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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder
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mikez_4_bore
.224 member


Reged: 28/12/08
Posts: 3
Loc: eastern usa
.72 cal kodiak conical mould ?
      #124392 - 18/01/09 10:44 AM

I'm in the process of trying to find the perfect conical and a mould for it, I see several old threads on the subject and a post by stoney The high road forums who has a Brook's true bore mould and another guy used a NEI mould. The NEI is a .732 dia and that's a 835 grain conical but a comment I read about them said they basically had to be hammered down the barrel I'm not looking for conicals that are that tight. The guy with the Brooks mould said his shot good to 100 yards and were 650 grains or so but did not give dia specifics. I e-mailed Brook's about it and they said they would need a simple drawing and some dimensions from me and mentioned something about a sizing punch. My barrel has 6 groves and from what Ive read the on the forums groves are .732 and lands are .724, I'm new when it comes to casting so when it comes to giving brooks the dimensions for a custom mould I'm lost and don't know anything about a sizer or a punch. I just don't want to spend over $200 and order the wrong thing. Any sizing suggestions would be great, Thanks for any help.

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DarylSModerator
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27323
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .72 cal kodiak conical mould ? [Re: mikez_4_bore]
      #124397 - 18/01/09 12:29 PM

Why would you want to shoot a conical in what is one of the best muzzleloading North American hunting rifles? You will gain nothing in using a slug - except instabiltiy upon impact & an incredibly high trajectory due to a loafing, heavy bullet. That rifle has a RB twist. It is not a 12 bore Double English rifle for dangeorus game and will not take more than squib loads without prematurely burning out nipples. Too - the nipple/hammer/fence relationship is lousy and not safe for heavy pressure loads - which, slugs deliver in spades.
The proper round ball for that rifle is a .715", which in pure lead weighs 545gr. (1-1/4oz) and 495gr. or a bit more in WW metal. Crown the muzzles properly and learn to shoot patched round balls.

Just my opinion, of course. It's your rifle adn your eyeballs without any protection from cap fragments. As I said, it is an unsafe breech due to the fit. Pedersoli put potentially great fences on the rifle, then used his junk, el-cheapo locks,mounted the nipples above the fences and made them inefectual. Bloody hell.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Dphariss
.300 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Montana
Re: .72 cal kodiak conical mould ? [Re: mikez_4_bore]
      #124843 - 22/01/09 12:37 PM

Besides the mould you will need another 80-100 bucks for platinum lined nipples.
If you use enough powder to make any velocity you will surely exceed proof load pressures in this gun with a conical.
As Daryl stated the gun is designed for the RB and will perform better on game with that projectile. If you intend to shoot African Elephant its marginal with any projectile.
If for some reason you are worried about penetration it will probably shoot WW balls ok and this will greatly increase penetration if its needed, though outside Africa I can't see penetration being an issue with a 12 bore.
The current ML "conical craze" was started and fueled by companys making and selling various conical bullets. Since they made/sold conicals the RB *must* be deficient or there is no reason to buy their product. So the round ball is bad, conical good. Facts and historical data is irrelevant.
If you give this rifle an honest trial with a RB you might be more impressed than you think. Its real killer and capable of taking any NA game with a patched RB though a W-W ball might be the best choice for large bears.
With a reasonably tight cloth patched round ball the projectile in the unfired barrel will likely not move under recoil. With a "naked" conical you will need to reseat or at least check the bullets position every time you fire the gun to assure you don't have a spaced bullet in the unfired barrel.
As Daryl pointed out this is NOT the gun that the old English 12 bore rifles were. It is not breeched the same and lacks protection these guns offered the shooter. The location of the nipples, the hammer shape and the fences around them were all carefully engineered in the good grade vintage guns so as to protect the shooter.
As Daryl said it is certainly your rifle and you may use it as you wish but you should do some research and some shooting with the PRB before trying conicals in this rifle.

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: .72 cal kodiak conical mould ? [Re: Dphariss]
      #124859 - 22/01/09 02:33 PM

I did shoot two conicals in my Petersoli .72 with 150 grains of FF. Recoil was unbearable. Sticking with the RB.

