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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Buff/Croc/Hippo hunt-What rifle?
      #111411 - 09/08/08 09:58 PM

In my dreams in the next 2-3 years I want a Buff/croc hunt.Love to tag a hippo as well.

As far as weaponry needed mutiple concerns arise.You wanna a real "club" like a Big Double to do the Buff and maybe the hippo, but you need a "rapier" aka precise surgical rifle(preferably with optics) for the croc.

Whatcha gonna hunt 'em all with?

Most of my big bores(375,416,458) field accuracy with proper support is maybe closer to 2 inchand somewhat less on a great day--Don't have a MOA big Bore in the group.I would want a tackdriver to punch the croc, not much room to screw up there.

If you use a 416 you gotta get closer to the croc--
Sure don't wanna screw up and let the croc get into the water--the options get ugly then--

Maybe carry the big Double + a Sauer 202 switch barrel 375 H&H/300. You could swap for the 300 barrel in the field for accuracy work on a croc--HMMM!!!

Maybe find that 416 that shoots one MOA??

Or just a 450/400 Double with a qd scope and get closer or what???

Suggestions for the one gun dual "club" and "rapier" dilemma anyone??

What would other members suggest??

Is there one rifle to take here to get the Buff AND croc job done???

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (09/08/08 09:59 PM)

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bigmaxx
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Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: Buff/Croc/Hippo hunt-What rifle? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #111413 - 09/08/08 10:37 PM

Hoppdoc, I dont have a double rifle yet. My choices were simple, buy a nice double rifle, OR go to Africa. Not Both. So I am using the M77 Magnum in .458 lott for my buffalo hunting. I was going to take a .30-06 or .300 magnum for the rest of my shooting. The guys on NITROEXPRESS FORUMS quickly schooled me on the dangers of carrying a rifle that wont stop a charge from one of dangerous game species if hunting an area where they are present. For that reason I am choosing to take my Ruger Hawkeye African. I consider the .375 ruger equal to the H&H. Not necessarily better or worse. I would consider using the .375 as your "light" rifle. My choice of the .375 ruger was due to availability of nice safari rifles in KY! Not alot of choices. I am quite happy with it due to the fact I hunt almost exclusively with M77s. Thats neither here nor there though. I have a Zeis Conquest 2.5-8X32 on it for plains game, and carry a spare zeroed Leupold VXIII 1.5-5X20 with heavy duplex crosshairs in the event I choose, or HAVE to use it on dangerous game due to failure of the other rifle. Thats pretty unlikely. But after alot of reloading and practice I think I can hit whatever I need to with the .375 ruger. I am loading the .300 grain A-Frames for plainsgame hunting. I would think it would be a great choice for shooting crocodile, in the H&H or ruger. I used a lot of practice techniques I got from you guys. Maybe the most useful being some upper body strench train at the local gym. Worked wonders. I think you suggrested that! Now I find it comfortable to shoot it twenty or thirty times per session. The .458 lott I try to limit to ten to fifteen. Have done more but I dont want to risk a flinch. Hope that helps you. Might just me a bunch of rambling. But I really like the .375 now. I may add a rifle in H&H someday.

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One day at a time...

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pinotguy
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Reged: 03/02/07
Posts: 57
Loc: CO
Re: Buff/Croc/Hippo hunt-What rifle? [Re: bigmaxx]
      #111420 - 10/08/08 01:26 AM

Do you want to hunt the hippo out of the water or not? If you would like to try and take one on dry land, I would consider a .416 something as a minimum. A .416 is fine for Buff as well. It is probably less than ideal for croc, given the typical distances involved. A lighter weight solid may do the trick for croc, if you can develop a load that shoots close to MOA. (Your "rapier" analogy is spot-on as it relates to croc.)

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Buff/Croc/Hippo hunt-What rifle? [Re: pinotguy]
      #111422 - 10/08/08 02:16 AM

Agree with the above--as to hippo--you want to shoot him on land or in the water??

If you only wanted to bring one gun I would take a .375--Ruger or H&H...both good and will do a great job --

I did the hunt you described a short time ago..used my scoped custom .300 Ultra-mag for Croc and Hippo shooting 200 gr A-Frames...One shot each...no problems what so ever--the hippo was in about 20 ft of water the croc in about 1.5 feet...the hippo dropped to the shot and popped back up a few hours later...the croc, with the brain shot, actually pushed himself further on shore from reflexes after the shot...

