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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance
      #119027 - 18/11/08 01:08 AM

Had a very weird thing happen this past week...my friend and I snuck up on a group of deer feeding in the sage--fairly open from where we were to where they were--we had run out of cover..-so I attempted a shot on the buck--as he stepped over a very slight knoll..distance was right at 324 yards...he dropped to the shot...when we walked over..there were not one but two deer laying on the ground...after analyzing what had happened we found that when I had shot the buck --the bullet went through the ear hole and out the other side of the buck, then striking a doe, apparently feeding behind the buck..directly in the skull, killing her instantly as well...fortunately we had tags for a doe as well so it ended up o.k.---

Before the shot, we looked, there was a big hill and rock wall directly behind them about 80 yards..so felt good with the shot, but neither of us had spotted the doe..kind of freaked me out a bit actually.

Anyway, we retrieved the bullet out of the doe..it was in her sinus cavity after blowing through her skull cap..see attached photos..keeping in the mind, this is AFTER passing through the head of the buck..I was shoooting a custom rifle in .257 Weatherby caliber--Remington titanium action, Hart barrel, and HS Precision lightweight stock, jewel trigger--loaded -100 gr Barnes Triple shock..chronographed hand loads at 3652 fps...Have not weighed the bullet yet, but would guess it has retained around 80%...

Ripp














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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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DarylS
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Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: Ripp]
      #119032 - 18/11/08 03:19 AM

Excellent performance from an excellent bullet.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: DarylS]
      #119035 - 18/11/08 03:38 AM

Quote:

Excellent performance from an excellent bullet.



Very true!!

Critter's heads are tough stuff indeed. A while back I shot a big doe in the mouth with a 140 Prvi Partizan in 6.5x55 at about 10 feet. Bullet shattered on the teeth and came to rest in the back of the jaw. We have pistol-shot many dozens of butcher critters here on the place over the years, and many of those in the head. Horned critters even like polled, hornless sheep have amazingly tough heads, much more massive over the top than comparable-weight black bear.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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tinker
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Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: 9.3x57]
      #119039 - 18/11/08 04:10 AM

Ripp-


Great example of why I pass on many many more shots than I take.
This is a great illustration of how important it is to know what's going on down range of the target - whatever that target happens to be.

Good thing the final bullet-catcher was a game animal.





--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: tinker]
      #119054 - 18/11/08 07:02 AM

Quote:

Ripp-


Great example of why I pass on many many more shots than I take.
This is a great illustration of how important it is to know what's going on down range of the target - whatever that target happens to be.

Good thing the final bullet-catcher was a game animal.





--Tinker




Agree it is very important to know what is down field..which is what really surprised us--we looked for about 10 minutes trying to decide whether to take him or not..as mentioned, there was a big hill/rock wall directly behind him..so felt safe with the shot..we never did see the doe...really unfortunate day for her as well..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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bigmaxx
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Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: Ripp]
      #119072 - 18/11/08 12:42 PM

Nice hunt photos. I am going to have to try the Barnes. I have gotten locked into the Swifts. I need to be more open minded...LOL.

--------------------
One day at a time...

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Ripp
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Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: bigmaxx]
      #119104 - 19/11/08 12:38 AM

Quote:

Nice hunt photos. I am going to have to try the Barnes. I have gotten locked into the Swifts. I need to be more open minded...LOL.




I assume, no pun intended...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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DarylS
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Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: Ripp]
      #119109 - 19/11/08 02:29 AM

bigmax - try the TX .224's on paper. You may need to run them .030" or so off the lands. I started with .040" and found under 3/4" accuracy at .030" using the Blue coated ones as well as plain vanila X's. Closer might raise pressure unduly. The TX is supposed to allow closer seating, but even int he 7mm Mauser, .050" off the lands gave sub MOA acuracy. The big cased .22s can pump up pressure pretty quickly as I found with the .22 Swift IMP.
I'd go for the 53gr. bullet (or whatever the TS is) and work on a descent load. It will work if you do.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: DarylS]
      #119116 - 19/11/08 04:19 AM

Quote:

bigmax - try the TX .224's on paper. You may need to run them .030" or so off the lands. I started with .040" and found under 3/4" accuracy at .030" using the Blue coated ones as well as plain vanila X's. Closer might raise pressure unduly. The TX is supposed to allow closer seating, but even int he 7mm Mauser, .050" off the lands gave sub MOA acuracy. The big cased .22s can pump up pressure pretty quickly as I found with the .22 Swift IMP.
I'd go for the 53gr. bullet (or whatever the TS is) and work on a descent load. It will work if you do.




I have attended several seminars with Barnes while at SCI--the info they have always stated is to start at .050 off the lands and work from there..

for myself on my .280, I used 120 Tipped triple shocks--they are .040 off and shoot under 3/4"...wiht my .25 caliber it is actually .030 off...and shoots about the same size groups...

Plan to use some in my 220 Swift as well...

