Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: [NEW] The RBL Professional

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)
Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: CptCurl]
      #126968 - 14/02/09 08:56 AM

A while back I got a 32Ga Dart rifle & I had once seen some esle rechamber one to 50/90 ? ?
so I got some Brass Mag Tec 32Ga case's & loaded 50/90 loads in it & it works well , but only with light bullet because of slow twist ! & it also shots 32Ga shot shells , but not for Ducks !


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JPK
.375 member


Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: ChrisPer]
      #126970 - 14/02/09 09:32 AM

Quote:

Just for information, is it so that the shotgun-only states put that law up because they felt that a load of buckshot is safer for other hunters at a distance than a 30-30 rifle projectile? If so, how is it that a 20g rifle with solid ball is acceptable, when penetration and 'carry' of projectiles must be similar to the rifle?




CrisPer,

In my state, about 2/3rds of which is shotgun only (and growing), buckshot is limited to use in only a small portion of the state where big social deer drives are a local custom. Elsewhere it is prohibitted because it just isn't all that effective except at spitting distance, where it is very effective. It just looses that lethality very quickly - a good thing for social deer drives in thick underbrush, a bad thing for the deer some yahoo shoots at too long range.

So most of our state is limited to lead, near bore diameter " rifled slugs" that fly "straight" only because they have the weight distribution of a badmiton shuttlecock and which have no rotation in flight. These were an advance over the "pumpkin ball", which is just a near bore diameter ball seated in a shotgun hull. Both are for using smooth bore shotguns to hunt deer. Both propel thier "bullets" at about typical shotgun velocity. I'm not old enough at 47 to have experience with pumpkin balls, but I do have experience with so called rifled slugs, They are effective as hell at short ranges. Some regular shotguns shot them well some didn't. But I'd say that most were plenty good shooting enough for 30yds.

Then cam smooth bore shotguns equipped with rifle sights. Again some shot better than others and some rifled slug loads shot better as well - ussually the largest diameter slugs, no suprise. Range was extended to maybe 50-75yds. Very effective terminal performance, ranging from bore diameter holes through and through to 2" flattened disks inside the offside hide. Either way, decent shot = dead deer.

Then came rifled slug barrels. Early results with the rifled slugs equalled more consistent performance but not a heck of a lot of range improvement, call it 75yds, but reliably so. Then slug development lead to first full diameter slugs designed to take the engraving, now 100yds, then sabots and sub bore hard lead "bullets", maybe 110yds but poor terminal performance compared to the full diameter slugs, and no expansion due to their hardness. On to more advanced expanding sabot "bullets". And here we are today, "bullets still evolving, but incrementally, at about 125-150yds capability and good, reliable terminal performance.

In my area, the 20ga is the hot ticket because of its flatter trajectory, and guys are pushing past 150-175yds with very specialized 20ga "rifles" shooting tipped semi streamlined sabot bullets.

As an alternative to shotguns, muzzleloaders have always been a legal choice for both their own season and for the firearms season. The evolution with the muzzleloaders has been similar to that of deer hunting shotguns. Few cap locks, fewer flintlocks, almost gone from the woods, along with lead round balls and to a lesser extent, lead conicals. Many more inlines and many more sabotted bullets, some pistol bullets, some special designs for the purpose. Velocities are through the roof compared to old round ball or conical shooting, ranges are extended, but not so much as the change in shotgun ranges. Terminal performance is reliable and as good as the round balls or conicals but even at the longer ranges.

We have a deer population problem, and the state game dept has gone along with all of the "advances" (some will argue that term) because they improve efficiency, now just as earlier firearms development did, and allow more hunters to kill deer.

Now I'll tell you that I prefer hunting in a rifle area, but that is entirely because, up to now, just about every slug gun option was a truly utilitarian, soul less weapon, where as my rifles have souls and beauty and worksmanship beyond mere utility (at least most of them) and I am hunting for the whole experience and not just to kill a deer. Other options have existed, for example the paradox type guns, but they were just not practical. But, in hind sight, it was only amatter of time until some more than utilitarian options were brought to the market. This is not the first fully rifled shotgun/slug gun to hit the market, but other have had there problems. Hopefully this one won't!

