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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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BradW
.224 member


Reged: 02/03/09
Posts: 16
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Gibbs Farquharson
      #129187 - 10/03/09 12:57 PM

I have a Gibbs Farquharson action #178 that has been rebarrelled to 45-70. I have been in contact with a couple guys (one is Glenn Fewless I see on this site too). It is a MBL missing the original forend and side safety lever. I think I can make the safety lever and get the replacement forend to look good but it will need to be checkered to match the butt, The question I'm struggling with is the barrel, It is very nice and well done but not original, It would probably be expensive to replace with a new .461 Gibbs and harder to shoot/load but is the 45-70 the way to go or 45-100? or what? What would be the best choice? any ideas? arguments for or against any one caliber in particular? Thank you

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HuviusModerator
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3604
Loc: Colorado
Re: Gibbs Farquharson [Re: BradW]
      #129198 - 10/03/09 04:23 PM

Try these guys for the safety:

http://www.kwk.us/FA/

I know nothing about them other than what is on the site.
They do have Gibbs farq. listed below all of the pics.

Is it in sporter configuration or a target rifle?
If the barrel is a nice original style contour, I would be inclined to get the forend done, then the safety. I never saw much need for a safety on a target rifle anyway.
Shoot it as a 45/70 and see how you like it - would be very economical and would merely postpone your plan to return it to original configuration, which is commendable. Unless the barrel contour would be so different that you would have to get another forend done for the .461 barrel.

Oh yes, please post some pictures...

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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BradW
.224 member


Reged: 02/03/09
Posts: 16
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Re: Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Huvius]
      #129232 - 11/03/09 01:26 AM

Thank you for the info, The rifle is currently in sporter configuration and the barrel although nice is a heavy 28 inch round barrel that I'm pretty sure dosen't match what the original looked like. I would post pictures but have not learned how. It has been reblued so it would not hurt it to refinish the metal.

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belgmart
.275 member


Reged: 29/02/04
Posts: 78
Re: Gibbs Farquharson [Re: BradW]
      #129238 - 11/03/09 02:45 AM

.461 Gibbs would only be a problem as to the logistics - finding a reamer, purchasing the - expensive - brass, new barrel fitted and contoured. Loading and shooting it would be the easier part.
If MBL, it should have a straight buttstock, no pistol grip. If it has a safety, you could probably also make a nice back-position creedmore-style target rifle out of it (keeps one from blowing some toes off...)
Whatever you do, I would opt for a Brit cartridge - such an action deserves to be shot with a brit cartridge, and not something like a 45-70!

--------------------
Martini's Rule!

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Glenn_Fewless
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Reged: 08/05/08
Posts: 103
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Re: Gibbs Farquharson [Re: belgmart]
      #129252 - 11/03/09 04:45 AM

Brad:

While it would be nice to have the rifle chambered in a Brit cartridge, the least expensive alternative is to shoot it as the .45-70 it currently is. If I read your question correctly you are looking at advice on which .45- 70 based case would be best.

The .45-70 is a grand chambering and more than adequate out to 600 yards. I shoot it as the chambering of choice for black powder target games. Beyond that the .45-90 takes over and is THE 1000 Creedmoor cartridge. Any of the longer cases tend to be problematic with black powder and unnecessarily large for smokeless. If you intend to shoot smokeless there is no need for a case larger than the .45-70, as it will hold more smokeless powder than the action will.


Glenn

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HuviusModerator
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3604
Loc: Colorado
Re: Gibbs Farquharson [Re: belgmart]
      #129265 - 11/03/09 08:11 AM

I suppose you could order some .461 No.2 brass from Buffalo Arms. I did and they called me yesterday to let me know that it will be on their next shipment from Bertram.
link:
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,452.html

Then a reamer could be made to match the brass, or for a period correct measurement have a reamer made from a case fired in an original gun.

