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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Shotguns
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michael3006
.224 member


Reged: 26/09/08
Posts: 1
Loc: Queensland
Powerful shotgun loads in 12g
      #115630 - 27/09/08 06:22 AM

Hi, I just found this forum and the information here is first class.
It's been years since I used a shotgun, infact about 16years to be accurate. Shooting bunnies outside of Inverness in Scotland. They were fast and very gun shy as the farmer enjoyed shooting them for the pot. Number 4 duck shot was the best medicine to give me the edge I needed.
So using a shotgun now in Far north Queensland Australia is very different. Can anyone advise me on the most powerful load combination for a sub 60m shot. I have been looking and the advertising Hype is enormous. I will be using a 20 inch O/U scrub gun in 12g It is not a rifled barrel but does have screw in choke tubes so I can purchase a rifled choke. The quarry will be wild cattle. Thankyou for any advise

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Powerful shotgun loads in 12g [Re: michael3006]
      #115695 - 28/09/08 01:36 AM

Probably your starting point would be a 338 Winchester Mag loaded with 250 or 300 gn projectiles.

Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Powerful shotgun loads in 12g [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #115757 - 28/09/08 07:29 PM

Al's right!

But if you choose to use the shottie, you will need a true solid slug like the Brenneke or S-ball. I cannot stress this strongly enough!! Stay away from the 'hollow' slugs like the Winchester Foster slug, also the PMC slug, and on no account should scrub cattle be 'annoyed' with the RC4 offering!

Another member here, DarylS, has plenty of good things to say about shooting spherical-ball handloads in the smooth-bore, although my own attempts have not managed to duplicate his accuracy benchmarks. You could search for his posts, or simple stand by: I'm sure he'll chime in soon.

Not meaning to be negative, but you may not find rifled chokes as simple a solution as you hope. Most of the US offerings are designed for a single barrel (pump or auto): many extend slightly and a pair may not fit into your stack-barrel. Even if they do, regulation will be hit-and-miss! Perhaps a single rifled choke would work OK, with the second barrel for prodding distance if things go pear-shaped.

Personally I think you are taking an unnecessary risk if you plan to walk-up scrub cattle on foot and engage them at close range with a shotgun. But hey, some people hang-glide.....

On a more positive note, welcome to the NE forums. Let us know what you end up with, and photos of guns and vanquished quarry are pretty-much mandatory around here!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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bigger_is_best
.275 member


Reged: 16/01/07
Posts: 82
Loc: Australia
Re: Powerful shotgun loads in 12g [Re: Marrakai]
      #115848 - 29/09/08 04:10 PM

Have to agree that the thimble like forster slugs are not reliable. I was very impressed with the useably accuracy of both Remington and the reloads from Lee moulds, and started carrying some of them along with a few OO buck when I was out after rabbits, just in case. UNTIL at a range of between 40 and 50 meters I fired a round from a 28" full choke single barrel into the shoulder of a pig that had bolted from wallowing in a dam. I knew he would hit a fence and need to turn, so I settled in and waited for the shot. Pig was on his second step after doing 90 degree turn, slow, clear, side on target. At the shot I heard the slug thump home and saw him dropp sideways, looked down as I reloaded, and when I looked back he was up and off. I followed him 120 yards into scrub without getting a second shot and lost him, so went back to where I hit him to find blood trail. No blood, but what I did find was the slug, flattened at a sideways angle, laying on top of the baked clay, with clay and hair matted into it. Obviously at that range, just short of 50 meters, the penetration was zero. Although I could not get a clear second shot there was no sign of serious injury like broken bones in the way the pig moved.
I became less inclined to follow pig sign into dense blackberries with just the single barrel and slugs after that.

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Yogi000
.333 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 265
Loc: New York, USA
Re: Powerful shotgun loads in 12g [Re: bigger_is_best]
      #118252 - 04/11/08 02:30 AM

michael-- That shotgun loaded up with Brenneke 3 Inch Magnum BLACK MAGIC slugs will be a hell of a performer. I am not sure if your shotgun is chambered for 3 inch, however if it is--you have a factory slug recommendation there. It is an ounce and as eighth of hardened lead and is a hell of a load.

If you can load your own BALLISTIC PRODUCTS has everything you need to make DANGEROUS GAME 12 gauge slugs that can match or maybe even exceed the BRENNEKE BLACKS.

I have a 23 inch barreled side by side 12 gauge smooth bore shotgun. OPEN CHOKE.

For those big massive slugs you do NOT want to have any choke. My side by side can shoot clover leafs at 50 yards with those brenneke slugs!

A hell of a kick though! I installed a mechanial recoil reducer and a Pachmayr High End Recoil Pad and that gun is NOW tame, though and I can shoot the big slugs all day. Before those two improvements the Big Slugs would knock very hard and I would guess your shorty 20 inch barreled over and under is VERY light and you will need to make some improvements like I did to make the Recoil of BIG SLUGS manageable in that shorty over and under. Good Luck!

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Powerful shotgun loads in 12g [Re: Yogi000]
      #118257 - 04/11/08 04:07 AM

Hello Michael - I have "0" experience shooting cattle with anything, but I like Alan's suggestion immensely.
Yogi has done excellent work on his double, as has Alan with his pelters.

If restricted to a shotgun, I would be very much inclined to go with load developed WW (wheel-weight - crimp on type only) cast round balls. I trust their penetration over any conical, however the Lyman sabot slug and those hardened Brenneke's sound as if they may have a future as well.

A bore size round ball, held in a 'cup' of some sort to help keep it centred in the bore is the way to go in my neck of the woods. Here, I only have grizzlies to worry about - no wild cattle - guess the grizzlies ate them all.
This 'cup' I speak of can be the base gas check portion of a plastic trap wad, or a similar item purchased from wad producing companies. Lyman shotshell handbooks give good loading data for slug loads. As the other's have suggested, nay, stated, do not attempt to shoot anything remotely dangerous with Foster slugs. Sometimes - sometimes, the 1 1/4oz Federal Fosters will work - sometimes. Winhester even as a high velocity 1 oz. to make it flatten into a pancake faster - oh boy! You want penetration. You already have size. So - a .715" RB at 545gr. pure, about 525gr. in alloyed lead (WW), to a .729" - about 580gr. travelling at 1,500fps will do the job - be it wild cattle, grizzly, Indian Elephant, tiger or whatever.

If you want the simplest of loading, use black powder - up to 7 drams in a 2 3/4" case. You can get this power level using black powder or it's substitutes, but trust me, smokeless powder kicks a LOT less giving the same power. With smokeless powder, you'll need to develope a wad column that fills the space between the powder and the base of the ball at proper crimp height. Lyman sells a roll-crimp tool that works in a drill press, or you can adjust the wad column to use a folded crimp.
I use a normal folded crimp with a slight 'twist'. I use a slightly high wad column so after crimping, the ball is seen in the middle of the crimp. That just makes it easy to see what the load is, shot or ball. Guess I could take a picture, eh?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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