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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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tarawa
.333 member


Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Range Report...sort of!
      #109126 - 07/07/08 05:16 AM

Took out all three Baikal/Remington doubles today. Used the laser sight at abot 25 yards and zeroed them in to at least get them on paper.

Gun #1- SxS Remington-dead zero @ 25yards with laser.
Ammo 150gr Winchester Factory Loads
Results @ 50' with some zeroing in with scope -2" groups 2" above bull and 2" left of bull - jubilations!

Gun #2 - O&U Baikal/EAA - zeroe @ 25 yards with laser
Ammo 150gr Winchester Factory Loads
Results @ 50' with some zeroing in with scope -3" groups 2" right of bull.


Gun #3 - O&U Baikal/EAA - zeroe @ 25 yards with laser using no spacer in barrel.
Note: Had to use a crescent wrench and monkey wrench to align barrels in vertical, because laser was about 12" left of bull.
Ammo 150gr Winchester Factory Loads
Results @ 50' with some zeroing in with scope...hitting paper

Now for the bad news. Zeroing these guns in would have been easier, if I would have put the scopes on correctl.....had to use the left to right to adjust elevation and elevation to adjust left to righ. I was consistant eneough to mount all three scopes wrong.

Conclusion. All three guns should group ok when scopes are remounted and rezeroed.

--------------------
Life is for Service

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Range Report...sort of! [Re: tarawa]
      #109127 - 07/07/08 05:33 AM

I'm quite interested in these rifles, but I think I'm a bit confused.

First, what number of shots comprise your groups?

Sounds like you will get them zeroed, but are you saying 2 to 3 inch groups are what the rifles are capable of at 50 FEET or 50 yards? That type of grouping would be what I would expect of 7 shots from a service pistol with service ammo shot from offhand at 50 feet. Even 3 inch groups at 50 yards/meters would be rather poor accuracy for most general hunting.

I would think a 2.5 inch group from a rifle at 50 feet would approach something like 12 to 18 inches at 100 meters, give or take, not even really usable. Are the groups that large due to poor regulation, or are the groups from each barrel poor also?

Maybe I'm reading your post incorrectly, if so I apologize.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: Range Report...sort of! [Re: tarawa]
      #109128 - 07/07/08 05:33 AM

Great than the laser realy did help, it must have saved you a bucket of ammo.
I hope you get the scopes to work

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Range Report...sort of! [Re: tarawa]
      #109130 - 07/07/08 05:47 AM

Tarawa-


I'm skeptical of the possibilities or getting good repeatable data from this laser boreguide experiment.
I'm equally enthusiastic for you in your undertaking and wish you the best success in getting your cool set of doubles regulated and running properly.

You might have noted this elsewhere, so forgive me if you've already answered this elsewhere -- but with three similarly chambered rifles, are you going to set each of them up with significantly different loads, such as high velocity varmint, heavy hardcast flat point penetrator, and traditional RNSN JHP soft skin game loads?

Over at The Drilling Hotline (and elsewhere I'm sure, this is standard, Remington factory loaded ammunition in Remington boxes...) they offer the Remington 55gr 22 accelerator rounds (4200fps!!) in 30-06 cases. Cool stuff for sure, and they're only about $35 USD a box there - typically you can find this ammunition for about $30-$38 a box when it's in stock.

Here's an early promo image from Remington, it shows 30-30 brass (which they also offer).


I'd try this with the stack guns first, and for all it's worth, you could get one of those stack guns shooting whatever 30 caliber bullet you want on the top barrel, and the accelerator on the bottom barrel (or whatever...)

I think there's some neat possibilities for you with this 'magazine' of low-cost, adjustable 30 caliber doubles.


Give it some thought.
Let us know if you go this route.
I'm interested to see if it could work out.
We all know what the possibilities could be!



-Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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tarawa
.333 member


Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: Range Report...sort of! [Re: 9.3x57]
      #109134 - 07/07/08 08:00 AM

Hi they were four shot groups at 50 yards. Two from each barrel.
Gun number 1 (SXS) and gun #2 (O&U) could be used for hunting hog just fine here in Florida. No long range shooting for sure.
I am sure with more shooting and tinkering, these guns would be just fine at longer ranges, but I didn't spend enough time with any one gun. One shouldn't take three guns to the range, and expect to regulate and zero all three prefectly. I originally had my doubts that any would hit paper at 50 yards.
My first experience with the one O&U when I first got it left me wondering if these rifles could even be used. It had an top and bottom spread of over 1 foot at 50 yards, neither of which could be brought to zero using open sights, without sending the other clean off the target.

--------------------
Life is for Service

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Range Report...sort of! [Re: tarawa]
      #109135 - 07/07/08 08:05 AM

Tarawa, got cha.

I commend you for working with those guns. You've got the right "tinkering" spirit {NPI, Tinker }. A fellow that wants to pull one out of the box and be good is probably going to be disappointed, but plugging at it you very well may get those things working just fine. Keep posting the progress. Very interesting stuff.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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tarawa
.333 member


Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: Range Report...sort of! [Re: 450_366]
      #109136 - 07/07/08 08:06 AM

Quote:

Great than the laser realy did help, it must have saved you a bucket of ammo.
I hope you get the scopes to work



The laser just got me shooting both barrels in the same general vacinity, giving me a starting point. It still took tinkering with the scope to bring them on target. I am still far from where I want to be with the O&Us. I was pleasantly surprised that I did not touch the regulation on the SXS. It was just a matter of zeroing in the scope.

--------------------
Life is for Service

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tarawa
.333 member


Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: Range Report...sort of! [Re: tarawa]
      #109139 - 07/07/08 08:24 AM

Tinker,
I am not sure what is in my future with these guns. I know that I will use the SXS for hogs, so one load will be fine. I will remount the scopes correctly and it will be back to the range to do this all again. Next time it will be one gun at a time.

9ThreeXFifty7,
If another fellow board member hadn't revealed the method that these O&Us are supposed to be regulated (using different size bushings), I would have thought that they truly had adjustable regulation. The factory supposedly regulated them with about 138 grain bullets. I removed the regulation spacer and measured both the gap and spacer on both O&U rifles. They had different size spacers in them. The man that regulated the one rifle was apparently suffering a hangover from too much vodka. I had to remove the spacer all together to get the gun hitting at the same elevation and had to use brute force and two wrenches to get them even close to shooting at the same vertical plane. Lets hope that too many rifles tested by that fellow didn't leave the factory in that condition.

--------------------
Life is for Service

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Range Report...sort of! [Re: tarawa]
      #109145 - 07/07/08 10:35 AM

tarawa, I had the same experience and found out the same info the same way...after a lot of back and forth with EAA.

My problem was with a couple combo's that I wanted to center a buckshot pattern at 25 yards with the same sight hold I used for the rifle barrels at 100.

Long story short, I had 4 of the combo's. One was perfect but it was busted up in an accident. Of the others, one was OK but had the grossest stock on planet earth and I sold it. The other two were hopeless, but hopeless because of windage problems not elevation. I do believe a guy could monkey with elevation after a fashion, as you are doing here. But when the rear sight is literally hanging off the starboard side of the gun with every load imagineable, not sure what to do.

I think you are on the trail to getting the things to work.

{PS: Totally off topic, but your handle reminds me... My Dad was a Navy Hospital Corpsman in WW2 and was assigned to work with psychological cases. He told me of one Marine Major who was a very serious case, repeating "My boys, my boys, my boys..." over and over again. He had something to do with planning the Tarawa invasion and completely broke down after it, devastated by the lives lost during that mess. He became suicidal eventually and without warning one day charged down the hall of the ward and dove head first into a cast iron radiator at the end of the hall. The act did not kill him but broke or somehow damaged his neck severely and he was transferred to a medical ward permanently. Very sad. Anyhow, I suspect you may have some involvement with that battle, be a student of it, or have a relative who was involved? If so, here is the story of another casualty...}

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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tarawa
.333 member


Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: Range Report...sort of! [Re: 9.3x57]
      #109186 - 07/07/08 09:19 PM

After thinking about the way the guns performed...or lack of, I believe I came up wit a fix for the left /right adjustment for the bottom barrel. No large wrenchs and barrel twisting will be required. The elevation adjustment of the bottom barrel, though somewhat crude, does work as designed.
If my fix works, which I think it will, I will provide it to others with the O&U baikals. I am starting to think that the Baikal O&Us are a good platform for a decent double and with some good yankee know-how will be a great shooter. I may see if anymore are available at a good price.

--------------------
Life is for Service

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