As far as effectiveness, in the thick areas, there is no loss slug gun to rifle. And less and less in more open areas. The advance of the slug guns and their projectiles has all but doomed any hope that we might see a reversal of the creep of slug gun only regulation. That hope might have rested in the need to kill more deer. Advances in slug guns and muzzleloaders make rifles only marginally more effective for a lot of hunting, so there is no need for the game depts to fight the legislators and publics perceptions of very limited range with shotguns and muzzleloaders. At the same time, we won't be seeing the game depts advocating to limit advancements, which would prove counterproductive to their goal of killing deer.

My thoughts,

JPK


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jaz
.300 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 188
Loc: Northeast US
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: JPK]
      #126981 - 14/02/09 01:10 PM

JPK - Well done summation. As a NJ resident I have hunted with exactly the weapons you described, in that order, since 1971. I love the English double bore rifles and Paradox guns. I am sure this evolved from my shotgun only for deer experiences.

I have have shot deer here with both 10 and 12 Paradoxes. My eyes started deteriorating badly so I needed a scoped gun. I took a hammer single shot Damascus Cogswell and Harrison 12 bore shotgun and lined it with a Hastings 20 bore rifle barrel at 26". I then had Talley 7/8" bases milled into the barrel flat and scoped it with a Lyman Alaskan. Shooting Hornady sabots, groups are under 2" at 100 yards. Very effective and I still feel a bit of nostaglia.

Good Luck to CGM on the Proffessional. Great idea, with a set of shotgun barrels , a great combo.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: jaz]
      #127002 - 14/02/09 06:15 PM

Quote:

These were an advance over the "pumpkin ball", which is just a near bore diameter ball seated in a shotgun hull. Both are for using smooth bore shotguns to hunt deer. Both propel thier "bullets" at about typical shotgun velocity. I'm not old enough at 47 to have experience with pumpkin balls, but I do have experience with so called rifled slugs, They are effective as hell at short ranges. Some regular shotguns shot them well some didn't. But I'd say that most were plenty good shooting enough for 30yds.

Then came smooth bore shotguns equipped with rifle sights. Again some shot better than others and some rifled slug loads shot better as well - ussually the largest diameter slugs, no suprise. Range was extended to maybe 50-75yds. Very effective terminal performance, ranging from bore diameter holes through and through to 2" flattened disks inside the offside hide. Either way, decent shot = dead deer.

Then came rifled slug barrels. Early results with the rifled slugs equalled more consistent performance but not a heck of a lot of range improvement, call it 75yds, but reliably so. Then slug development lead to first full diameter slugs designed to take the engraving, now 100yds, then sabots and sub bore hard lead "bullets", maybe 110yds but poor terminal performance compared to the full diameter slugs, and no expansion due to their hardness. On to more advanced expanding sabot "bullets". And here we are today, "bullets still evolving, but incrementally, at about 125-150yds capability and good, reliable terminal performance.

In my area, the 20ga is the hot ticket because of its flatter trajectory, and guys are pushing past 150-175yds with very specialized 20ga "rifles" shooting tipped semi streamlined sabot bullets.

As an alternative to shotguns, muzzleloaders have always been a legal choice for both their own season and for the firearms season. The evolution with the muzzleloaders has been similar to that of deer hunting shotguns. Few cap locks, fewer flintlocks, almost gone from the woods, along with lead round balls and to a lesser extent, lead conicals. Many more inlines and many more sabotted bullets, some pistol bullets, some special designs for the purpose. Velocities are through the roof compared to old round ball or conical shooting, ranges are extended, but not so much as the change in shotgun ranges. Terminal performance is reliable and as good as the round balls or conicals but even at the longer ranges.

We have a deer population problem, and the state game dept has gone along with all of the "advances" (some will argue that term) because they improve efficiency, now just as earlier firearms development did, and allow more hunters to kill deer.

Now I'll tell you that I prefer hunting in a rifle area, but that is entirely because, up to now, just about every slug gun option was a truly utilitarian, soul less weapon, where as my rifles have souls and beauty and worksmanship beyond mere utility (at least most of them) and I am hunting for the whole experience and not just to kill a deer. Other options have existed, for example the paradox type guns, but they were just not practical. But, in hind sight, it was only amatter of time until some more than utilitarian options were brought to the market. This is not the first fully rifled shotgun/slug gun to hit the market, but other have had there problems. Hopefully this one won't!

