Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: Winchester 101 XTR Double Rifle?

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing

Pages: 1
Oz
.224 member


Reged: 24/05/08
Posts: 39
Loc: Australia
Winchester 101 XTR Double Rifle?
      #109023 - 05/07/08 01:21 PM

I think most of us have seen the book "Building a double rifle" using a SxS shotgun, I was wondering if you could use the same principles to build one on something like a Winchester 101 O/U?? All I have to do is wait for someone that's blown out a barrel or bulged one unacceptably and I thought I'd give it a try

Anyone have any thoughts, this idea kept me up last night, so did I waste a good night's sleep?
Cheers
Oz

--------------------
Once upon a time, long long ago
there was a contented young woman
happy with the choices made by her husband

But it was only the once,
and it was a long long time ago


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Winchester 101 XTR Double Rifle? [Re: Oz]
      #109024 - 05/07/08 02:01 PM

First thing that comes up for me is it's a single trigger gun.
Personally, I'm not very fond of single trigger double rifles.
A very important component of 'what makes a double rifle' (in my world) -- the distinction of there being two triggers, two sets of lockwork, two strikers, two barrels...
all under one set of sights and hitting together with the same ammunition.

The 101 isn't 'quite that'
I've had the stocks off 101s in the field, done 'quickie' repairs to the 101's trigger.
That's not what I sign up for with a double rifle.

Stack guns are cool.
The 101 is cheap.
Are you thinking of going with this winchester because they are cheap and plentiful?
If that's the case, look for something with two triggers!


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Winchester 101 XTR Double Rifle? [Re: Oz]
      #109025 - 05/07/08 02:52 PM

Oz,
In the 1980's Winchester built double rifles on their 20g 101 frame in a variety of cals up to 9.3x74R.
They have proven to be strong and reliable, but were jig regulated, and most require re-regulating to bring the two barrel groups together.
Re-regulating these "Grand European" rifles is not quite as straight forward as some doubles, but they can be done.
NT gunshith Vic Pedersen has done several and I've done a couple myself.
They can sometimes be bought for three to four thousand bucks or thereabouts, if you can find one, and come factory fitted with very high quality EAW QD pivot scope mounts.
I've shot one in 7x65R for quite some time and have taken a variety of game with it.
Winchester also produced combination guns on their 12g 101 frame.
Shotgun to rifle conversions on the Winchester 101 action have been done for quite a long time by gunsmiths and others, and the 1976 Gun Digest cover shows a 9.3x74R built on a 12g 101 from somewhere in Belgium.
If you can locate a 101 on the cheap, it could certainly be converted to a rifle, but I'm not sure how the cost of building one would compare to the price of buying a Winchester factory 101 double rifle.

My experience with 101 triggers has been happier than what Tinker has found.
I shot a Pigeon Grade 101 Trap and a Super Grade 101 trap gun quite a bit in the 70's and 80's, and never had any trigger problems with either.
My Grand European 7x65R has fired a lot of rounds (for a double rifle) and it has never suffered any trigger problems.
Hope this helps with your plan and please keep us informed as to any developments.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Oz
.224 member


Reged: 24/05/08
Posts: 39
Loc: Australia
Re: Winchester 101 XTR Double Rifle? [Re: 4seventy]
      #109031 - 05/07/08 03:37 PM

Just when you think you've come up with something original you find out that your grandpa did it too
Thanks for the feedback everyone
Cheers
Oz

--------------------
Once upon a time, long long ago
there was a contented young woman
happy with the choices made by her husband

But it was only the once,
and it was a long long time ago


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Winchester 101 XTR Double Rifle? [Re: Oz]
      #109035 - 05/07/08 04:20 PM

Oz,
Wasn't trying to steal any thunder from your idea to build a 101 based double rifle, but just trying to let you know that yes, it can be successfully done.
I hope you find a donor 101 and do build one up.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Winchester 101 XTR Double Rifle? [Re: tinker]
      #109039 - 05/07/08 05:52 PM

Quote:

I've had the stocks off 101s in the field, done 'quickie' repairs to the 101's trigger.






Tinker,
What sort of trigger problems did you have with the 101?
Was it a trigger problem or related to the barrel selector mechanism?
What did you need to do to get things working again?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Paul
.400 member


Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: Winchester 101 XTR Double Rifle? [Re: 4seventy]
      #109043 - 05/07/08 06:59 PM

I bought one in .30/06 s/h for $1000 about 20 years ago. I think the trigger was mechanical and not reliant on recoil to set the second barrel. As 4seventy said, the regulation was often lousy. I couldn't get any factory ammo to bring the barrels closer than 15 inches at 50 yards. It had nice wood, finish, case and mounts, however.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Winchester 101 XTR Double Rifle? [Re: Paul]
      #109076 - 06/07/08 09:12 AM

There was a very nice one at Holts last auction in 9.3 x 74.

I did bid but it went above my imposed reserve. Sold for £ 1800.00 + comission IIRC.

Of course I have no idea how it shot.