For a two gun combo and the animals you described...I would not hesitate again to go back with the same I took...416 Remington Caliber and 300 Ultra-mag...The .416 is more than adequate for everything up to and including elephant..which also dropped with one .416 Barnes solid to the brain..plus most shots are under 100 yards..

Having said that and depending on WHERE I was hunting...If I went back to Chewore North, I would leave my 300 at home..take a .375 for my light gun and maybe take my .470 double...or one of the .416's for a second gun...the reason for his is that almost every day we were out hiking, we would run into elephant in the bush...the .300 seems aweful small when you are 20 yards from a 5 ton animal...With the heavy brush, which in turns give you generally close shots...the .375 would be perfect..and still have enough energy to get you out of trouble should the need arise..We ran into lion and buffalo as well while hiking probably 5 or 6 times...The area had a lot of dangerous game..and IMHO, no place for anything less than a .375. One morning while hiking into a hyena blind--we were charged to within 8 yards by a tuskless cow who had a calf with her..in total darkness..I was carrying my 300 --that is when I decided that when I go back --.375 will be the minimum I go with..

On the croc and hippo both, the shots were under 100 yards--if you practice at all, this is a very do-able shot...with most calibers and especially with a .375..

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
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Re: Buff/Croc/Hippo hunt-What rifle? [Re: Ripp]
      #111567 - 11/08/08 12:38 PM

I would like the capability to punch a croc at 100yds with a gun shooting close to one MOA.

My 375 would run over a inch, the 416 Rem worse but sub 2 inches.

My 458Wm is nowhere close to One MOA--

Need to see what my 416 Rigby with a custom McGowen barrel will do and with what load.The Swift Aframe is a hammer but not extremely MOA accurate.

Maybe a Sauer 202 in 375 may be accurate enough? I know that the 300 barrel variation should have MOA capability.I think someone here does hunt this combination.

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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Nakihunter
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Reged: 13/10/07
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Loc: New Zealand
Re: Buff/Croc/Hippo hunt-What rifle? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #111579 - 11/08/08 03:39 PM

I would keep the shooting range at 100 meters max & take any of the 2-inch grouping rifles and feel confident. The key is consistent & reliable accuracy with a cold barrel or a dirty barrel. If you can get that first shot into the middle of the 2-inch group you should have any critter in the bag.

No I do not have experience with big bores rifles & hunting dangerous game. However, I would feel confident with my Simson 9.3X62 & the various loads that group about 1.5 inches.

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Always shoot through the target & not just at it.

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Ripp
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Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Buff/Croc/Hippo hunt-What rifle? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #111593 - 11/08/08 11:40 PM

Hoppdoc--are you reloading your bigger guns?? The reason I am asking is that my .416 Remington caliber rifle I took on the last hunt had 3 holes touching --handloads..shooting 400 gr A-frames...

But your statement on the .375 makes sense to me as well....375 is more than adequate for anything over there provided proper shot placement and bullets selection is used...

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Re: Buff/Croc/Hippo hunt-What rifle? [Re: Ripp]
      #111642 - 12/08/08 08:39 PM

I reload other calibers but not the 416 Rigby presently. No dies presently and no time between 12hr days and honeydo's to do it properly.

I need to play with the 416 with factory loads first.I think Norma makes one with the Swift bullet. I love A frames!!

The groups described are those in the field, not off a bench.

Any load developed would be compared to factory ammo and that price is getting way high.

I might use handloads on a Safari in a DG rifle but would be concerned.Don't want a beast bearing down on me, pulling the trigger, and hearing the PSSFT--before the animal tore into me.Would have no problems doing handloads and punching a croc.If the round fails you cycle in another one!!

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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bigmaxx
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Reged: 13/06/07
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Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: Buff/Croc/Hippo hunt-What rifle? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #111645 - 12/08/08 10:04 PM

I felt the same way until I talked to Ripp about it. He put it this way," would you rather have ammo made by a machine with some guy watching it with a hangover or pissed at his wife, or load it your self as if your life depended on it, because it WILL" !! After chewing on that one for a while I started working on the handloads and perfecting my loading process. I turn off the TV, put the dog out, kill the cell phone and any other distractions, and make sure I'm mentally focused and don't have alot of crap I'm thinking about. I am taking my own .458 lott softpoints with the Swift A-Frame 500 grain. That bullet isnt available in my caliber without having it custom loaded.I am loading all my .375 ruger ammo too. I feel confident shooting my reloads. I will let you know how they performed when I get back from Zimbabwe next month.