As BigMax stated, I too am a big fax of the A-Frame and will continue to use them..however one advantage I think Barnes may offer is that you can go to a bit lighter bullet for caliber --so a bit flatter trajetory which can be desirable here in the West where 200, 300 yard shots and beyond are not that uncommon..Which is what I did with the .280 this year..went from the 140 gr bullet at 3040 fps to a 120 at 3260fps...not that much difference ...probably more psychological...but it worked very well...and while I know that in some cases the heavier bullet may retain more velocity at longer ranges, it was not the case as I ran tests to 500 yards...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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DarylS
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Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: Ripp]
      #119122 - 19/11/08 07:02 AM

For any given velocity, the higher the BC, the higher the retained velocity - regardless of diameter or weight.
: If both 140's and 120's have the same BC- the 120's will always be faster, shoot flatter and in the case of the TX, will probably penetrate more deeply than a normally designed 140gr. bullet.

I did a similar change with the .260 CLC I designed. For long range shooting, the 120 XLC's at 3,308fps were condiserably flatter shooting than any of the hunting 140's when driven at top speeds of 2,850fps.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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SharpsNitro
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Reged: 12/08/08
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Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: Ripp]
      #119133 - 19/11/08 08:54 AM

I'm surprised that the bullet didn't fragment more. My only experience with the TSX has been that the petals tend to break off when you hit bone. I have the remnants of one that I put through the head of a warthog at 50 yards (168gr .308 @ ~2600fps) it expanded fine but lost all of the petals. No bullets were recovered from my Kudu or Zebra but the exit holes indicated they didn't retain the expanded petals either.

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
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Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #119183 - 19/11/08 11:07 PM

324 yard head shots! Have you tapped into a little known market for deer heart/lungs that we don't know about?
Nice buck by the way and fantastic country!

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #119186 - 19/11/08 11:33 PM

Quote:

I'm surprised that the bullet didn't fragment more. My only experience with the TSX has been that the petals tend to break off when you hit bone. I have the remnants of one that I put through the head of a warthog at 50 yards (168gr .308 @ ~2600fps) it expanded fine but lost all of the petals. No bullets were recovered from my Kudu or Zebra but the exit holes indicated they didn't retain the expanded petals either.




The pedals breaking off is an item I have heard no numerous occassions...question is, how old or long ago was this?? I have had bullet failures with an occasional "premium" bullet as well...but it seems to be more the exception than the rule...and so far, none with Barnes...one would think, at the velocity this was fired at, pedals would have blown off as well...go figure...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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DarylS
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Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: Ripp]
      #119212 - 20/11/08 06:48 AM

Petals breaking off on bone is no problem for the bullet - less than the lead loss from normal designed bullets as the lead is drawn up from inside and gets wiped off the nose - as far as weight loss is concerned. With the Barnes X bullets, loss of petals just means deeper penetration - not a bad thing at all, as the reduced frontal area allows that greater penetration at a descent speed, and the tubular wound channed which results is not the 'carrot' tail as on normal bullets. Overall damage to the vitals is greater with the X.

Bullet exit holes with X bullets that I've seen are rarely larger than 1" in diameter. This is perfect as far as I'm concerned. Some think the exit should be larger but I don't. That the exit is this size means to me the bullet has maintained an expanded diameter of about 3/8" to 1/2" - perfect as far as I'm concerned. The exit itself means a long wound channel as the bullet maintained enough velocity to stretch the hide, then punch on through and still make a hole larger than the bullet's diameter which is due to the shock wave ahead of the bullet. I am referring to moose and elk, of course.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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SharpsNitro
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Posts: 729
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Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: Ripp]
      #119224 - 20/11/08 10:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm surprised that the bullet didn't fragment more. My only experience with the TSX has been that the petals tend to break off when you hit bone. I have the remnants of one that I put through the head of a warthog at 50 yards (168gr .308 @ ~2600fps) it expanded fine but lost all of the petals. No bullets were recovered from my Kudu or Zebra but the exit holes indicated they didn't retain the expanded petals either.




The pedals breaking off is an item I have heard no numerous occassions...question is, how old or long ago was this?? I have had bullet failures with an occasional "premium" bullet as well...but it seems to be more the exception than the rule...and so far, none with Barnes...one would think, at the velocity this was fired at, pedals would have blown off as well...go figure...

Ripp



This was back in July and I was using the new tipped TSX. My kudu went down pretty quick as did the warthog so I had no complaints about the bullet performance on them. The zebra was hit good, mid chest (he was quaretering towards me at 200yds) with the bullet entering just in front of the left foreleg and it exited just behind the right foreleg. Exit hole was maybe 3/8" at best; the downside I had with the situation is that it was still able to run a good 1000yds before expiring. If I had it to do over again, I would have used a .375; I was pretty nervous about losing a wounded animal until we found him.

The PHs' we hunted with didn't like the Barnes because of the petal loss issue, they preferred A-Frames. At least the TSX penetrates well and keeps on a pretty straight path rather than deflect (as Daryl_S talks about above).

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Ripp
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Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #119253 - 21/11/08 01:01 AM

If you have read many of my posts you are aware I REALLY like A-Frames and have used them on lots of game--agree --they are a fantastic bullet--all I have really used in Africa other that Barnes Solids...

As to Barnes Triple shocks---up too this point, everything I have pulled the trigger on has basically dropped to the shot..and honestly this is the first time I was able to recover a bullet.all the others were pass throughs...although..again, my experience with other bullets is much greater,,the Barnes seem to have killed as quickly as anything else I have used...

I do know, as Darryl suggested..the reports and articles I have read on comparison tests..the Barnes does very well in total inches of penetration...guess this might be another test for 9.3x57 to do...

Take care

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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DarylS
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Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: Ripp]
      #119255 - 21/11/08 01:47 AM

Ripp - the trouble I see with the 9.3x57, is the low velocity and possible refusal to expand or very limited expansion with a X type bullets.

I figure, in a '98 action's 9.3x57, the 250gr. Barnes TX might achieve around 2,450fps to maybe 2,500fps, same speed I drive 232gr. Vulcans and swaged 225gr. Hornady SP's in my M46 Husky. BLC2 and H4895 seem to work the best. I should include Varget in there as well as I use it with 286gr. and 300gr. swaged Hornady's.

I'm not conviced a premium bullet is needed in this sedate round, unless one wishes to break down heavy game with large bone hits. That's where the X-type bullet really shines. I think a 300gr.RN Hornady, swaged or drawn down to .366" will give all the penetration needed. In Rod's tests, it beat all his tested bullets so far, including the .375's for total penetration. He was only driving them at 2,050fps. My M46 Husky makes 2,175fps with them and just over 2,200fps with the 286's using the same load. A M98 9.3x57 might get upwards of 2,250 with the 300's.

I have some cup-pointed 300gr. Interbonds I should send him to test for penetration and expansion.

Note the velocities I'm getting in my rifle may not be safe in other M46's. My rifle has a .370" groove diameter along with the normal .358" bore. The rifling is very deep but the chamber won't allow a round with a bullet larger than .367" to be chambered, so that's what I swage the .375's to.

At 2,200fps to 2,250fps with 300gr. bullets, that old 9.3x57 (model '98 action) matches some of the old GREATS mentioned in John Taylor's book. Some of the .33's.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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9.3x57
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Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: Ripp]
      #119268 - 21/11/08 04:09 AM

Quote:

I do know, as Darryl suggested..the reports and articles I have read on comparison tests..the Barnes does very well in total inches of penetration...guess this might be another test for 9.3x57 to do...

Take care

Ripp



I tested the TSX in .375 cal. Interestingly, penetration was similar to other premium bullets.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....3e676374dc91c77

Other .375 series for comparison:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....3e676374dc91c77

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....3e676374dc91c77

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: DarylS]
      #119315 - 22/11/08 07:29 AM

Quote:

Ripp - the trouble I see with the 9.3x57, is the low velocity and possible refusal to expand or very limited expansion with a X type bullets.

I figure, in a '98 action's 9.3x57, the 250gr. Barnes TX might achieve around 2,450fps to maybe 2,500fps, same speed I drive 232gr. Vulcans and swaged 225gr. Hornady SP's in my M46 Husky. BLC2 and H4895 seem to work the best. I should include Varget in there as well as I use it with 286gr. and 300gr. swaged Hornady's.

I'm not conviced a premium bullet is needed in this sedate round, unless one wishes to break down heavy game with large bone hits. That's where the X-type bullet really shines. I think a 300gr.RN Hornady, swaged or drawn down to .366" will give all the penetration needed. In Rod's tests, it beat all his tested bullets so far, including the .375's for total penetration. He was only driving them at 2,050fps. My M46 Husky makes 2,175fps with them and just over 2,200fps with the 286's using the same load. A M98 9.3x57 might get upwards of 2,250 with the 300's.

I have some cup-pointed 300gr. Interbonds I should send him to test for penetration and expansion.

Note the velocities I'm getting in my rifle may not be safe in other M46's. My rifle has a .370" groove diameter along with the normal .358" bore. The rifling is very deep but the chamber won't allow a round with a bullet larger than .367" to be chambered, so that's what I swage the .375's to.

At 2,200fps to 2,250fps with 300gr. bullets, that old 9.3x57 (model '98 action) matches some of the old GREATS mentioned in John Taylor's book. Some of the .33's.


+++++++++++++++

You are exactely correct--which is what I was thinking of when I mentioned I had the bullet running around 3650 fps--the only time I have heard of any complaints is on the higher velocity calibers..

I ran some accubonds in my 300 Ultra-mag in '04 on plains game in Zim. Poor perfomance--again, 180gr at close to 3400 fps--very little penetration..in fact I switched to my .416 Rem for the remainder of the trip..on everything from plains game to buffalo..

The nosler partition is another good example--been a great bullet forever--provided it is fired at 3100 fps or less..IMHO..

Thx
Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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dale
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Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: Ripp]
      #119333 - 22/11/08 06:26 PM

Great pictures,,,great buck and god, what beautiful country.

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Barnes Triple X--in the field perfomance [Re: dale]
      #119345 - 23/11/08 06:32 AM

Per our conversation on this topic--I found this info --thought it fit and interesting..showing the comparative exit holes..I realize there can be a ton of variances that could change the results..but taking it for what it is..interesting, none the less..

Ripp




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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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