Regards


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Winchester 101 XTR Double Rifle? [Re: Bramble]
      #109078 - 06/07/08 09:32 AM

Quote:

Of course I have no idea how it shot




Bramble,
With your skills, I'm sure you would soon be able to get one of these things shooting fine.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Birdhunter50
.375 member


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: Winchester 101 XTR Double Rifle? [Re: Oz]
      #109285 - 09/07/08 04:55 AM

Oz,
Before you get too far along, pick up a copy of the last Double Gun Journal, they have a whole big article on the Winchester 101's. It will be worth your time to look one up and read it. You will find out that during at least part of the time during their long run, (about 30 years), they were built with mono blocked barrels and believe me, that would be a big plus in finding one to do a conversion on. I have not had any experience with the single trigger on them, but I can almost guarantee that if you stay with a mild to moderately loaded cartridge such as the 45-70, 30-30,30-40, or something like that, and you keep the recoil down, even if it has a recoil operated reset on the trigger, you won't have much trouble with it. That is if it is properly fuctioning as a shotgun before you convert it.

I preached the same sermon as Tinker for a long time, about never using a single trigger gun to convert. After having tried it myself, I can only give you my oppinion based on my small experience.

I believe that on a gun to be used for dangerous game, that this is still a good rule, even though they make many single trigger guns that could only be justified as a dangerous game gun.
That being said, if you want a gun to hunt American game or even plains game, I now feel that you can get by with a good modern single triggered gun. I know I will be slow roasted over hot coals for expressing this oppinion, but the truth is, that if the recoil is similar to what the shotgun was putting out, and it will be with these cartridges, then there is no reason not to think it can't be done. If the single trigger is mechanical, and working well in the shotgun, then I see no reason at all to worry about it. I think this idea is a throwback to times past when most single triggers would fail in some way or another, at least part of the time.

I have also heard from some people that the Ruger Red Label shotgun was not good enough or strong enough to do a conversion on. That is quite frankly a load of BULL. I did a 45-70 with a single trigger for a friend in Florida and it has not given him one bit of trouble. No misfires, no saftey problems, Nothing! He managed to put the first two shots from the top and bottom barrels into less than 1 inch at 50 yards, they were practically touching. I don't think you will ever find a factory regulated Winchester that will do that.

Bill Ruger worked with Mr.Dietrich Apel to do a dozen 45-70's on the Red Label actions with the idea of offering them as an option and also as straight double rifles. They even built one .375 Mr. Apel stated that there was no trouble regulating the 45-70's but that he would never do another 375 because they were a bitch to regulate, not because the auction was too weak. By the way, as I got the story, they were all built on the original 20 gauge frames, not 12 gauge.
Bob H.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Birdhunter50
.375 member


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: Winchester 101 XTR Double Rifle? [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #109286 - 09/07/08 05:05 AM

Oz,
P.S.- Another good gun in an over and under to convert would be the Ithacas in a 500 or model 600. They have the kurstin locking system on them that is a double crossbolt. As shotguns they run a little heavy, but converted into a 45-70, or something like that, I think they would be just right. Don't forget the 20 gauge bore rifle either. They do great things when loaded with Lyman hourglass slugs and pushed to 1400 FPS or better! 12 gauges are a natural to convert to 20 gauge rifles because you have more room to get things done correctly, and most of the extra weight is between the hands. Bob H.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Winchester 101 XTR Double Rifle? [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #109291 - 09/07/08 05:58 AM

To add to what Bob H has noted here -

Single trigger DR for nondangerous game will likely work out fine for you. If your trigger goes FUBAR, your only 'need' is to break it open and chamber another round, follow up shot then trail the game through the woods.

If what you're after is big angry tusker boar or warthog, North American bear or big cat, you'd be better off with two triggers.

If you insist on something like the 101 - and using it on bear, cat, or big pigs, make double damn sure you perfectly understand that trigger, the action of your gun, and that you stay in touch with it on a regular basis.
Keep it clean, keep it tuned, know what problems can occur with the action you choose, and how to look for the precursor signs of said trouble when you're 'in there' for regular service.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5310
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Winchester 101 XTR Double Rifle? [Re: tinker]
      #109307 - 09/07/08 12:14 PM

Quote:

I have also heard from some people that the Ruger Red Label shotgun was not good enough or strong enough to do a conversion on. That is quite frankly a load of BULL. I did a 45-70 with a single trigger for a friend in Florida and it has not given him one bit of trouble. No misfires, no saftey problems, Nothing! He managed to put the first two shots form the top and bottom barrels into less than 1 inch at 50 yards, they were practically touching. I don't think you will ever find a factory regulated Winchester that will do that.




I happen to know a good friend, another moderator on this forum, who will surely agree with that statement! What say ye, 4seventy?

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Winchester 101 XTR Double Rifle? [Re: CptCurl]
      #109428 - 10/07/08 07:19 PM

Curl and Bob,
Yes, for sure the Red Label can be converted into a sound double rifle.
Quite a few guys did this conversion in the states including, Wisner, Jaeger, Searcy, Yale etc.
In Australia, Ron Webb, Jack Miller and Peter Van Meurs have been involved with this conversion.
Most were built on the 20 gauge frame, some on the early blued action and a couple on the stainless version.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1



Extra information
0 registered and 11 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  CptCurl 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 3750

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved