards for big NE cartridges would need a large tool box to be locked into.
Big NE cartridges don't have "original manuf. cardboard ammo boxes".
actually they do---you can use either Hornady or Federal ammo boxes for .470 Nitro which is what I plan to do next year if/when I head over for a bull ele in Zim..
As far as the actual locked box--I got a metal box with a pair of Swarovski bino's I bought a few year ago--had removable foam layers in it--took them out--works great--I can fit 3 boxes of .416 and 3 boxes of 300 Ultra in that one and be right at 11 lbs which was the regulated weight requirement last year and all the previous years I traveled..
thx
Ripp
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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..
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DoubleD
.400 member
Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2482
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
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Bramble,
The export license is needed for a permanent export from the US. A temporary export for personal use does not require an export licnes .
TSA has just issued a clarification on this subject.
Traveling safely with Ammunition
Additional information is found here:
Traveling with Special Items-Firearms & Ammunition
Of course this is U.S. requirements.
Airlines can issue even stronger restrictions and I think the lock box rule is an airline---SAA requirement. I know when I flew back from SA with ammo, they added tape to keep my MTM boxes closed.
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DD, Ret.
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shakari
.400 member
Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
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Bramble,
I'm no expert on Zim but wouldn't recommend driving any further than you ever have to there...... but I'm sure that SAA won't stop carrying ammo to Zim. All one has to do is make sure that the ammo is in a container or containers that keep every round separate from every other round and then put it into a separate lockable box. I've done that for years anyway and the box I use is one of those aluminum camera boxes with padding on the inside and lockable over centre latches on the outside.
The other piece of advice I'd offer is if you're travelling through the UK or any other EU state, to have two separate sets of tickets. One set to take you to and from RSA (or wherever) and another set to take you from there to Zim.
--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com
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ozhunter
.400 member
Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
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For year I have been packing my Ammo in a cash box as recommended by one of my outfitters.
Only last year my Qantas dangerous goods form stated that my ammo could be packed in the same bag as my firearm providing ether one was locked separately. Which I do as my Blaser is in a light lock up case in my Duffel bag.
So know back too locking both up separately...
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Ripp
.577 member
Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
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Quote:
Bramble,
I'm no expert on Zim but wouldn't recommend driving any further than you ever have to there...... but I'm sure that SAA won't stop carrying ammo to Zim. All one has to do is make sure that the ammo is in a container or containers that keep every round separate from every other round and then put it into a separate lockable box. I've done that for years anyway and the box I use is one of those aluminum camera boxes with padding on the inside and lockable over centre latches on the outside.
The other item I would make sure you do, especially in JoBurg, is make sure your firearms are on board before you get on the plane--either confirm with the agent or watch them load them or whatever it takes---when I went to Zim last year it was a persistent problem...
Ripp
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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..
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Bramble
.375 member
Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
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Oz Hunter.
Respectfully and for your own comfort, it dosen't matter what Quantas let you do. The firearm in one case ammo in another is NOT an airline regulation, it is an IATA regulation.
Quantas do not have the authority to override that regulation. If you transit through a hub and the case is examined or scanned it WILL be pulled off the flight.Unless it is a direct flight, it is not worth the risk and even then I don't think I would take the chance because the security of flights is done by the airport authority and not the airline.
DD It was a bit tounge in cheek. There is a thread in the other impolite place, discusssing putting scopes in the hand baggage. What I was getting at was that for the purposes of transport from, to, through or via the US, a scope is a firearm component by definition and must be checked in with the rifle. I understand the difference from a permenent export lisence. I apologise for any confusion I caused.
BTW for all . The 5 kg of ammo regulation relates to the weight of the ammo itself....not the packaging, boxes or flight case. And you can get 23kgs in a small ally case 
Regards
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rscott
.333 member
Reged: 21/03/08
Posts: 328
Loc: wyo., USA
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i've been flying for years, (2007 last time), with my spare scope in my carry-on. US to JNB and have never been asked about it or asked to open my carry-on. maybe that's a new regulation.
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Ripp
.577 member
Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
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Quote:
i've been flying for years, (2007 last time), with my spare scope in my carry-on. US to JNB and have never been asked about it or asked to open my carry-on. maybe that's a new regulation.
Not sure either,But I always wrap my extra scope in clothing I plan to take anyway for extra padding and put it in my double gun case---knock on wood, have never had to use it to this point, but none the less it is there if needed, rings, mounts and all...
Ripp
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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..
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rscott
.333 member
Reged: 21/03/08
Posts: 328
Loc: wyo., USA
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article regarding this topic. third person so accuracy is anybody's guess.
http://www.huntingreport.com/worldupdate.cfm?articleid=436
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MKresinske
.275 member
Reged: 23/02/08
Posts: 65
Loc: NY, USA
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Do I have this right? Going to SA, I lock ammo in a hard case, then I put it in my checked bags or do I check the ammo case as seperate baggage along with the gun case?
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Bramble
.375 member
Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
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correct with the first,
Regards
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