I just bought a Gibbs Farq. .461 Sporter. When I get it, I could take barrel measurements for you if you would like.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

Edited by Huvius (11/03/09 08:12 AM)

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BradW
.224 member


Reged: 02/03/09
Posts: 16
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Re: Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Glenn_Fewless]
      #129284 - 11/03/09 11:29 AM

Hi Glenn,
I was reading about a 45-100 and it got me to thinking of what calibers might be available to still use the barrel that is on it, If I could find an original I'd use that but I'm sure that's very unlikely, I'm still thinking about what to do. When I get caught up on some other projects I'll see what I can do about the safety.
Any other British calibers that are .458?

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kamilaroi
.400 member


Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...
Re: Gibbs Farquharson [Re: BradW]
      #129285 - 11/03/09 12:25 PM

Maybe 500/450 BPE or NE?

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HuviusModerator
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3604
Loc: Colorado
Re: Gibbs Farquharson [Re: BradW]
      #129287 - 11/03/09 12:59 PM

Quote:


Any other British calibers that are .458?



I'm not sure which ones are originally .458", but there are a few nice 500/450 variants to choose from.
The 500/450 No.1 Express is nice choice for both hunting and target shooting.

An issue with some of the Brit chamberings based off of a .450 case is rim thickness (or thin-ness as it were). This could be avoided by chambering up to a .500 based case.
I have noticed by my own measurments that my 500/450 No.1 cases from Kynoch have a .035" rim whereas the Westley Richards brass has a thicker rim very comparable to Bertram brass of the same chambering.
Unfortunately, by doing this, the extractor would have to be altered as well, or a new one made.
Apparently this was already done when the action was rebarreled to 45/70 so it has lost it's originality as far as that goes anyway. Problem is, if you eventually want to go to .461, it would be nice to be sure that the existing extractor could work.

Anyone here know for sure if the base diameter of the .461 is smaller/larger than the 500/450 variants?

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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HuviusModerator
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3604
Loc: Colorado
Re: Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Huvius]
      #129290 - 11/03/09 02:58 PM

Pictures of BradW's Gibbs:









--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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belgmart
.275 member


Reged: 29/02/04
Posts: 78
Re: Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Huvius]
      #129296 - 11/03/09 07:01 PM

Agree, forearm needs some shaping and the barrel sight looks very out of place - both literally and figuratively. And for a good, accurate Brit .45 round? Why, 500/450 no.2 Musket of course, my personal favourite! Going with a BN cartridge usually eliminates - after fireforming - any rim thickness issues, as you can headspace on the shoulder.
I use some converted Kynamco 500/465 brass in mine, which has much thinner rims - works just fine...

--------------------
Martini's Rule!

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kamilaroi
.400 member


Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...
Re: Gibbs Farquharson [Re: belgmart]
      #129299 - 11/03/09 08:47 PM

^^^
"forearm needs some shaping". Damned by faint praise I see.
And the rear sight is inconsistent with the original (FWIW an abomination of the original and the intent of what was once a match rifle)

FFS please, please do the right thing by what you are custodian of!!

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Gibbs Farquharson [Re: kamilaroi]
      #129300 - 11/03/09 10:13 PM

I'm puzzled kamilaroi, what do you propose ? That he restores the gun to original condition ? just asking, best, Mike

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kamilaroi
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Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...
Re: Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #129336 - 12/03/09 07:31 AM

Quote:

I'm puzzled kamilaroi, what do you propose ? That he restores the gun to original condition ? just asking, best, Mike




In short, at least reshape the timber to match the original that I understand was trim and short(er).
(though some match rifle fore-ends were vestigial at best).

Edited by kamilaroi (12/03/09 10:54 AM)

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BradW
.224 member


Reged: 02/03/09
Posts: 16
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Re: Gibbs Farquharson [Re: kamilaroi]
      #129339 - 12/03/09 07:50 AM

My plan is to make the forend look more like an original, I have the Winfer book on Gibbs so I have a pretty good idea from those pictures of what I'd like (almost anything is better than the 2x4 look). I'll try making a safety lever so it doesn't look like it's missing a part (also from the Winfer book) and then see about sights and or barrel. Glenn Fewless may have something for me that will work barrel wise.

Brad

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