As far as effectiveness, in the thick areas, there is no loss slug gun to rifle. And less and less in more open areas. The advance of the slug guns and their projectiles has all but doomed any hope that we might see a reversal of the creep of slug gun only regulation. That hope might have rested in the need to kill more deer. Advances in slug guns and muzzleloaders make rifles only marginally more effective for a lot of hunting, so there is no need for the game depts to fight the legislators and publics perceptions of very limited range with shotguns and muzzleloaders. At the same time, we won't be seeing the game depts advocating to limit advancements, which would prove counterproductive to their goal of killing deer.

My thoughts,

JPK




Interesting take on round balls, JPK. It only addresses the use of the much undersized round ball loads of the 40's and early 50's which weren't accurate - yes before yours and my time as well. Today, we know how to load round balls in smoothbore shotguns such as having a good deer range of 60 to 80 yards - however it is probably too late for not using such & rifled slugs wiht limited range will result in the loss of shotgun-only fields of fire, as has the proliferation of undersized sabot slugs in fully rifled barrels in some parts of the States. Sooner or later, game branches will find out many of the loads currently being used in pump and autoloaders possess most of the down-range attributes of the varous black powder buffalo rounds in .50 cal. Initially making the seasons for buck shot, round balls and even Foster-type slugs was to deliver some protection to down-range livestock and farms. When the idiots finally recognise they are allowing people to sling 440gr., .50 cal bullets at 1,400fps throughout the bush and farmland, another 'season' will go by the board. Afterall, the longest shot taken with a rifle by a US citizen on another man prior to perhaps the Korean or even VietNam war, was made by Billy Dixon at Adobe Walls trading post, with the same ballistics I noted above; 440gr. bullet, about 1,400fps muzzlevelocity, range 1,538 yards.

The sabot slinging modern 'muzzleloaders', bolt actions, most, have aready resulted in the cancelling of special 'primitve' weapons hunts here. What's primitive about a bolt action, scoped rifle, that can be loaded from the muzzle - and now, an add I saw about a 'convertable', muzzleloading/breech loading rifle for ALL seasons. I guess if people who are looking for an easy way to fill freezers will buy it, some outfit will make it and advertize it as a cure-all. They'll even get 'emplyees' to say nothing else will kill game.
With luck, your shotgun only season may be replaced with REAL muzzleloading seasons for patched round ball and side locks. We find most people who will hunt with these weapons are true hunters, are 90% successful in game plentiful areas and are ones who respect game laws for not only what they are but for what they were intended to be.

Those are my thoughts.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Birdhunter50
.375 member


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: DarylS]
      #127046 - 15/02/09 01:48 AM

Gentlemen,
Here is my answer to the RBL. This is a converted 16gauge FN sidelock, now 20 gauge, rifled 1 in 20, with 20 inch barrels, it weighs in at 6 1/2 pounds with red dot scope attached. It will shoot 1 inch right/left groups at 25 yards or about as far as you want to shoot if you can hold it right. The upwards recoil is brisk but manageable. The scope is a fourth generation Aimpoint. The rib was drilled and taped in three locations so that a conventional scope can be used in the regular position or either of the sights can be mounted in the forward "scout rifle" position.







Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #127050 - 15/02/09 02:03 AM

Birdhunter:

Great solution to a vexing problem.

What load do you use?

Something came to mind.

I believe if I had a gun set up I'd want it set up to a load of my own concoction with components that had been around for a long time or ones that were cheap enough to stockpile specifically for the gun.

My concern would be that the way factories are constantly changing loads, especially in shotgun gauges, the load I regulated my gun for would be discontinued!

Some factory loads might be difficult to duplicate as a handload.

A good home-brewed RB load as Daryl has discussed would seem to be a good option, eliminating the possibility that "product improvements" could leave a guy in high weeds with a gun the is crosseyed.

Of course, the adjustable barrel jobs preclude this.

Thoughts?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JPK
.375 member


Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: DarylS]
      #127056 - 15/02/09 02:39 AM

Daryl,

Your post amounts to quite an attack on hunters who choose to use recently developed, more convenient and efficient firearms in this niche. I think your inference that fellows who choose to use recently developed and legal firearms are not true hunters and are scofflaws is ridiculous and rude as well.