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One day at a time...

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: Buff/Croc/Hippo hunt-What rifle? [Re: bigmaxx]
      #111647 - 12/08/08 10:59 PM

As to handloads---I have used ONLY handloads for probably the last 15 to 20 years...especially for ALL the hunts I have gone on in far away places...I really do and would rather trust myself any day of the week than someone punching a clock...

I have had numerous factory loads in my lifetime that have not worked..I have even had a box of factory that had the bullet loaded upside down in the case..yes, upside down.. ,knock on wood, but as of now, have not had a handload fail me when I needed it most...however I pay very close attention to all I do when I am loading for an upcoming hunt.

Hoppdoc, as to factory loads for a .416 Remington caliber rifle..Remington actually loads their "safari" series with 400 Gr A-Frames as well that shoot really well in both of my .416 rifles..of which one is a Remington Custom shop gun...the other is a custom built on a mauser action and Shneider barrel...anyway..they both shoot well, but honestly, and it kills me to say this because I have 4x's the money in the custom gun, but the Remington custom shop rilfe shoots better no matter what load I come up with, than the expensive custom rifle...sad but true commentary...


I know Norma is loading for the .416 as well as several others out there--if you choose factory ammo I am sure you can find one or another that will shoot good in yours as well..


Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (14/08/08 02:24 AM)

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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
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Re: Buff/Croc/Hippo hunt-What rifle? [Re: Ripp]
      #111669 - 13/08/08 03:49 AM

big lizrds have small brains the size of of a good walnut so big does not matter why not a 308 a bullet in the brain will end all.yes you can use an RPG but why for surgical placement anyone of the 308's will do.but a hippo on land a nice double is what will make that dream a memory for life.and for buffalo you know what you are dreaming is a close encounter with a clasic double gripped between your seaty hands as your heart thumps out of your chest,tell me if i am wrong because i have the same dream and one day if god will grace me the chance thats what i want.its your dream what ever you decide will make you smile till thelast timeyou close your eyes.just do it.

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THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Re: Buff/Croc/Hippo hunt-What rifle? [Re: Ripp]
      #111673 - 13/08/08 04:44 AM

Disgusting when the factory stuff out shoots handloads.
It happens--

What is worse is when your handloads can't cycle the bolt cause you didn't crimp enough and the bullet moved forward due to recoil.Other variables can enter with handloads as well.

Still it is a h*ll of a lot cheaper.Just gotta get real serious about the effort and precision involved.

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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Sarg
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Re: Buff/Croc/Hippo hunt-What rifle? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #111692 - 13/08/08 07:46 AM

I think most poeple don,t try hard enough with their 458s , as mine have been very accurate !
The old Ruger I have now will easy put 3 shots in the same hole ( Ok large hole )at a 100 yards !
I,ve shot a fair few Crocs , I don,t think you need to be more than 100 yards away - 75 yds will be a long way , yes brain is walnut size ,but any where near it will stop him till you get there ( shock inside skull,it,s all bone ) & you have a margain with 45 Cal , also you can break both shoulders which kills and stops most times & skull is undamaged ( make sure he is well up bank faceing toward land ) the 458 Win will do it all , just shoot your rifle a bit more !

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bigmaxx
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Re: Buff/Croc/Hippo hunt-What rifle? [Re: Sarg]
      #111695 - 13/08/08 08:40 AM

I agree, I wouldnt hesitate a shot at 100 yards with my .458 that I would take with my .375 ruger. From a decent rest that is. They both shoot very well at 100 yards, but the .375 starts to shine beyond that. The trajectory of the .375 ruger stacks up favorably againt the .338 on reasonable long range shots.

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One day at a time...

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bigmaxx
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Reged: 13/06/07
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Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: Buff/Croc/Hippo hunt-What rifle? [Re: bigmaxx]
      #112094 - 19/08/08 01:27 AM

Hey Hoppdoc. I just found out this morning that I am hunting the Sapi area, and hippo has been added to my safari. I am taking the .458 lott and a .375 ruger. I suppose the .458 will be the choice for the hippo in case a stopping shot is needed. I want to get the hippo on land. Can't wait, leaving the 28th!

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One day at a time...

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hoppdoc
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Re: Buff/Croc/Hippo hunt-What rifle? [Re: bigmaxx]
      #112113 - 19/08/08 10:02 PM

Sounds Great!! Good Hunting!!

Take lots of pictures!!

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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