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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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hansol
.224 member


Reged: 15/08/08
Posts: 33
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Lanber Double Rifle Build
      #111848 - 15/08/08 06:05 AM

Hey everyone!

This is my first post here at the forum. I've been lurking for a while, reading as much as I can about doubles, but have finally reached a point where I need some input and advice.

After having just completed a fully custom 375 Taylor bolt rifle, I am now moving on to a much bigger undertaking. Basically I am looking at building a "poor man's double", using a Lanber "Supreme" spanish SxS 12 gauge shotgun as the action. It fires 3" shells, and is of fairly new vintage, ie no damascus barrels or such.

That being said, I have no real idea whether or not this is a decent action to use. I am way out of my lane when it comes to double rifles and "proof marks" and "boxlocks" etc, as I am more of a bolt rifle guy. So this is where I could use you members' input and advice. And I have a thick skin, so if anything I am doing is crazy or rediculous, by all means, let me know.

Basically my plan is to either insert a set of sleeves into the shotgun, or rig up my own monoblock, depending on what opinions and advice I get here. I don't have a caliber picked yet, as I don't know what kind of pressures my action will be able to handle. That being said, I am not adverse to the "low pressure-big calibre" route. My goal would be to have anything from a 400-600gr bullet at speeds around 2000fps.

Below are pictures of the action, as well as the markings on the action. The face (I think that is what it's called) of the action measures 2 1/4" or 6.8cm across.

Please let me hear any thoughts/opinions/rants, as I am very much a rookie when it comes to this aspect. That being said, I have read a bit, as well as thumbed through "Building Double Rifles on Shotgun Actions", so I do have a very basic grasp of the concepts. Thanks very much -Cameron

the action


markings


face


barrel proofs



locking mechanism



Edited by hansol (15/08/08 06:49 AM)

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450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: Lanber Double Rifle Build [Re: hansol]
      #111857 - 15/08/08 07:29 AM

The only advice i could give you is to not sleave the old barrels, that is if you not planning to build a 16 bore. It will be to barrel heavy and wont have any balanco left. I now as i did it and wasnt pleased with the result. I would cut the old ones and use it as a monoblock for a ,577 or something like that, but not sure if you are able to pusch it to 2000fps with safety.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Lanber Double Rifle Build [Re: 450_366]
      #111866 - 15/08/08 10:00 AM

400-600 grains @ 2000 is about NFB to full nitro give or take.

My first DR build was also on a Spanish gun, however it was a 31/2" magnum origionly proved 25% higher than this one.
I elected to use 450#2 for the low pressure it generates. There is a pretty extensive thread on it if you care to wade back through my posts.
Don't put sleeves in the barrels, this is not the way to do it and will anyway give you nightmares on regulation. Cut it too a monoblock.

If it is to be a fun gun for you. Then I think that I would be tempted to make it 450 31/4" but only regulate for NFB loads 365-400 @ 2000-2100.
My reasoning would be that it is much more plesent to shoot for regulation, will kill anything in Canada or indeed Africa ( except the big three) with authority. You can shoot cast lead which will encourage its use more. You can build it lighter.
The bottom line is that it aint all about chamber pressure. Whatever power a gun generates at the muzzle a similar ammount of energy must be absorbed by the stock and action on fireing.

I would look at the diamiter of the firing pins, their fit in the disks and their protrusion and I would look at the disks themselves as the wrench holes look quite large and close to the primer (but this may just be photo angle)A pierced primer is one of the major things to be concerned about in a DR. Look at a BA firing pin size tip and protrusion.

Before you start. Is the gun tight. ie on face and with no rock in the action if you take off the forend and attempt to twist the barrels in the action. If it is loose now it will not get better, so don't begin.
Building a DR is not like building a BA. The most important single thing is that you must be able to solder properly. If you cannot now, you must practice like hell you will do a lot of it and the integrity of the rifle will depend on it.

Hope this helps.

Regards

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Ron_Vella
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Lanber Double Rifle Build [Re: Bramble]
      #111867 - 15/08/08 10:15 AM

Hansol,
Where are you located in Canada? I'm in Oshawa, Ontario. Have built four, most recently in .450 #2 NE, a calibre which I highly recommend. Have just started another in .303 British. I can supply you my phone # if you want to talk.
Ron.

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hansol
.224 member


Reged: 15/08/08
Posts: 33
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Re: Lanber Double Rifle Build [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #111870 - 15/08/08 10:29 AM

Hey everyone,

Thanks for all the replies so far. The quality of advice here is great.

I will stay away from sleeves, as suggested. I had originally thought that going the "sleeved" route would prove to be the most simple, but if regulating them is going to be a bugger then a guy may as well go through the trouble of the monoblock route.

Bramble is there a link to the thread regarding your build of the 450 NE? I would love to browse through it. And my reference to velocities/pressures was only to try and illustrate that I am by no means a power/speed freak. I am content with modest bullets at modest velocities, and as such am not going to be asking "much" of this spanish SxS.

Newbie question, but what is "NFB"?

Ron, I am out in BC, working as a hunting guide of all things. PM sent.