I suppose that if you had been alive in the 1800's when workable breach loaders were developed you would have found their proponents poor hunter and unsportsman like scoff laws as well, eh?

And those know nothings that developed the top lever, just a bad sort.

And before that, it was just wrong to rely on the cap lock and its more ready ignition than to endure the flint lock.

But then the flintlock was a truly unreasonable advancement over the match lock, wasn't it?

Likewise as hammer guns were replaced by hammerless guns.

The development of cordite would have made you appoplectic, I'm sure.

Jeez, the development of jacketed bullets and their unsportsmanlike proponents, what to do, eh?

But really, rifling a barrel just adds way to much accuracy and range, doesn't it, so unsporting, eh? Only suitable for a scofflaw no doubt.

Oh, Lord, please no antomony in shot, and hell no to shoutgun wads. What a no good son of a gun to have discovered the shotgun choke!

Adjustable sights on rifle, what cad would do that!

Yipes, scoped rifles, how dare you heathens!

Good forbid any one use a brass cartridge with a non corosive primer. And those corosive primers are a wrongful advance over the good 'ol pinfire, what?

Damn those paper and then plastic shotshells, only brass will do!

How dare anyone actually use a repeating firearm, those lever actions are an unsporting abomination, and damn Paul Mauser!

JPK

Edited by JPK (15/02/09 02:44 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JPK
.375 member


Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: JPK]
      #127057 - 15/02/09 02:47 AM

BirdHunter,

Nice deer hunting rig! What do you shoot in it?

Who id the rifled barrels for you?

JPK


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Birdhunter50
.375 member


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: 9.3x57]
      #127058 - 15/02/09 02:51 AM

9.3x57,
Those were some of my concerns as well, so I regulated this using the 20 gauge Lyman cast hourglass shaped slugs, loaded into Winchester AA hulls with AA shotwads and 21.0 grains of Universal Clays powder. I can make them out of dead soft lead because the slugs are protected from the rifling by the wads. I also shot some double round ball loads in it with 15% reduction in the powder, (I found that the two round balls weighed 15% more the the slugs I was shooting in it).
Usually, one of the round balls would go about where the sights were aimed but the other would vere off to the side a bit.

The Lyman slugs were specially prepaired and weighed 385 grains when poured with soft lead. The two .535 round balls weighed 450 grains. Either load would be devistating to anything hit with it. The loading data comes with the Lyman mold to make the slugs and I found that by cutting off the crimped area and roll crimping them, I got a better and more uniform load. I bought the roll crimper from Ballistic Products in Minn. I also roll crimped the round ball loads, this way I can see instantly what load I have in my hand. All these components are readily available and should be for some time. Anyone who thinks they can just go and buy the new sabot slugs, or any other for that matter, and have them be regulated in their double gun and shoot to the point of aim, is in for a big surprise. Rolling your own is manditory if you want to shoot a double barrel slug gun. I have found that they are just as picky, maybe even more so, than any other double rifle. You must pick a load and stay with it. Mine as solder tightly together and there is no moveable regulating wedge on it.

This is the second 20 gauge slug gun I have built and I have the third one about 3/4 done. Here in Iowa, we still have some shotgun only seasons and most of our shots are 50 yards or less in timber, so I figured this was a natural answer to a limitation put on us by the State. I first checked with my local game warden to make sure it would be legal to hunt with. He told me that 20 gauge was the minimum size and that rifled barrels of 20 gauge were legal, so off I went and built the first one. They make a great deer hunting tool. Lightweight and fast shooting.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Birdhunter50
.375 member


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #127059 - 15/02/09 03:01 AM

JPK,
The rifled barrels were ordered as full size blanks and then I turned them to size and monoblocked them. For the load info, see the above post. This makes a great deer/hog hunting
gun. Light and fast handling and I have never found the 20 inch barrels to be a handicap. The load data lists this load at slightly over 1400 FPS and I chronographed some out of these barrels at just over 1350. I know that is slow by double rifle standards, but if you compare it to other deer slug loads, that is darned respectable. No deer have gotten up to complain about it going too slow, yet.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #127061 - 15/02/09 03:05 AM

Birdhunter, great stuff!!

