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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: New Toy, Take II [Re: Glenn_Fewless]
      #117052 - 16/10/08 10:53 AM

Glenn.

That accout of the compitition you wrote. The problem in degrading accuracy from 900-1000yds, was that the load dropping below the sound barrier between that yardage, it can do funny things to accuracy at that point. It could be that the BC of the lighter head could not sustain supersonic to that range.

Quote "There is something about that last 100 yards of air between 900 and 1000 that really has an effect on the bullets flight to a much greater degree than the extra 100 yards would dictate. In this case I think that 900 yards was about the limit of the load I was using. Even in good conditions at 1000 I was using the whole target, and when conditions worsened I was not able to hold the target. The .45-70 is not the ideal long range cartridge and I was experimenting with a relatively light bullet at higher velocity." End quote

Regards

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belgmart
.275 member


Reged: 29/02/04
Posts: 78
Re: New Toy, Take II [Re: Bramble]
      #117093 - 17/10/08 06:03 AM

Bramble,

Sorry to disagree with you, but any and all BP load would be already quite a long while subsonic before getting to 900... Typically, even the best and fastest LR BP loads will go drop through the sound barrier before getting to 300 meters, and most even before the 200 mark (remember, 1120fps), and that might even be stretching it for a 45-70. Typically, bullets arrive at 1,000 around 800-850 fps.

--------------------
Martini's Rule!

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: New Toy, Take II [Re: Glenn_Fewless]
      #117221 - 19/10/08 01:08 PM

Quote:

Mike:

I believe this Bob E. is from Anchorage.

BTW, methinks your barrel is about to manifest itself here. I got a letter...

Glenn




Cool!!! Now if I can get my hands on some of that new Hornady 450 NE brass and send it your way......

I'm still not in a rush about it either.. "If and when" is fine..

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Glenn_Fewless
.300 member


Reged: 08/05/08
Posts: 103
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Re: New Toy, Take II [Re: AkMike]
      #117816 - 29/10/08 03:27 AM

AkMike:

Have you changed your email address, or are you just out having more fun than you should be allowed to have? I sent an email a while back and have not heard from you. Please write when you find time. gfewless@tds.net

Glenn

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Bramble
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Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: New Toy, Take II [Re: Glenn_Fewless]
      #117819 - 29/10/08 04:17 AM

I appologise Glen I should have read your post better. It never occured to me that it was a slower BP load.
It is a phenomonon well known with HVCF loads and I made an incorrect assumption.
I stand corrected.

Regards

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Glenn_Fewless
.300 member


Reged: 08/05/08
Posts: 103
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Re: New Toy, Take II [Re: Bramble]
      #117860 - 29/10/08 04:27 PM

Mr. Bramble:

No problem at all. I knew is was not the transonic transition, as that takes place at about 200 yard. Howsomever, I do not know what it is that causes the phenomenon, but it is not my personal hallucination. Anybody who has shot Creedmoor matches with these rifles has noticed it. The increase in the difficulty of the target at 1000 is much greater than the increase in distance from 900 would dictate. I have some theories and guesses as to why this is so, but that is all they are.

In this particular case, I suspect it is nothing more exotic than the bullet slowing to the point it was starting to become unstable. Not to the point of tumbling, but enough so it was more easily moved by the winds. Of course, it is just barely conceivable that the whole thing was an operator malfunction, but I am telling the story and the load can't defend itself...

I have seen certain loads do that before, and those well within the normal accepted parameters of workable 1K loads. Actually more so, as in one case a load that was shooting exceptionally well at 900 was actually tumbling an hour later at 1000. We really know very little about transonic and subsonic ballistics. Most ballistic research is done by the military and everything they have is supersonic.

I have decided to leave the rifle as is for a mid range and Silhouette rifle. I shot it at a silhouette match a week ago and it performed quite well. I believe I will rebarrel my heavy long range rifle to make the 13 pound weight limit and go back to that one for Creedmoor.

Best regards,

Glenn

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: New Toy, Take II [Re: Bramble]
      #119319 - 22/11/08 10:52 AM

Quote:

I appologise Glen I should have read your post better. It never occured to me that it was a slower BP load.
It is a phenomonon well known with HVCF loads and I made an incorrect assumption.
I stand corrected.

Regards




Sorry for the delay Glenn. I've been out of town but I sent a reply this am.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Caprivi
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Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...
Re: New Toy, Take II [Re: AkMike]
      #119948 - 01/12/08 01:52 PM

Great gun Glenn, just awesome. The Wesson action has my attention. I remember them from years back when Steve announced them. What are your thoughts on one as a basis for a classic african style hunting weight 450 or 303. Vaguely reminensant of a Deely and Edge side hammer action. Are they still in the 1100.00us range ??? Who inletted the wood and will they do another ???

All this said this is my dream gun
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/conten..._wr1897_whe.jsp

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

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Glenn_Fewless
.300 member


Reged: 08/05/08
Posts: 103
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Re: New Toy, Take II [Re: Caprivi]
      #119962 - 01/12/08 05:00 PM

Mr. Caprivi:


Thanks!

The Wesson could be made up into a sporting rifle along the lines of an Alexander Henry. Mr. Bouldersmith is in the process of doing just that right now. There are a couple others I know of as well. I am currently restoring an original Alex Henry sporting rifle and it is a real nice rifle.

Perhaps the essential "African" rifle is the Farquharson, or a Westley Richard '97 like the one at Cabela's. (which they are mighty proud of!) Both a Farquharson and a '97 reproduction are alleged to be in the works... as is a Fraser, but they are a ways off if ever. I thought the Fraser would be available soon but it seems there has been a snag.

I believe the Wesson is $1500 now, and is a steal at that price.

Glenn

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