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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder
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tarawa
.333 member


Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
making solid black powder loads
      #114231 - 12/09/08 05:00 AM

I read somewhere on the internet about disolving ping pong balls (cellulose) in acetone, then adding black powder to the mixture for a propellant. I am not sure what the propelant was used for though. Does anyone think that the mixture could be cast into cylindrical pieces and used in a muzzleloader?

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bigger_is_best
.275 member


Reged: 16/01/07
Posts: 82
Loc: Australia
Re: making solid black powder loads [Re: tarawa]
      #114236 - 12/09/08 07:04 AM

Unlikely to be succesful. The powder burns on the surface. Making a single lump reduces the surface. Would be like setting fire to a folded newspaper compared to setting fire to the individual pages crumpled up. It might burn, but will take much longer. I think you will find the single piece charges made comercialy will either have a porous spongy nature, or more likely will have additional chemicals to control the burn rate. Where single pieces are usefull is in things like rocket motors, where the burn is up a central hole, and as the powder burns the hole gets bigger, giving progressively more surface and afaster burn.
I also think you will find ping pong balls are not cellulose. They may be nitro-cellulose, but if so this is chemicaly similar to smokeless powder or some explosives, and it may not be a good idea to add such material to a blackpowder gun.

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MacNaughton360
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Reged: 10/12/07
Posts: 99
Loc: Indiana, USA
Re: making solid black powder loads [Re: bigger_is_best]
      #114243 - 12/09/08 09:39 AM

How about celluloid or cellulose nitrate? (see the link)
http://www.science.edu.sg/ssc/detailed.jsp?artid=4058&type=6&root=3&parent=3&cat=32

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beleg2
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Reged: 15/08/07
Posts: 591
Loc: Bahía Blanca - Argentina
Re: making solid black powder loads [Re: bigger_is_best]
      #114244 - 12/09/08 09:44 AM

Tarawa,
Is this for the Kodiak?
I will post some black powder solid charges for revolver I get some years ago. The trick is that when you compress the charge you brake it to powder again.
I think it will not work on the Kodiak because the breek style, like a "patent breech".
What works for me is the use ot preweighted (and measured) charges in a plastic container like the ones used for pills.
I could not find a way to keep my fingers ungreased when I take the bullets.
Martin

Edited by beleg2 (12/09/08 09:45 AM)

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tarawa
.333 member


Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: making solid black powder loads [Re: beleg2]
      #114247 - 12/09/08 10:55 AM

Martin,
Your older post about those solid charges got me thinking...and that could be dangerous! I will roll some paper chargers as in the other post. I am going to turn a perfect .715 dowel on the lathe for starters.

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beleg2
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Reged: 15/08/07
Posts: 591
Loc: Bahía Blanca - Argentina
Re: making solid black powder loads [Re: tarawa]
      #114282 - 12/09/08 10:04 PM

As promised a French solid load for .36 revolver and my double containers (two containers glued together):



I would like to ad this picture taken from the BPHA magazine:



Thanks
Martin

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Dphariss
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Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Montana
Re: making solid black powder loads [Re: beleg2]
      #114283 - 12/09/08 11:13 PM

Trying to shoot "pellets" in a conventional ML is probably a waste of time.
You must be very careful playing with binders and such. Adding things to propellants can be a *big* mistake.
First it plays with the burn rate of the propellant. BP is a surface burning propellant its burn rate is largely controlled by grain size. In guns shooting RBs the burn rate could be too slow to produce good velocity regardless of charge weight unless the pellet breaks when the pressure increases.
In cartridges this can be made to work and perhaps in inline MLs. In a conventional ML the breeching relies on the powder grains getting close to the ignition source. With a solid pellet this is impossible.
Compressed pellets of powder were known and used prior to our Civil War. Powder for large cannon was not granulated as is the blackpowder used in smaller cannon or small arms. It was formed into grains during the pressing stage. Some of these were the size of small apples.
This was done to try to control breech pressures in Naval guns using heavy projectiles and huge charges of powder.
The 303 British cartridge originally used a compressed pellet of BP with a hole up it middle to promote burning. But a 303 cartridge is not a ML. Greener's "The Gun and Its Development" has a wood cut showing BP pellets.
If you need more performance use Swiss powder.
The paper cartridge is a good way to rapidly reload a rifle or smoothbore for a faster second shot. I do not believe it is practical in the rifle for "normal" use.

Dan

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