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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns
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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
12 bore 2 3/4" paradox
      #129601 - 15/03/09 06:58 AM

Weighing in at an impressive 9lbs-any guesses as to what load she would have used??

Many thanks

Ben

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peter
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Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: 12 bore 2 3/4" paradox [Re: empirevr]
      #129604 - 15/03/09 07:08 AM

ben

allthough this blind guessing can be fun, what about telling people here more about the gun or show some pictures.

or my guess will be in the lines of this: weighing 9 pounds, maybe a lot of drams !!!

you got the best knowlegde base in the world right here, but we all need more to go on than that.

best regards

peter

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gatsby
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Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: 12 bore 2 3/4" paradox [Re: empirevr]
      #129611 - 15/03/09 08:12 AM

There were only a handfull of common 12 bore paradox loadings, all centering around 1150fps, 100fps more or less.The Westley Super Mag being the lone variable. Rather than an overall weight; What do the barrels weigh? Who was the manufacturer and what date was it built?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: 12 bore 2 3/4" paradox [Re: gatsby]
      #129640 - 15/03/09 08:37 PM

My apologies chaps!

http://www.micksguns.com/double%20rifles.htm

Top gun.

I think its nice.....shame about the patina though.

Ben

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: 12 bore 2 3/4" paradox [Re: empirevr]
      #129641 - 15/03/09 09:06 PM



empirev

Are you getting onto this or can I pass the link onto someone else ?

If you want first crack, say so.

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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: 12 bore 2 3/4" paradox [Re: 500Nitro]
      #129642 - 15/03/09 09:33 PM

No you go for it Nigel

I am after something at Holt's

Regards

Ben

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gatsby
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Reged: 05/09/05
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Re: 12 bore 2 3/4" paradox [Re: empirevr]
      #129683 - 16/03/09 04:17 AM

Had to be made post 1899. Probably proofed for the 28gr or 30gr cordite load but need to see the barrel flats.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: 12 bore 2 3/4" paradox [Re: gatsby]
      #129685 - 16/03/09 04:59 AM

What would 30gr of cordite have given with the 750 grain projectile?

Its a 2,500 ft lb gun isnt it.

Ben

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gatsby
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Reged: 05/09/05
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Re: 12 bore 2 3/4" paradox [Re: empirevr]
      #129687 - 16/03/09 05:19 AM

Yes, but there wouldn't be too many surprises with a 12 bore paradox.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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jaz
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Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 188
Loc: Northeast US
Re: 12 bore 2 3/4" paradox [Re: gatsby]
      #129720 - 16/03/09 11:40 AM

When Holland made the normal Paradox 2.5", it weighed about 7.6 pounds. When they nade their magnum paradox 2.75", it weighed about 8.5 lbs.
Westley made the 2.5" Explora at under 8 and the Super magnun Explora 2 3/4" at about 8.5.

Loading for the heavy ones is challenging.... Velocities were in the 1250 - 1450 range.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27014
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 12 bore 2 3/4" paradox [Re: jaz]
      #129723 - 16/03/09 12:48 PM

The H&H (bottom paradox) is OK- but overpriced, I think. The other guns are in what I'd consider deplorable condition by the descriptions- having rotted away since the add was written. Since that is hardly the case, that outfit doesn't now what minor, moderate and severe pitting is. The 'good' bores (Henry rifling) of a lower pictured double have minor or light pitting, appearing to be full length - the top paradox of this thread has what I would call severe pitting just behind the chokes (rifling)- with deep and wide holes eaten into the bore surface, considering the thickness of the tubes at that point. I would not buy that gun for more than $1,000 CDN $ & then I'd probaby shoot it as-is and put up with the horrible leading and fouling at the muzzles. Wonder what the rest of the tubes look like? probably perfect in their description which would mean moderate pitting full length.
Maybe I'm having a bad day.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: 12 bore 2 3/4" paradox [Re: DarylS]
      #129733 - 16/03/09 06:24 PM

Quote:

Maybe I'm having a bad day.



knowning condition is everything + being experienced you can no longer deny truth

I have looked on Micks guns too...not very impressed either..atleast when price AND condition are compared.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27014
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 12 bore 2 3/4" paradox [Re: rigbymauser]
      #129763 - 17/03/09 03:25 AM

rigby- that's exactly what I was referring to. Thanks for the backup. I've had good luck with some pitted bores, especially with large calibres, less so with small, under 9.3mm. My 9.3x62 has light pitting one end to the other- indicitive of corrosive primers. Pits as seen in those guns, expecially on the outside - terrible! - neglect being the culprit. Getting a fair price is one thing, but deliberatly way overpricing and misrepresentation is not acceptable.

The trouble with pitting as shown, is the extra difficult cleaning job - more a chore - not being able to them perfectly clean means the pits just get worse - continually pitting under a coat of oil.

My 16 bore Husky was pitted more than the description indicated, but a straight rifled 13 bore on the right side, made the $175.00 price tag OK.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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