Always wear eye protection. I took a cap fragment just 5mm under my left eye from a TC hawkens. I had to extract it with tweezers. Bad ju-ju.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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bp72double
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Reged: 12/12/08
Posts: 9
Loc: Arkansas USA
Re: .72 cal kodiak conical mould ? [Re: bonanza]
      #126061 - 07/02/09 07:46 AM

I've shot mine with as much as 150g of Goex 2f and a patched round ball, and it isn't uncomfortable IMHO. I thought about using conicals as well, but I can't think of a reliable way of keeping the left barrel load in place during recoil. I checked the RB load several times after firing one barrel and it has never moved. These guns seem quite stout to me, though I don't know what they are proofed at. Certainly 150g under a conical is a lot more pressure than my load. I'd love to get it up to 200g but haven't had the time to work up to that gradually. At 150 g the gun showed no signs whatsoever of high pressure (hammer blown back to half cock, cap fragments blown off, patches cut) and the patches looked great. That's a lot of whack downrange, btw!
Richard

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: .72 cal kodiak conical mould ? [Re: bp72double]
      #126068 - 07/02/09 08:14 AM

Mine regulates round balls nicely at 110 grains, and is on the hairy edge at 150. The conical was in the 700+ grain range.

I have shot round balls over 150 grains, but accuracy goes to hell.

Still the best damn double rifle under $1000 hands down.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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bp72double
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Reged: 12/12/08
Posts: 9
Loc: Arkansas USA
Re: .72 cal kodiak conical mould ? [Re: bonanza]
      #126163 - 08/02/09 03:09 AM

I haven't really had the time to properly shoot groups and see the accuracy of the load/rifle yet, though I plan to soon. I can say that at 50 yards it is pretty close from blasting claybirds laying on a berm at the range. It was too cold that day too do any real accuracy work. Grip strength on the forend/barrels, and how tense your upper body is, makes a huge difference in point of impact. This isn't going to be like any of my other rifles as far as target shooting and sighting in, that's for sure. It is a lot of fun though!

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tarawa
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Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: .72 cal kodiak conical mould ? [Re: bp72double]
      #126851 - 13/02/09 10:58 AM

You might want to give the owner of Dixie slugs a call. I believe that Pedersoli borrowed one of Dixies moulds. Maybe for the Kodiak. Inquire about the "Tusker" conical. They sent me 5 hardened lead conicals, but I didn't try them yet.

--------------------
Life is for Service

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DarylSModerator
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Re: .72 cal kodiak conical mould ? [Re: tarawa]
      #126876 - 13/02/09 03:31 PM

I give up.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Dphariss
.300 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Montana
Re: .72 cal kodiak conical mould ? [Re: DarylS]
      #126881 - 13/02/09 04:21 PM

Quote:

I give up.



When hardened conicals in MLs comes up its time.


One of Forsythe's points in favor of the RB was that its impossible to use hardened conicals in a ML. At least one without a false muzzle.

Dan

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tarawa
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Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: .72 cal kodiak conical mould ? [Re: Dphariss]
      #127124 - 15/02/09 01:25 PM

Don't worry Daryl, I won't load them hardened ones in my double...it's round balls for me. When I found out that they had to be forced down the barrel, that scared me! The owner of Dixie Slugs was going to make conicals in soft lead and sent me a few of the hard ones for me to look at.
I was still wondering why Pedersoli requested the use of one of his Tusker moulds.

--------------------
Life is for Service

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Longknife
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Reged: 17/04/08
Posts: 269
Loc: Illinois
Re: .72 cal kodiak conical mould ? [Re: tarawa]
      #127504 - 19/02/09 01:43 PM

Quote:

I was still wondering why Pedersoli requested the use of one of his Tusker moulds.



WHY???? Because Pedersoli is in the business to sell guns and make money. Todays shooting public have been brought up to believe that you have to shoot BULLETS and not round balls. So Pedersoli is going to give the public what they want. (Whether it works or not). Pedersoli may be testing a "slug twist" barrel and planning to offer it also, heck why not? The molds are already available!!!!!!!! Doesn't all the other manufacturers offer fast twist barrels for sabots, minnis' maxis' and what have you???? You (the public) are going to get what you want(whether it works or not!!!!!!!!!)

--------------------
Longknife

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27323
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Re: .72 cal kodiak conical mould ? [Re: Longknife]
      #127563 - 20/02/09 03:37 AM

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was still wondering why Pedersoli requested the use of one of his Tusker moulds.



(LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA) heh, heh, just kidding.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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