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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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chuck375
.333 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick
      #109633 - 13/07/08 04:38 AM

Hi all, I'm about 3 months from decision time, and I just visited my gunsmith. I have a CZ Safari Classic in 375 H&H. He really liked the gun, is going to put a more subdued darker oil African style finish on the stock and recut the checkering. The rifle is already dual cross-bolted by CZ, glassbedded and has an extra recoil lug installed on the barrel by AHR amongst other things. He thought the stock was so nice and there would be a lot of work and cost in replacing the sights, barrel band etc, money that could be put towards an African hunt. My CZ Safari Classic in 375 H&H weighs 11 lbs with scope 10.25 lbs without.





He recommended 2 possible options (1 and 3) but I had spoken about option 2 earlier and he has the reamer.

1. Leave it as a 375 H&H (which I probably won't do lol), even though he showed me a very nice elephant and cape buffalo one of his customers had shot with a 375 H&H.

2. Rechamber to 375 Weatherby Magnum (which is moving up on my radar, I would really like to see what those 350g Woodleigh Protected Points will do at 2550 fps).

3. Have Clearwater reboring, rebore my rifle to 470 Capstick (which would mean I would shorten the barrel to 22"). He highly recommended LaBounty reboring (now clearwater) saying they were a good option if the current barrel shoots well which it does.

All of these options involve less work (and dollars) for my gunsmith, but I really appreciate him giving me honest and helpful advice.

Anyway I'm leaning towards the 375 Weatherby opton, due to cost, less recoil than the 475 Capstick (since the Capstick would be lighter than my 375 Weatherby due to losing 3" of barrel), and probably more useful for my North American hunting (elk, deer, and hopefully a big Alaskan Brown) as well as being enough gun for cape buffalo.

Regards,
Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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shinz
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Reged: 11/05/08
Posts: 135
Loc: New Zealand
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick [Re: chuck375]
      #109661 - 13/07/08 10:08 AM

Go for option 2, I like the look of the 375 Wby as a round, & like many others would like to hear what it does with the 350 gr bullets. If you go with option 3 you not only loose the 3" of barrel but the weight of metal you take out in the reboring, all weight from the front of the rifle where you'll need it for the 470. If it comes down to it I think the 23" is a better length for a 375 as well, but you would loose a little velocity on a 375 Wby, not a heap, maybe only 40-50 fps. I did this when I had a ZKK602 rebored from 375H&H & chambered to 416 Rigby, it was still very shootable like this, & velocity was not an issue. In a thumper like a 470 Capstick, I think the lose of forward weight could be.
Steve

Edited by shinz (13/07/08 08:52 PM)

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick [Re: shinz]
      #109663 - 13/07/08 10:21 AM

Thanks for the advice Steve, I'm leaning towards the 375 Weatherby, it's the least cost/modification. I still have 100 350g Woodleighs (50 PPs and 50 FMJs) left. It seems like a great North American cartridge as well as half a step up for African dangerous game with the 350g Woodleighs.

Thanks again,
Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick [Re: chuck375]
      #109665 - 13/07/08 12:46 PM

My vote is as follows:



Let me be clear:

.375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland,

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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WyoJoe
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Reged: 18/02/04
Posts: 234
Loc: Cheyenne, WY USA
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick [Re: 9.3x57]
      #109666 - 13/07/08 01:26 PM

Quote:

My vote is as follows:



Let me be clear:

.375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland, .375 Holland & Holland,




Hard to argue with that!!

--------------------
There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?"

Martin Luther King, Jr.

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chuck375
.333 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick [Re: WyoJoe]
      #109669 - 13/07/08 01:44 PM

Hard to argue indeed and the cheapest option by far ... My son Eric tells me the same. I hate it when he's right ...



Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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chuck375
.333 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick [Re: chuck375]
      #109694 - 14/07/08 07:03 AM

Thanks all, the overwhelming opinions on several boards have all been to leave it as is, so staying 375 H&H it is. I'll refine my loads and see if I can get 2400 fps below max pressure with the 350g Woodleighs. I think I can. 2800 fps with the 250g Swift A-Frame (my current deer/elk load) is just fine. I am going to have my gunsmith go over the checkering (the CZ cut checkering looks almost pressed on), add a thicker recoil pad (I have long arms 14.5" LOP) to make the stock fit a bit better and refinish it in a darker more subdued oil finish like this...




I'll revisit this thread when and if I ever shoot the barrel out, I figure that will take a couple of thousand rounds at least .

Thanks all,

Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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shinz
.300 member


Reged: 11/05/08
Posts: 135
Loc: New Zealand
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick [Re: chuck375]
      #109698 - 14/07/08 08:42 AM

Quote:

so staying 375 H&H it is.
Chuck



I guess thats an option too.
Steve

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chuck375
.333 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick [Re: shinz]
      #109734 - 15/07/08 12:23 AM

I reserve the right to change my mind Steve lol, and no woman's perogative cracks! Oh crap here it comes ....

Thanks for all of the advice, really,

Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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shinz
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Reged: 11/05/08
Posts: 135
Loc: New Zealand
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick [Re: chuck375]
      #109962 - 18/07/08 06:21 PM

Totally understand, I have frequently gone around in a complete circle with my planning of what I'm going to do with what action in what calibre, normally end up coming back to the beginning, guess I should just learn to go with my first instincts, but hey, isn't plotting & planning half the fun?
Steve.

