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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Altamaha
.333 member


Reged: 29/12/08
Posts: 376
Loc: Washington State USA
Stocking The Big Bore: Iron Sights Only
      #124678 - 21/01/09 04:16 AM

First, I am a fairly new member, having enjoyed reading the discussions while a "Lurker", even going back through some forums to the very beginning and reading all.

As I enter retirement, I will be completing several rifle projects. Actions, barrels, stock blanks, etc., are on hand and it is time to plan the stocking arrangements. The four rifles on the list are 458 Win Mag on a Mark X Mauser, 458 Lott on a Model 70 Winchester, 450 Rigby on a CZ550, and a 500 Jeffery on a M98 Mauser.

Rifles will be equipped with iron sights only as they should. As we all know, stock configuration is extremely important with rifles of this nature, not only for proper "sighting" but for recoil management. My thoughts are: 5/8" to 3/4" drop at the front of the comb, 1-1/2" to 1-3/4" drop at the top of the butt, 3/8" to 1/2" cast off, some pitch at the buttplate, and fairly large dimensions of the recoil pad height and width. Of course, I will fine tune the dimensions to "fit" my statue by first building a try stock and "cutting and fitting" in order to arrive at the final dimensions before cutting into a nice piece of walnut.

So, fire away all, I will enjoy comments on what works for you individuals that have a trusted iron sighted big bore that "fits".

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Der_Jaeger
.375 member


Reged: 09/10/08
Posts: 607
Loc: SE Pennsylvania
Re: Stocking The Big Bore: Iron Sights Only [Re: Altamaha]
      #124680 - 21/01/09 04:46 AM


Let me first start off by congratulating you on reaching retirement and doing so with the resources available to tackle those great projects you have on the drawing board.

I'm 6'4" and weigh 200lbs....about 25lbs less than my football weight and some swapping of muscle to fat weight....but that's another story. I have a swimmers build and here's what my dimensions are as determined by Griffin & Howe and reconfirmed on 2 other occassions:

DAC = 1 1/4"
DAH = 2 1/4"
LoP = 15 3/4" for shotguns, 15" for rifles
Cast off = 1/4"
Pitch = 0

These dimensions are almost exactly what I had built into my Merkel and a rifle so stocked, comes up just as easy and natural as an upland game gun.

The type of iron sights will play a big role in your DAC and DOH measurements

--------------------

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27003
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Stocking The Big Bore: Iron Sights Only [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #124684 - 21/01/09 06:03 AM

Stock fit for fast shooting depends a lot on ones 'style'. Stock crawlers abound on this side of the Atlantic pond, while the British method is a more upright, stand straight. They lift the gun to the face, rather that leaning forward, straining the neck in a crouch and pulling the gun into a held back shoulder and arm. This style requires more length of pull and lower sights, while the up-right style requires more drop and less length.

Of course you can blend in all different body shapes and lengths of neck and arm - all require different lengths and angles - BUT - a good shot, a pracitised shot can use almost any gun with deadly accuracy as he/she can mould their body to the design being held in hand. What this allows, is a lot more leeway in stock design. To say I 'need' 14 1/4" of pull is an inncorrect statement. The length of pull that feels right varies with stock design, style and sight height.

The thing to do is to shoulder a variety of guns, shotguns and rifles alike to find one that lines up properly with irons. English and European designs of the early 1900's, late 1800's are the best as scopes were not as prevelent then.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Altamaha
.333 member


Reged: 29/12/08
Posts: 376
Loc: Washington State USA
Re: Stocking The Big Bore: Iron Sights Only [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #124712 - 21/01/09 01:13 PM

Interesting numbers you have Der Jaeger. But, as you are of large athletic build, I can visualise. My pull runs around 14 inches. I have "tried" a number of rifles over the years for fit, the best was a 375 with numbers similar to figures in my first post. However, I will spend a good bit of time working on a pattern stock, going the cut and try (meaning smearing Bondo) method until things are correct in both fast mounting and pointing. After a few hundred rounds down the barrel I should have things "sorted out". I have a stock duplicating machine, so once I have a suitable pattern, making the final stocks will be easy. I have been toying with the idea of building a "try stock" with adjustable comb, pitch, drop and cast off.