I really see the possibilities for a big market for doubles here. The USA has the largest market for sporting guns in the world, and the double gun is a product that has great potential in it. Virtually legislator-proof, totally functional, very attractive and more or less, from a total market perspective, unknown. Opportunities abound!!

Like JPK has said, there are lots of really effective deer guns out there, but how many reflect function AND artistic desing/eye appeal? Few.

Birdhunter, thanks for posting. Really neat gun and very nice work. Thanks for the load info, too. Great way to respond to the ball & chain of silly legislation.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Caprivi
.375 member


Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: 9.3x57]
      #127063 - 15/02/09 03:34 AM

Great response JPK, Sooner or later I knew this would turn into a contest of whose dick is bigger. Amazing when the hunting whole world is under assault we still can find time to be picking fly shit out of the pepper. Boogles the mind.

If I may interject slightly here and again of topic as this thread is about a Gun............The targeted market (has anyone here talked to Tony as I have ??????) is for the upscale market on the eastern seaboard of the United States. If an Aussie wants to buy one I sure they can....:) Even if someone in the big timber of B.C. wanted to get one I would be all for it. More the merrier.

Now with the targeted market, this is an area of huge Whitetailed Deer over population. If you don't live there you think you know what it is like, trust me you don't know anything. You have no conception of what 700 deer to the acre looks like in winter, as was our farm land in Pa. That was a 70 acre alfafa field with a 40 acre woodlot strip. Do the math. This was a Game & Fish Commission survey. I moved to Wyominfg for a reason. Now complecate this with the fact that there is next to no access to hunting ground. So when deer are actually in a place where you can harvest them, you have damn well have the right tools to do the job. The best possible, rifle, scoped, muzzleloader or shotgun capable of 150yds. It is not about sport, or preserving the Roberts Rules of hunting or how noble Bambi's Dad was at the last second before I sunk my lance. It is about managment and numbers harvested by the best means possible. If your firearm looks good during it, all the better.
This part of the country needs these animals removed by any means in huge numbers. Most cities have/had paid shooters removing deer. Most areas have piles of available tags.

Now back to the gun and some legislation, as with any beaurcracy once something is in place it will not be "eased" up, it will only become more restrictive. They deemed the shotgun as the "safe" hunting tool, nonsense but it is the law. So along comes anyone with a brain who is going to push that law to the max. It is still a shotgun and it is still legal. This is the same game with inline muzzleloaders that so many seem to hate. I don't get it at all. Who cares, it is a means to an end. I Hunt with center fire scope rifles, some capable of moa groups at 800+ yards. It is the best tool for the job. Why would you want to restrict anybody's choice.

But then again this is just the opinion of a working class Peasant living in a break away colony of only 233 years aged. I am sure I can become snobbier as time goes by.

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: Caprivi]
      #127086 - 15/02/09 07:36 AM

Obviously you have too many deer in a small area. Why aren't rifles allowed? Here, a double barreled gun with rifling full length is a rifle, not a shotgun. Here a rifled single barrel gun is a rifle, not a shotgun. Shotgun only areas, as I noted, are regulated as such to provide safety for surrounding farms, livestock and people. How is it that a rifled gun, capable of sending bullets well over 1,000 yards, is considered a safe gun for settled areas?

The fully rifled arms aceptance by hunters is responisble for cancelling hunting seasons here. Inline muzzleloaders were responsible for cancelling black powder "primitive" seasons here. I know of hunters who bought inlines only because they promised instant accuracy and scope sights with no practise needed & extended the hunting season 3 weeks as they weren't good enough hunters to get a moose during the 2 month season.

I've read US gun magazines which stated some shotgun-only seasons were cancelled due to the scope-sighted rifled shotgun/sabots hitting the market and being used in areas which were 'range/distance' sensitive. The seasons were labeled shotgun-only due to range sensitiveness of the areas. Too highly settled to allow centrefire rifles - yet your area in question seems to allow/promote long range rifled shotguns in shotgun only areas - bit of a contradiction is all.

Even though I'm not a US citizen, I still thought I had a right to an opnion.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: DarylS]
      #127091 - 15/02/09 08:14 AM

Opinions vary.

