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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado
Mauser at Cabelas
      #114891 - 20/09/08 01:03 AM

This looks like a Kurz action to me. Although it is a large ring which doesn't jive with the Kurz action - they were all small ring, right?
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/conten...erarchyId=10473
What do you other guys think?

If so, very rare and not a bad price. I will try to visually compare it to a Kurz action I know of.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

Edited by Huvius (20/09/08 01:14 AM)

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dons
.333 member


Reged: 18/08/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Essex
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: Huvius]
      #114898 - 20/09/08 03:00 AM

A large ring Kurz would be an extreme rarity. I believe this rifle is correctly described as an intermediate action in 7x57 and fairly priced.

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Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: dons]
      #114916 - 20/09/08 08:39 AM

Respectfully I have to disagree.

That seems like a heck of a lot of money for a poorly refinished gun. The stock finish is amateurish and the stock has been sanded to where the metal is well proud of the wood. If you enlarge the tang area and the butt plate it is quite poor.The cheek piece has been rounded off quite badly.

If you check the latest London auction catalogues Mod B's dont make that money in that condition.

Regards

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: Bramble]
      #114928 - 20/09/08 10:40 AM

Bramble,

I think it is an America Vs Britain thing. Some rifles that are very reasonably priced in the UK are very expensive over here. A friend of mine sold a MacNaughton Bar in Wood shotgun in the UK to an American lady for what he thought was a superb profit and she came here and sold the same gun at an auction for something like five times what she had paid him for it. I had to think long and hard before telling my friend about the final selling price and giving him a link to the auction results and you can imagine how disappointed he was when he saw what the gun went for.

Just my 2c here.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #114930 - 20/09/08 10:51 AM



mehulkamdar

Rule No 1 of selling guns. Once you've decided on a sell price you are happy with, be happy with it and always leave something in it.

If she had the brains to work out the market and do that,
good on her but he shouldn't complain or he should have done it himself.

Just my HO.

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: 500Nitro]
      #114931 - 20/09/08 10:56 AM

500 Nitro,

My point in telling the gent in the UK about the final selling price was to keep him from selling any guns as achingly beautiful as the MacNaughton in the future.

I think it worked.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #114932 - 20/09/08 11:00 AM

I see a flight to the US with a very large suitcase in my future :-)

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peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: Bramble]
      #114952 - 20/09/08 05:50 PM

dont bother bramble

the batf has in there wisdom banned mausers with thumb cutouts, you cant export them to the US even if you wanted to

peter

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Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: peter]
      #114963 - 20/09/08 08:37 PM

But the 404 and the 318WR are on commercials Peter :-)

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: peter]
      #114987 - 20/09/08 11:52 PM

Peter,

It is not Mausers with thumbcuts that have been banned, but some idiots at one of New York airports (why am I surprised by this?) stalled imports of Mauser sporters in calibres like 8x57 JS some time ago calling them "military weapons." Other calibres (I think the consignment was from Brno) like 9.3x62 were let through until the matter was appealed and fought by the NRA and cleared up.

The world's bureaucracies do attract special idiots and New York must attract the worst. I won't buy any product or service from that sh1tp)t or from COmmiefornia or Taxachussetts if I can help it. I also request other gun owners to think about doing this.

Bramble,

Good luck with selling guns here. Hope you get the best prices for them.

Good hunting, gentlemen!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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bouldersmith
.375 member


Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 627
Loc: Boulder Colorado
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #115029 - 21/09/08 10:50 AM

I spoke to the lady in charge of imports at the BATF regarding the ruling on Mausers. What she told me was any mauser that was once a military action and has then been sporterized is not eligible for importation. If you can prove that the gun started out life as a commercial action you can import it. Actions with stripper clip slots and thumb cuts are considered military actions, unless marked otherwise through proof marks, etc. Its a crappy ruling but one we have to live with at least for the time being.
Steve

--------------------
New website http://www.bertramandco.com

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MarinePMI
.275 member


Reged: 21/04/08
Posts: 92
Loc: San Diego, CA USA
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: bouldersmith]
      #115194 - 23/09/08 04:42 AM

BS is correct (AFAIK). This is why the Martini Cadet actions have dried up, as most have been rebarreled and are non-importable now.

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MarinePMI

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Stephen_Palos
.224 member


Reged: 11/10/08
Posts: 40
Loc: South Africa
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: MarinePMI]
      #116803 - 13/10/08 05:09 AM

I've taken John Speed's Original Sporting Mauser's page 92 and worked out the ratios with a ruler.

It's an intermediate by my maths but I did fail math at school....

--------------------
I hunt because I am human, so hunting is an expression of my humanity.

Edited by Stephen_Palos (13/10/08 05:14 AM)

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Stephen_Palos
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Reged: 11/10/08
Posts: 40
Loc: South Africa
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: Stephen_Palos]
      #116804 - 13/10/08 05:25 AM

On the issue of importing these fine old rifles, heres some stuff I placed on AR a while back...

I saw this a while back and enquired from your ATF what it was all about.

Here is the original e-mail and reply:

From: Stephen Palos [mailto:weldec@worldonline.co.za]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:59 AM
To: EPS Directorate
Subject: Question re ruling on K98 Mauser Rifles.