Americans are stock crawlers as most only shoot scoped rifles with poorly fitting straight stocks. My first 338 had a stock so horrible that after three shots my cheek was bleeding!!! And a 338 is not a heavy kicker.

I have been collecting actions, barrels and wood since 1962, some parts went into routine small and mid bore rifles throughout the years, with the best actions reserved for now. I have most of the metal work complete on the 450 Rigby and the 458 Win, so I will post a photo in a few days.

I have two British style take off stocks from before WWII, the rifles were Mausers with open sights. One is close to what I desire, but it is built a bit light in section. I will use it as a pattern on the duplicator and make another pattern stock with about 1/4" to 1/2" more thickness in cross section, then start "cutting and fitting".

Of course, all this will not happen quickly, as other things are on the agenda and interfere with gun work!

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Der_Jaeger
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Reged: 09/10/08
Posts: 607
Loc: SE Pennsylvania
Re: Stocking The Big Bore: Iron Sights Only [Re: Altamaha]
      #124745 - 21/01/09 10:43 PM


Altamaha,

I'm envious of your stock duplicating machine and would love to have one for my shop. I'm a stock hobbyist who's always envisioned being a stocker for one of the English gunmaking houses in London!
My hobby is focused on English oil finishes, stripping/refinishing, recheckering, extensions, pads, etc.... I would love to be able to take a beautiful blank and fit it to a gun such that the gun's furniture appears to grow seemlessly out of the wood.

You'd be surprised at how long you can go in length of pull and still shoot very well. Most people adapt themselves to stocks that are much too short. Once one learns to shoot with a longer stock, they will never go back to an ill-fitting one. Also, few people consider shooting position when getting fitted for a rifle stock. Shooting prone, kneeling, or sitting will require an additional inch or maybe two because your head will naturally be positioned farther forward on the comb.

The length of pull that I mentioned above for rifles is for open sights. For a scoped rifle where I have to accomodate eye relief of the optics, I would probably take a 1/2" off of that. I shoot with a traditional heads-up style and my DAC and DAH reflect that.

I'm not really a "large" build at all; more swimmer like even though football was my chosen sport.

--------------------

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Altamaha
.333 member


Reged: 29/12/08
Posts: 376
Loc: Washington State USA
Re: Stocking The Big Bore: Iron Sights Only [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #124863 - 22/01/09 02:51 PM

Der Jaeger, Thanks again, good comments. I have a Tactical rifle with adjustable length of pull and adjustable comb, it is fun to play with and change the dimensions. I also find a increased length of pull helps when shooting prone.

The duplicator was a prize, got it cheap several years ago from a furniture maker/carpenter. It is a pretty large machine, has two powered spindles along with the tracing spindle, commonly called a three spindle machine. Also has a reversing mechanism, so a LH stock can be duplicated from a RH stock and vice-versa. I am putting it back together now after taking it apart for a paint job and restoration. (One of the other agenda items that distracts from gun projects).

My envy was working for Holland & Holland or Westly Richards, accomplishing the barrel and action work for large bore magazine rifles, so you and I could be working in adjacent rooms in our envious careers!!!!

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Der_Jaeger
.375 member


Reged: 09/10/08
Posts: 607
Loc: SE Pennsylvania
Re: Stocking The Big Bore: Iron Sights Only [Re: Altamaha]
      #124879 - 22/01/09 11:04 PM



Well, when you get your shop properly set up, let me know. I may send you a couple of nice blanks to have duplicated so I can finish them off.

I'll keep a look out for your name should it appear at one of the gun making houses at 33 Bruton Street, London, or at Pritchart Street in Birmingham.

--------------------

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Altamaha
.333 member


Reged: 29/12/08
Posts: 376
Loc: Washington State USA
Re: Stocking The Big Bore: Iron Sights Only [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #124897 - 23/01/09 02:01 AM

Regretfully I remain Under Apprentiship, in my next life I will apply at 33 Bruton Street.

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