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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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HuviusModerator
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Reged: 04/11/07
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Loc: Colorado
Selous Plates
      #128272 - 27/02/09 05:07 PM

Were Selous plates typically fit to stocks as a method of repair or as a preemptive measure
to avoid stock breakage while out on safari for extended periods?
I have seen Seyfried's .461 Gibbs with them but have also seen a .256 Gibbs Farq with them as well.
The .256 was in excellent condition and a broken stock was doubtful.
Were they offered by Gibbs or any other maker as an option on a new gun?

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peter
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Reged: 11/04/07
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Re: Selous Plates [Re: Huvius]
      #128284 - 27/02/09 08:42 PM

the plates were put on the gun after the stock cracked to prevent futher damage. if you were to far away from the factory to have it fixed at once.

the condition of the rest of the stock means very little, as only 3 weeks ago i and another member here were examining a really nice purdey with only one flaw. The stock were broken completly through the hand and the stock were in perfect condition apart from that.

i have seen quite a few repairs made with copper plate and screws that would make any self respecting gunmaker cry with agony, but that were done alot on safaris if the crack occured.

usually they got a restock when they came home.

peter

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JabaliHunter
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Re: Selous Plates [Re: peter]
      #128289 - 28/02/09 12:16 AM

It was a pre-emptive measure too as rifles could be ordered with this feature from new. I don't think anyone would have necessarily gone to the expense of having selous plates made and fitted (quite time consuming and costly) when the wood on early Farquharson's was not particularly special generally and could be replaced more cheaply. It is not impossible though...
Rifles with Selous plates are relatively rare and mainly on a few Gibbs rifles, although Winfer's book shows some others, including a Holland and an Evans - IIRC

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Kalunga
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Reged: 16/06/06
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Re: Selous Plates [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #128306 - 28/02/09 03:29 AM

Huvius !
I have found an interesting article in the June 1996 issue of "Magnum" that should answer Your questions:

"The Farquharson was Selous`s favourite rifle; Gibbs made several for him in .461 calibre (Holland & Holland also built him two, in .303 and .400/.375). Selous referred to his .461 in his writings as a .450, but while many Gibbs rifles were stamped .450, they were all .461 caliber."
"A weakness of the Farquharson was the system whereby the butt-stock was attached: the receiver had elongated steel tangs top and bottom which were screwed into the wood of the pistol grip. This was prone to breaking (most hunting in those days was done on horseback and falls were common). When Selous`s cracked, he sent it back to the maker and asked for steel side-plates to be fitted to the pistol grip area. Thus repaired, it turned out to be much stronger than the original, and never broke again despite falls and rough useage. Thereafter, when ordering new rifles, he ordered them with steel side-plates already fitted. Gibbs refused to do this, but agreed to send the newly made rifles to a gunsmith named Beasley who fitted side plates. They were exquisitely done, and the contours perfectly matched the graceful lines of the stock - a work of art. I have often wondered how comfortable they were to shoot after being exposed to the African sun for an hour or two !
The idea cought on, and other customers ordered rifles with side-plates, but these Beasley made out of copper. He agreed to reserve steel plates for only three customers: Selous, "Karamojo" Bell and Major PJPretorius (for royalty and nobility he used precious metals)."

Kalunga

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HuviusModerator
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Re: Selous Plates [Re: Kalunga]
      #128318 - 28/02/09 04:22 AM

Kalunga,
Thanks for the info.
Interesting that Gibbs wouldn't fit them, especially for a customer such as Selous!
I suspect that many guns were sent to Beasley for retro-fitting.
I wouldn't want to assume that every steel plated gun was made expressly for Selous, Bell or Pretorius...
I have never seen a copper example but they would be much easier to fabricate. Annealed copper could probably be hammered over the wood and then rolled smooth with a small english wheel.

BTW, is the rifle in the famous picture of Selous with the two Bustards actually a Woodward patent H&H and not a Gibbs Farquharson at all?

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Kalunga
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Re: Selous Plates [Re: Huvius]
      #128323 - 28/02/09 04:48 AM

In the article of Magnum,June 1996 issue, that picture is seen with a comment: "Selous with his Gibbs-Farquharson (as yet unrepaired with sideplates)."
BTW, another article dealing with Selous`s Gibbs rifle can be read in "The African Sporting Gazette", issue number four. There You can read that Don Heath from Harare owns a Gibbs Farquharson rifle that possibly was once owned and used by Selous. Unfortunately all records of Gibbs have been destroyed during WW2 but there are several indications that Selous might have owned this rifle or at least ordered it.

Kalunga

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HuviusModerator
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Re: Selous Plates [Re: Kalunga]
      #128325 - 28/02/09 05:08 AM

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say it is an H&H.
The trigger area is not like a Farq, and the forend style is not very Gibbs like.
I'm not sure of the model, but the lever bend looks more like an H&H too.
Any other opinions?


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bouldersmith
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Re: Selous Plates [Re: Huvius]
      #128428 - 01/03/09 01:03 PM

Holland Woodward for sure......as to the plates, my feeling is they were preventative in nature. The one Gibbs that I know about in a private collection is in outstanding original condition and has plates. To my eye they look like factor work.
Steve

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500Nitro
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Re: Selous Plates [Re: bouldersmith]
      #128434 - 01/03/09 02:38 PM



It's been documented that it is a Holland.

I think the problem was people assumed it was a
Gibbs and kept publishing that.

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