Daryl is right about in-lines being used as a political football. We have had three years of uproar over them and just got it ironed out.

The perspectives of folks in different areas vary.

I grew up in New Jersey and left when I was 18. It may be of interest to know that the annual take of whitetails in NJ is greater than that in Idaho, a state 10 times the size. Also helpful to know is that there are about 16 people per square mile in Idaho, and 1,000 in NJ!

Overpopulation of deer is quite common throughout the East, whereas here, nothing of the sort exists and our game laws are designed to reduce the take and make the kill more difficult.

I personally, from a purely common sense standpoint, have never understood the idiocy of declaring a fully rifled slug gun a "shotgun". Yet they are in many areas, that is, legal for use in "shotgun only" areas. Having said that, all the best to those who can use them. Make the best of stupidity in legislation whenever you can!

Ditto "shortrange" seasons where muzzleloaders are legal and .45-70's and the like, not. Again, the law at work. Stupid, but there it is.

In defense of the lawmakers, they have to draw lines somewhere {...or do they...} and any line of demarcation legally-speaking is going to be kicked around by somebody.

Doesn't Pennsylvania still limit ML seasons to flintlock?

Many states used to design hunting laws to reduce/limit the take. Western states and seems like parts of Canada still do. Many Eastern states have very long seasons and huge bag limits now that whitetails are common as hoes on Admiral Wilson Boulevard. Such are the differences that exist.

No wonder there are varied opinions.

Best wishes to all!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #127115 - 15/02/09 12:27 PM

Birdhunter,

That is one especially lovely gun! Did you build it yourself?

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: ]
      #127116 - 15/02/09 12:29 PM

Generalwar,

Did Tony Galazan display the double rifles that he has been working on? About a year ago I had e-mailed CSMC and was told that they had prototypes ready in 500 NE 3" and 470 NE and that they were going to exhibit them at the DSC or SCI shows. I guess they still haven't or else we would have heard about them.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Der_Jaeger
.375 member


Reged: 09/10/08
Posts: 607
Loc: SE Pennsylvania
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: 9.3x57]
      #127121 - 15/02/09 12:50 PM

Quote:


Doesn't Pennsylvania still limit ML seasons to flintlock?

Many Eastern states have very long seasons and huge bag limits now that whitetails are common as hoes on Admiral Wilson Boulevard.

Best wishes to all!




Yes, it certainly does, and yes, they certainly do!!

--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JPK
.375 member


Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #127129 - 15/02/09 02:56 PM

9.3x57,

Keep in mind that the M1 Abrams tank came out with a 120mm rifled barrel, but that the newer, more advanced M1A1 has a more accurate and more effective 120mm smooth bore barrel. Advancements are advancements. If rifled shotgun barrels weren't legal, we would be shooting the 12ga and 20ga versions of the M1A1's gun.

I still hunt with round ball guns, cap and ball revolver and 54 cal muzzle loader, though less frequently than when other alternatives weren't availble. The revolver is a revolver, and it has its own and my limitations. But the 54 cal gives up little to either the newer muzzleloaders or the rifled shotguns, except for two areas. One is foul weather, and the other is clean up. But little in terms of effectiveness on game, and they are ussually more accurate at that. I've never killed a deer (not counting with a centerfire rifle) further away than a round ball rifle's effective range. In fact, well inside, the longest shot being about 85yds.

There is no escaping the clean up and it kills time compared to either a similarly capable in line or shotgun. For example, you need to remove the load from a cap lock after each day's hunt, or you face likely probable ignition difficulty if not out and out impossibility, especially given our area's and the East Coast as a whole's humidity. Even snapping a few caps to ensure the rifle is bone dry leads to clean up since the caps are corosive and the residue hydrotrophic. Throw in some not uncommon rain and, well, leather gaurds, Saran wrap, duct tape,... you need to cross your fingers and toes too and then pray when you begin to squeeze that trigger.

But time is the critical element. Whether it is time not hunting because of unfavorable weather - for a cap lock, or time eaten fufilling the imperitive to clean a cap lock, and so eating into family or work time, displacing current or future hunting time, that tilts the balance to the newer technology, no differently than the effect of not dissimilar developments some 150 or 125 years ago.