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jvw
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Reged: 15/05/08
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Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick [Re: shinz]
      #109965 - 18/07/08 10:15 PM

It looks like you came to your senses in time, so I will try to keep this as short as possible.

The .375 H&H is all you need - period. With a good 300-grain solid at 2 500 ft/sec MV it will shoot straight through the skull of the biggest bull elephant and whistle off into the distance. I know this for a fact, I witnessed it first-hand. With the same load, shoot the biggest bull buffalo in the chest and you will recover the solid in his arse. I know, I have done it.

You want to shoot softs? Load a 300-grain Swift A-Frame for the heavier stuff or Woodleigh Weldcore for the softer stuff to the same MV and just shoot them. They will fall down as if struck by lightning if you do your thing.

The .375 Weatherby makes more noise and delivers more recoil, and does so with significantly higher pressure as well. It has a bit of a nasty reputation over here for failure to extract due to higher pressure, so it is pretty low on my personal list so far as DG rounds go.

The .470 Capstick I have no experience with but it is by all accounts a very effective round. But rebarrel/rebore a perfectly good .375 H&H for one ????!!!! Over my cold, dead body!

Stick with the .375 H&H. In three months's time you will be glad you did.

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick [Re: jvw]
      #109967 - 18/07/08 10:48 PM

Thanks jvw,

Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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mikeh416Rigby
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Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 6051
Loc: The beautiful Oley Valley, PA....
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick [Re: chuck375]
      #110485 - 27/07/08 12:28 AM

Good decision on staying with the .375 H&H. You won't regret it.

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luv2safari
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Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1408
Loc: United States
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
      #111045 - 04/08/08 01:14 PM

I love my old FN 98 action Sako in 375 Wby. It is a viable long range rifle and can be a bit of a hammer with 350's if needed. It shoots factory 375 H&H well and is highly accurate.

I get 100-150 fps velocity increases over my 375s, and I've never had any extraction problems.

Is it worth doing? Yes if you have other 375s...No if it is your only 375. I use the 375 Wby for elk hunting, and some shots get out there a bit. My 375 Wby Sako/FN loves Nosler AccuBond 260 gr bullets, pushed a bit.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick [Re: luv2safari]
      #111063 - 04/08/08 08:42 PM

Hi luv2safari, what speed can you push the 350g Woodleighs at in your 375 Wby? I was thinking 2550 fps with a 350g Woodleigh PP (5000 flbs, .400 BC, .356 SD) would be pretty effective on cape buffalo and alaskan brown bear as well as being hell on elk/mule deer and black bears. Why wouldn't you rechamber your only 375? I only plan to own one big bore rifle and to hunt everything with it. So far I've only heard of one extraction problem with the 375 Wby and lots of people love it. Recoil is a half step up, but my 375 H&H barely recoils at all.



Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
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Loc: England
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick [Re: chuck375]
      #111070 - 04/08/08 11:55 PM

Not sure what the recommended velocity range is for those 350gr Woodleighs, but IMHO you may want to think carefully about pushing the envelope too much when after something tough like buff. I personally see no advantage in pushing them past 2400fps which would be plenty fast enough out to well past the distance at which I'd consider shooting at a buff. Just a thought...

Edit - having just read that back to myself, I realise that buff is not the only game in town being considered...

Edited by JabaliHunter (04/08/08 11:58 PM)

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Rolf
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Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #111093 - 05/08/08 04:32 AM

Hello Chuck,

following are some of my thoughts to your theme:

I have a shortened Sako in .375 H&H (22" barrel) and bought additionally a CZ550 customized to .375 Weatherby with a 24" barrel (63cm).

The Sako is nice to handle, shoots good and is a no-nonsense gun, and a little boring...

The 375 Weatherby has (at least for me) always power to spare and I can use 375H&H ammunition also if I get seperated from the expensive .375 Weatherby ammunition.
A friend of mine has also a CZ550 in .375 Weatherby (customized by the same gunsmith in Munich) and shoots foxes and roe deer with it. He reports no tight situations up to now, even some of those collected roe deer were weighing up to 30lbs...

Reloading for the .375 Weatherby was interesting:
I can obtain safely 837,5 m/s with the 300grs Hornady soft point RN with Rottweil R904 (approx. Reloader 19), and have a reduced loading of 800 m/s with the 300grs Sierra Gameking Soft Point.
If you are interested, I send you the data and we can interpolate/calculate with a ballistic program the expected velocity with the 350grs loads.

If I happen to visit Namibia in 2010 for plains game, I want to try the Weatherby, not the H&H...

best regards
Rolf

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick [Re: Rolf]
      #111213 - 06/08/08 02:37 PM

Thanks Rolf, definitely send me the data. I have some reloading data (I'll have to find which manual has it) for the 375 Weatherby shooting 350g Barnes bullets. I send that to you as well.


Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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Rolf
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 402
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Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick [Re: chuck375]
      #112649 - 27/08/08 03:19 AM

Gentlemen,

I found reloading data from A-Square and Norma, if anybody is interested, please send me a mail...

Rolf

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