Dear Sir



Whilst perusing the web site of a British Firearm auctioneer I came across the following statement:



IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR U.S. BIDDERS. Please note that under current rulings enforced by BATF any Mauser 98 actioned sporting rifle REGARDLESS OF ORIGINAL APPLICATION that has a thumb recess in the sidewall and loading-clip cut-out in the rear bridge will be refused an import permit into the United States.

As I am considering placing some old sporting Mauser rifles with this company for sale, and as the United States is a critically important collectors market, I would be pleased if the rationale behind this ruling could be explained to me.



Kind Regards



Stephen Palos
2782 905 7400

Randfontein

South Africa
------------------------------------------

ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch has advised that Mauser rifle receivers with the receiver thumb cut out design feature were intended to be military receivers. 18 U.S.C. 925(d)(3) prohibits the importation of surplus military firearms. However, as ATF Ruling 85-10 describes, Title 18 was amended to allow licensed importers to import curios and relics, excluding handguns not generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes. The amendment had the effect of allowing the importation of surplus military curio and relic firearms that were previously prohibited from importation under 18 U.S.C. 925(d)(3). In classifying firearms as curios and relics under this regulation, ATF has recognized only assembled firearms as curios and relics. Surplus military firearms will not be classified as curios and relics unless they are assembled in their original military configuration and applications for permits to import such firearms will not be approved.



Should you have any additional questions, please contact the Firearms and Explosives Imports Branch at (304) 616-4550 and ask to speak with a Specialist.





From: EPS Directorate
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:48 AM
To: FES Division
Subject: FW: Question re ruling on K98 Mauser Rifles. -- IMP

--------------------
I hunt because I am human, so hunting is an expression of my humanity.

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Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: Stephen_Palos]
      #116810 - 13/10/08 06:12 AM

As I read this thread.

You cannot import a surplus military 98 action into the states.

You can import a complete Mauser 98 rilfe even if it is a military arm (relic and curio)

You can import a London/Birmingham rifle on a thumb cut 98 action if it bears civilian proof marks (ie all London/Birmingham sporting Mausers)even though that action may have at one time been a military action and/or identical to a military action.

Is this how others read this ??

Regards

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peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: Bramble]
      #116818 - 13/10/08 06:56 AM

thumbcuts = military action = no-go

peter

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shinz
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Reged: 11/05/08
Posts: 135
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: Stephen_Palos]
      #116847 - 13/10/08 07:02 PM

Quote:

Surplus military firearms will not be classified as curios and relics unless they are assembled in their original military configuration and applications for permits to import such firearms will not be approved.




That says to me that military surplus will only be admitted as a curio & relic if it is complete in its original military form. That at least seems clear enough. It would also be useful to see a response from BATF about rifles built on actions which have seen of military use even if they are of similar form. I'm picking you would need to ID someone in the organisation who can actually understand what is being got at here. The non firearms savvy types would probably never get their heads around this.
Steve

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Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: shinz]
      #116859 - 13/10/08 10:45 PM

What I am getting at is that almost every BA rifle has a military application in one country or another.

An action that was purchased from Mauser and configured into a sporting rifle by a London gunmaker is not a "surplus military action" anymore than Roosevelts 03 Springfield.

It is just an action pulled from the production line for other purposes.

A London proof Mauser cannot by definition be a "surplus military action" as Mausers were never issued to the British Army in any configuration at any time.

Also in calibers other than 6.5 x 55, 7 x 57, 8 x 57, 30-06, 7.62, 45-70 again they are civilian rifles as they are not chambered for a cartridge of military issue.

With the greatest of respect to our US collegues, for a nation that is supose to have " government, of the people, for the people and by the people", it is about time somebody told the US state department and the ATF to take a flying fuck at themselves.
This law was suposed to prevent a flood of cheep chineese AK47/74 clones from getting into the hands of gangsters, its use in this fashion is an abuse of power.

Regards

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: Bramble]
      #116861 - 13/10/08 10:49 PM

Quote:

With the greatest of respect to our US collegues, for a nation that is supose to have " government, of the people, for the people and by the people", it is about time somebody told the US state department and the ATF to take a flying fuck at themselves.
This law was suposed to prevent a flood of cheep chineese AK47/74 clones from getting into the hands of gangsters, its use in this fashion is an abuse of power.




Well said!

Sadly, I hate to think the direction we will go if Obama gets elected. We will then have radical dems in the White House and controlling Congress. Jeez!

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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450_366
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Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: CptCurl]
      #116866 - 14/10/08 12:06 AM

Every goverment in any country would use a law like that to control any possible import of
weapon. And US would try the hardest of them all. If the law allows the citisens to rise against its goverment with arms, why wouldnt the goverment try to disarm them?

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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Bramble
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Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Mauser at Cabelas [Re: 450_366]
      #116868 - 14/10/08 12:41 AM

450 366

Because the puropse of government is to serve the people. They govern BY CONSENT or at least that was the intention of every system of democracy when it was first instituted.

That a government should be concerned about armed insurection by its own people is an outright condemnation of those that seek to govern knowing that they have not our consent.

No government that fufills the will of the electorate would fear an armed populus.

The Swiss government apparently has no fear of every adult male citizen posessing an automatic weapon.

Regards

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