As for the condition of the shotgun, it is basically new. The fit and finish is extremely tight, as I have a bugger of a time fitting everything together on reassembly. It is a very snug fit.

Anyways, keep the suggestions coming. Any ideas on how much a set of barrels in 450#2 barrels runs approximately?

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Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Lanber Double Rifle Build [Re: hansol]
      #111873 - 15/08/08 10:44 AM

Phone Lilja for the barrel cost. If you PM me I will give you my proper name and you can use the profile I had set up without paying again for it.

Thread as requested.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....=true#Post69065

Regards

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Paul
.400 member


Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: Lanber Double Rifle Build [Re: Bramble]
      #111878 - 15/08/08 12:25 PM

You had head-scratching for a mo there, Bramble, with your reference to sleeving. Isn't the traditional English concept of sleeving the origin of the monoblock idea?

- Paul

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peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Lanber Double Rifle Build [Re: Paul]
      #111899 - 15/08/08 07:22 PM

poul two different terms:

1: sleving a shotgun aka new barrels is made by making a monoblock of the org. barrels and soldering new tubes into that.

or

2: sleving a set of rifle barrels into a set of org. shotgun barrels is done at full lenght and usually leaves the rifle heavy and cumbersome.

hope that can explain it

peter

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450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: Lanber Double Rifle Build [Re: peter]
      #111904 - 15/08/08 11:09 PM

Isnt lining also a method of putting a full lenght barrel inside an old one? If so i ment that lining was to stay away from not sleaving if this is done with a monoblock.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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Ron_Vella
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Lanber Double Rifle Build [Re: 450_366]
      #111934 - 16/08/08 09:37 AM

I think that there is some confusion over terminology here. Sleeving refers to cutting off the original shotgun barrels, just forward of the flats, and screwing, or soldering, or both, the rifle barrels into the monoblock thus created. The barrels can thus be lathe-turned to be as heavy or as light as desired. In the insert process, the shotgun barrels are bored out, full length, and the rifle barrels are turned to a diameter that will allow them to fit inside the shotgun barrels. This, of necessity, results in a very heavy, weight-forward, and awkward rifle.

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Ron_Vella
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Lanber Double Rifle Build [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #111935 - 16/08/08 09:50 AM

Hansol,
If you look on page two of this site, at my thread entitled "Oak and leather case and rifle modifications" you will see what CAN be done with a good Spanish shotgun as a host gun. The photos aren't the greatest but I think that you'll get the idea. I did have a post here with a lot of photos of the 450 #2 which I built but I guess it's run past the 5-page limit now, as I can't find it any longer.

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Paul
.400 member


Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: Lanber Double Rifle Build [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #111936 - 16/08/08 10:09 AM

Thanks Guys,
I was having a joke but you're right; sleeving can mean a full-length lining inside a barrel. I think Fieldman and possibly BSA used to put a fine sleeve into some .22 rimfire barrels to get greater accuracy.
- Paul

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hansol
.224 member


Reged: 15/08/08
Posts: 33
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Re: Lanber Double Rifle Build [Re: Paul]
      #111939 - 16/08/08 10:42 AM

Well guys, after chatting a bit with Bramble and ronvella, here is the new plan:

In the next little while I'm going to try and track down some .458 barrels, and a reamer for a 450 3 1/4". This rifle certainly isn't going to be the epitomy of a "safari" rifle, but my goals are to eventually have this thing firing loads carrying around 4000ft/lbs of energy. Certainly I could go higher, but I am unable to afford a trip to Africa these days, and on top of that, recoil just annoys me.

So I will keep everyone updated as I scrounge the necessary parts, and as things start coming together and work starts to get finished, I will be posting pics as well. Thanks for all the help so far, and keep the advice coming. Cheers -Cameron

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oupa
.300 member


Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Maryland,USA
Re: Lanber Double Rifle Build [Re: hansol]
      #112002 - 17/08/08 12:09 PM

NFB = "Nitro for black" and refers to the (reduced) loading of smokeless powder (hence "nitro") to aproximate the orginal black powder loading of some early cartridges.

As for the confusion over "sleeving" it seems you've sorted out the intent of the orginal replies. As you get deeper into this double gun stuff you'll soon learn there are many unique terms associated with it, often the terms are not what they seem. Double-gun jargon like any language dictates everyone use the same terms to avoid confusion. That said we all have our colloquialisms no matter what the language. What's really important is that you know what is meant regardless of what is said! Don't fret over the terminology but make sure you know what you're being told and how reliable that advise is. As for reliable advise in this arena and experience in actually doing it, you've come to the right place welcome aboard.

BTW - check the "suppliers" thread at the top of this section. 4D has 450NE reamers for rental.

Edited by oupa (17/08/08 12:11 PM)

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buckbrush
.300 member


Reged: 23/08/07
Posts: 120
Loc: Alberta
Re: Lanber Double Rifle Build [Re: oupa]
      #112775 - 28/08/08 08:39 AM

"Bits of Piece's" in the lower mainland stocks Heym and Montana barrels.

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