Daryl's new inference regarding the capabilities of hunters who choose the newer technology over the old, that they do so out of despair, with some sort of niave but hopeful promise of instant accuracy or instant success, without a learning curve, is just another canard, and that duck don't fly! The more so because it is a heck of a lot easier to get a round ball rifle shooting better than an inline or rifled slug gun.

Regarding our deer seasons here in MD, We have two areas, one much more limited than the other. The more limited area is in the mountains to the west, where food is more scarce and winters harsher. In the less restrictive area, which includes some suburbia and much farmland and saltwater marsh, there is a season open from September 15 through January 31, more or less, whether it is bow or cross bow or muzzleloader or "firearms." I think I can legally take 45 deer utilizing the full quota for each season (cross bow and bow share the same quota,) and then there are areas where there is no limit at all where I could hunt to enhance my legal take, if I were inclined. After the first buck for each type of weapon, you are required to kill two does before you can kill another buck with that weapon type, and so on for each buck. When I began hunting, some three decades ago, we were limited to one deer per year!

JPK


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Caprivi
.375 member


Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: JPK]
      #127312 - 17/02/09 01:54 AM

If if is possible to rescue this thread and steer it back to the gun itself, I have some updated info from CSMC/Galazans.

The rifling twist is 1-24". Same as Hastings and Verney Carron use in there slug gun barrels.

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: Caprivi]
      #127323 - 17/02/09 04:09 AM

Pennsylvania Game Commission
2001 Elmerton Avenue
Harrisburg, PA 17110-9797
(717) 787-4250

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=465&q=151336

Flintlock Muzzleloader Season: Only single-barrel long-guns with a flintlock ignition system are permitted. The firearm must be an original or reproduction of a gun used prior to 1800, which is .44 caliber or larger, with iron, open "V" or notched sights (fiber-optic inserts are permitted). A flintlock ignition system consists of a hammer containing a naturally-occurring stone which is spring-propelled onto an iron or steel frizzen, which, in turn, creates sparks to ignite a gunpowder. Flintlock hand guns are not permitted. Flintlock muzzleloader hunters may use "any single projectile," including sabots, and mini and maxi balls.

Antlerless Muzzleloader Season: Any long gun muzzleloading firearm, including in-line and percussion sporting arms. Use of scopes and other lawful sighting devices is permitted. Fiber optic inserts may be used.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Der_Jaeger
.375 member


Reged: 09/10/08
Posts: 607
Loc: SE Pennsylvania
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: Caprivi]
      #127332 - 17/02/09 06:29 AM

Quote:

If if is possible to rescue this thread and steer it back to the gun itself, I have some updated info from CSMC/Galazans.

The rifling twist is 1-24". Same as Hastings and Verney Carron use in there slug gun barrels.




Well, Caprivi.... it doesn't seem possible!

--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #127339 - 17/02/09 08:12 AM

Quote:

Generalwar,

Did Tony Galazan display the double rifles that he has been working on? About a year ago I had e-mailed CSMC and was told that they had prototypes ready in 500 NE 3" and 470 NE and that they were going to exhibit them at the DSC or SCI shows. I guess they still haven't or else we would have heard about them.

Good hunting!




Yes my friend he had a couple out at Las Vegas, and at SCI in Reno. I don't recall the calibre's, I personally don't have a taste for his rifles so I never paid it much thought. He no doubt makes some of the finest high end shotguns available, I would like to see him bring back some classic British stuff though in DR's.

However, this new slug gun seems to be a very interesting step in the right direction.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Birdhunter50
.375 member


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #127346 - 17/02/09 10:00 AM

Mehul,
Thanks for your kind words. Yes, I built it for a firend who hunts hogs and deer in the swamps down in Florida. He asked me to make him the lightest 20 gauge double rifle that I could and this is it. Six and one half pounds with 20 inch barrels and the red dot installed on it. He also insisted that it had to be a sidelock. Bob H.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tarawa
.333 member


Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: JPK]
      #135798 - 21/05/09 08:28 AM

Has anyone received one of these yet?

--------------------
Life is for Service


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JPK
.375 member


Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: [NEW] The RBL Professional [Re: tarawa]
      #136000 - 23/05/09 01:55 PM

Still waiting.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 796 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  CptCurl 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 20184

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved