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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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crusty
.224 member


Reged: 06/06/08
Posts: 29
Loc: New Zealand
1st Double Rifle - Photos added
      #116179 - 03/10/08 09:46 AM

Just picked up my first double rifle, I had the choice of two, but could only afford the cheaper one.

The rifle is marked "C.Grundig Hofbuchsenmacher Dresden".
The calibre is about .450, straight case Henry rifled.

Horn underlever, hammer gun, replacement hammers, one mainspring broken. Set triggers. Engraving looks OK, stags, boars etc.

The stock is not the prettiest, but it is still better than not having a double!

I will take some photos soon.

Any suggestions what cartridge to look at would help.







Edited by crusty (03/10/08 11:52 AM)

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 1st Double Rifle [Re: crusty]
      #116184 - 03/10/08 11:07 AM

Congratulations Crusty!

First thing for you to do with the chambers is to cast them with Cerrosafe (or similar)

Here's a link to another thread here on NitroExpress, started by a fellow who just got a nice .450 double rifle and wasn't sure what round it'd take.

See if there's something in there for you.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39885
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 1st Double Rifle [Re: tinker]
      #116194 - 03/10/08 01:09 PM

Crusty

A nice old traditional one! Any idea of the age? Anyone?

Good luck with getting it shooting and later hunting with it.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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crusty
.224 member


Reged: 06/06/08
Posts: 29
Loc: New Zealand
Re: 1st Double Rifle [Re: NitroX]
      #116197 - 03/10/08 01:32 PM

I saw somwhere that Carl Grundig was a gunmaker from about 1880 to 1939 when the war started, then of course Dresden was bombed in 1945.

The cartridge could be proprietry, as I see on an International Ammunition Association forum listing that Grundig had at least one of his own cartridges made by H.UTENDOERFFER around 1900

The doll's head & action are marked CROWN over V - does anyone know what this means?

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ChrisPer
.300 member


Reged: 12/05/08
Posts: 235
Loc: Australia
Re: 1st Double Rifle [Re: crusty]
      #116198 - 03/10/08 03:25 PM

Crusty, I love your rifle! The engraving appears rather stylish. I got my Cerrosafe here:
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,1143.html

Its an excellent medium, but you can also use stuff like Sulphur which can be had at a local garden shop, today, for less money. Sorry, I don't know what its shrinksge factor is but not hard to find out.

Use a micrometer to measure, I wasted time with a vernier but it just messed me around. I got a good one off eBay actually, but so many people can let you use theirs for 20 minutes.

My bore slugs were made by using 11/11.5/12 mm drills in hardwood, melting a 220gn cast bullet and pouring the lot into the hardwood hole. take care not to try and beat too big a slug through, little is easy. Best if you can get one is a round ball of pure lead such as you would use in a .50 patchball M/L rifle.

Until you have the cast measurements, it can only be speculation what cartridge it uses; but with a vernier you can measure the rim and body diameter at the mouth of the chamber, the rim depth, and the depth to the case mouth step in the chamber. That woul dgive a couple of clues.

If you don't have COTW, try here for an incomlete Google books preview:
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=UoWa...44HOY2wK5IOQGhw

Or here for a good source to buy it: http://huntingbooks.com.au/

I have to say, I was really pleased with Bruce Bertram having the cases I wanted, in stock and ready to ship. Although 20 of them cost $95, the alternatives were all tedious and unsatisfactory by comparison.

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450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: 1st Double Rifle [Re: crusty]
      #116221 - 04/10/08 04:08 AM

Quote:

I saw somwhere that Carl Grundig was a gunmaker from about 1880 to 1939 when the war started, then of course Dresden was bombed in 1945.

The cartridge could be proprietry, as I see on an International Ammunition Association forum listing that Grundig had at least one of his own cartridges made by H.UTENDOERFFER around 1900

The doll's head & action are marked CROWN over V - does anyone know what this means?



The V would indicate that its pre april 1893 as it is the first proofmark used in germany and the law came in 1891 so probably 1891-1893 and the V stands for "Vorath" = in stock. That meens that it was in stock 1.jan-1.april 1893 when the law came into full action.

The underlevel seems long is its a slide and tilt system as the collath?

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9034
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: 1st Double Rifle [Re: 450_366]
      #116223 - 04/10/08 04:35 AM

Gründig, Hofbüchsenmacher ( gunmaker of the king of saxony) was the inventor of the 10,75x65R, the today unknow rimmed version of the 10,75x68. also the shorter 10,75x52R and the 10,75x60R

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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88MauSporter
.375 member


Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas
Re: 1st Double Rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #116227 - 04/10/08 07:51 AM

Wonderful Double gun. It is likely one of the german / Bavarian cartrdges. The cast with ferosage is a good idea to start. If you have this, Rocky Mountain cartridge can make brass. A bit pricey at $64.00 per 20, but it has put my 9.5X56R in my combo back to shooting. My combo looks similar to your double rifle. These can be great guns. The actions (similar to jones underlever) are strong and stay tight with normal loads. Let us know more. I will post some of my photos and the building of loads.
You should get a copy of the book European Sporting Cartridges once you do the cast. You can ID your cartridge from the measurements. Some of these cases can be made from .444 marlin. Some from .43 Mauser, and others are actually derived from the .450 BP Express of the UK.
Good shooting once you get it going.








--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

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crusty
.224 member


Reged: 06/06/08
Posts: 29
Loc: New Zealand
Re: 1st Double Rifle [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #116342 - 06/10/08 07:16 AM

Hi Andreas,

Thanks for the info, maybe my rifle is older than I thought! I will take some more photos & hopefully guys can give me some more clues about it.

The action is hinged, it doesn't slide when opened.

I like your combo, 88.

I have slugged the bore, eight groove Henry style rifling the bore measures at .470" (11.94mm), the grooves (corners?) measure .486" (12.36mm).

I will try & import some cerrosafe, I don't think it is available in New Zealand, but from what I can measure, the case length is 60mm & head size is same as a .450 No1 rifle (very good fit in chamber), smaller than a .450 Express, but slightly larger than a .43 Mauser. I think a 43 Mauser case would be a good start.

Has anyone tried welding a broken mainspring?

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: 1st Double Rifle [Re: crusty]
      #116344 - 06/10/08 07:58 AM

Great guns, all.

One idea for slugging the bore is to use a fishing weight. Get the ones that are conical or teardrop-shaped. They are pure lead, very soft and if just a little too big to be started in the bore, can be rolled under a file on top of a steel plate or anvil. Best of all, many different sizes are made, so usually you can find one that works well with no need to reduce its size.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: 1st Double Rifle [Re: 9.3x57]
      #116370 - 06/10/08 01:38 PM

Thanks for that fishing weight idea !
In NZ just get some Sulphur powder & melt it down , you can add a bit of grahpite powder to ,but it is not needed !
Nice looking old shooter you have there !

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Redleg6
.224 member


Reged: 01/01/06
Posts: 22
Loc: Heart of the Ozarks
Re: 1st Double Rifle [Re: Sarg]
      #120043 - 02/12/08 01:28 PM

You might consider speaking with your dentist. Dental impression material, sometimes call rubber base, is extremely dimensionally accurate as it is used to make dental crowns and bridges accurate to less than 0.1mm. I have used it for the chamber and for the bore with good results. It is not as messy as melting down lead or other metals and....it smells good.

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peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: 1st Double Rifle [Re: Redleg6]
      #120072 - 02/12/08 08:19 PM

or take a candel, melt it, put toilet paper in barrel just after chamber, pur candel in, let it harden, push it out with a cleaning rod. thats a chamber cast for you.

best

peter

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