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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Crackers for the 9.5 [Re: DarylS]
      #126396 - 09/02/09 02:37 PM

From my earlier post in this thread:
Quote:

BTW Daryl, AR2206 is very close to the H4895 you recommend, which is actually rebadged AR2206H. AR2206H is only 1% to 2% slower than AR2206. Also, I think AR2206 may no longer be manufactured by ADI, being completely replaced by AR2206H? Someone mentioned this recently.


Varget is re-badged ADI AR2208, by the way.

Also, I'm using 270gr RN bullets as this was the bullet-weight used in all factory-loads as far as I can determine. The recoil and stock-cracking issues would only be exacerbated by the extra bullet weight of a 300-grainer, although I agree the additional terminal ballistics would not go astray when tackling buffalo.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Crackers for the 9.5 [Re: Marrakai]
      #126400 - 09/02/09 03:04 PM

I'm sure you will, but I look forward to a report on the 9.5x57 and buffalo.

All wound tracking assessments would be very interesting indeed.

The 57mm case offers a tremendous amount of killing power for very little recoil.

'Can't wait!

BTW: 46 grains of milsurp IMR 4895 gave me 2051 fps with sized down Hornady 270 Spire Point in my 9.3x57 with 24" bbl.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Crackers for the 9.5 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #127017 - 14/02/09 07:50 PM

Just took a couple of photos to try to show the 'fractures' around the ogive of my Hornady 270gr RN bullets. This one shows it up fairly well:



BTW, I think that is what is visible inside the jackets of the sectioned Hornadys in Daryl's earlier post. They would certainly aid in quick opening at the lower velocities we're talking about here. Time to test the theory on our local bovines, if only this damn rain would stop!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

Edited by CptCurl (18/01/10 08:42 AM)

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Crackers for the 9.5 [Re: Marrakai]
      #129034 - 08/03/09 11:22 PM

Just to finish this thread off, I finally found the time to shoot the 9.5 for accuracy today.

Needless to say, it didn't disappoint!

I settled on 47gr AR2206 with the 270gr Hornady RNs.
Three-shot groups at 50 metres with the open express sights were all around an inch, biggest was maybe 1 1/4 inch.
Best was the first group fired, before drifting foresight to the left a few thou:



The group now falls directly over the Ten-X, and I'm ready for a serious hunt. Bring on the dry season!

ps: Hope the 270gr Woodleighs shoot to the same POI, haven't received them yet.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

Edited by CptCurl (18/01/10 08:42 AM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Crackers for the 9.5 [Re: Marrakai]
      #129049 - 09/03/09 03:13 AM

Quite posssibly, a change in bullet mfg. will not change POI - especially with .375's.

If I recall correctly, AR2206 is just barely slightly faster than AR2206H. Your 47.0gr. of AR2206 should bring it in line closely with my 9.3x57 load of 48.5gr. H4895. Worked on a Moose last fall at 200 yards!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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GG375
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Reged: 27/02/04
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Re: Crackers for the 9.5 [Re: DarylS]
      #129221 - 10/03/09 09:51 PM


Nice group Tony.

GG

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Crackers for the 9.5 [Re: GG375]
      #150997 - 18/01/10 06:19 AM

I think I jazzed up the 9.5x57 M-S a bit.So my experiences with the 270gr Hornady differ from those reported by others. My 1910 is a rifle with a 20" barrel, see photo, apparently a factory option. Granted, it is not in perfect condition externally, but I got it for free. An old friend salvaged it from the junkpile of a museum! and gave it to me, together with the barreled action of a M-S M1900. The pre-WW2 Zeiss Zielvier scope also was a present by a guy who did not need such an outmoded thing anymore. The claw-mount parts I found in my well-assorted junkbox. Well, I had to pay for the British sling many years ago in a small shop in London Southwark named Rigby's...
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af303/kuduae/2010_01170002.jpg
It may not be a beauty anymore, but it works. I made my cases from W-W 30-06 brass, as these had most capacity. I load them with 270gr Hornady interlock roundnoses, still have 5 boxes in stock. Primer S&B lr. Powder charge 55gr VV N140, slowly dribbled in through a 6" funnel, a full capacity load, but not compressed. My Shooter's Chrony tells they are leaving at 2318fps. At this starting velocity the Hornadies surely open up on our smallish game, out to 160 meters, did not shoot farther yet. On roe deer they work almost too brutal, about like a .300 magnum load. Foxes are nearly blown up. They are perfect on boar, saving tracking time at less-than-perfect hits, providing a good blood spoor. In short, a near perfect hunting load for woods hunting in central Europe, providing plenty of reserve power. And, this is what the 9.5x57 was designed for a hundred years ago in 1910!

--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.

Edited by kuduae (18/01/10 06:20 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: Crackers for the 9.5 [Re: kuduae]
      #150999 - 18/01/10 06:37 AM



the barrel length is very unusual but a 9,5x56 MS isnt easy to find here anymore. scope with claw mount is 100%political correct( same I have for my Mosin project)!
I think that the 9,5x56 was intended for the british market. Why? its the only .375 diameter nitro cartridge from continental europe. there are a lot of 9,5mm target rounds and also the 9,5x60R Mauser but after nitro powder hiting the gun shop the 9,5mm diameter was becoming obsolet. not in britain where the 375NE 2,5" is so close in power to the 375 2 1/4NE and also shoting the same bullet weight that I believe the mannlicher cartridge was developt as the rimless version.

Edited by CptCurl (18/01/10 08:43 AM)

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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
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Re: Crackers for the 9.5 [Re: kuduae]
      #151002 - 18/01/10 08:29 AM

Kuduae , I think that is one of the best looking 1910's I have seen , one you can use with all the bit's on it & not be afraid fall over with it .

I love those powerful Carbines !

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
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Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Crackers for the 9.5 [Re: kuduae]
      #151004 - 18/01/10 09:16 AM

Kuduae,

Is that a Lyman cocking piece sight, and if so, was it already there or did you install it? I have one I would like to install on one of my M/S rifles, but I lack the special "nut" that Lyman used to sell with the pre-cut dovetail. I suppose I could braze an extension onto the nut and attach the sight to it, but I would prefer not to, if there is an alternative.

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Crackers for the 9.5 [Re: xausa]
      #151012 - 18/01/10 10:38 AM

Xausa: No, it is a windage-adjustable Parker-Hale "Sportarget" peepsight, see the 1940 Shooters Bible p.209. It is indeed brazed to the standard M-S firing pin nut. Better than the Lyman #1 on my Gibbs, Bristol M95 6.5x53R aka .256 Mannlicher, as it clicks for both w & e. It came on the rifle. On other rifles, I have substituted these by altering another P-H model, the #16 made for target rifles once and available at gunshows sometimes, same elevation stem, and brazing those to Mauser and M-S nuts. On my Gibbs the Lyman sight is mounted in a dovetail filed into an original nut with the firing pin shortened accordingly. Same for a Rigby peepsight on the long nut of a commercial Mauser.
Lancaster: IMHO you are only right in part. There was an identical case before 1910: In the 1904 DWM catalog the 9.4x56 aka 9.55x56 is listed, case #393. A very heavy 25.7g =396gr rn solid bullet #156 of .378" diameter is listed for this case.
There may have been other reasons for Steyr to go to a 9.5mm cartridge: They needed a proprietary chambering of their own, competitive with their German competitor Mauser's 9.3mm'rs. Of course, it had to be different enough, so that it was not to compared not as easily as their former 9x56M-S and 8x56M-S offerings that were obviously inferior ballistically to the similar-named Mauser cartridges. They needed such a cartridge not only for export, but also for domestic use. Remember, in 1910 the Austro-Hungarian empire spanned from (now) Italy to Ukraina and Poland to Bosnia. It included the wildest and best hunting grounds in Europe, like the Carpathian mountains, thrieving with bears, huge stags and 800 pound wild boars. As the 9.5x57M-S is a little bit "light" for really big African game, I think they intended it for use on their domestic big game.

--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.

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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
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Re: Crackers for the 9.5 [Re: kuduae]
      #151055 - 18/01/10 10:14 PM

Yes , I was eyeing up my PH16 sight & thinking I could mate it to my Lee Speed bolt head some how !

could you please show a close up of it & the other sights , in the way they a fixed ?

Cheers !

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Crackers for the 9.5 [Re: Sarg]
      #151114 - 19/01/10 08:32 AM

xausa and Sarg: Have posted photos in the "Classic rifles" forum. Look for "cocking piece aperture sights".

--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.

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lawndart
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Reged: 09/05/06
Posts: 35
Loc: Idaho, USA
Re: Crackers for the 9.5 [Re: kuduae]
      #155645 - 06/03/10 04:19 PM

I will check to see if I have any of my .375", 270 grain Hornady RN pills left from the days with my 1910.

If so, I will send them down Marrakai.

lawndart

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Crackers for the 9.5 [Re: Marrakai]
      #155660 - 07/03/10 01:07 AM

Quote:

Just took a couple of photos to try to show the 'fractures' around the ogive of my Hornady 270gr RN bullets. This one shows it up fairly well:



BTW, I think that is what is visible inside the jackets of the sectioned Hornadys in Daryl's earlier post. They would certainly aid in quick opening at the lower velocities we're talking about here. Time to test the theory on our local bovines, if only this damn rain would stop!



The 270gr., pre-interlock era was well known to produce deeper penetration than the 300gr. RN. It will be interesting to find out how they fair at around 2,100fps. I suspect they'll be fine on a big ungulate, but might be too stiff yet, for deer. Only shooting & tracign the wound channel will tell.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Kiwi_bloke
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Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Crackers for the 9.5 [Re: DarylS]
      #158110 - 02/04/10 08:24 PM

Using H4895, I can put three 260 Nosler Accubonds into a 3/4" group from a take-down M1910 in 9,5x57 MS. They register 2257 ft/sec at 10 ft. They feed well and the mildly compressed load has a Standard Devation that hovers around 9-14. Recoil is keen with a steel butt-plate.

These Accubonds have a good BC at .473 which means that with a MV of 2250 they maintain 1800 ft/sec out to 275 yards. Nosler's 260 grain partitions, however, have a BC of .314 so at the same MV they only maintain 1800 ft/sec out to 175 yards. So the Accubonds reliably open about as far as I'd care to shoot this old timer with open sights.

The brass I use is Norma 9,3x57 which I run through the RCBS 9,5x57 F.L. dies. I have used R-P .30-06 brass.

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