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tarawa
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Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Pedersoli regulation question.
      #108861 - 03/07/08 10:34 PM

I am getting the itch to sell some of my militaria and get another double rifle. It will be a cheaper one, either an old BP express or a Pedersoli, Chapuis, Merkel or something like that. I would love to find a used one. Hammer or hammerless.
I have been doing all the searches on the forums here and I still haven't seen any good info on the Pedersoli Kodiak's regulation. When you purchase one of these, is it hit or miss with the regulation. I dont want to uses a rear sight for each barrel.
I like the look of the Kodiak and 45-70 is a round that I can uses.

Anyone need an MG42 (semi)??

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Michael
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Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: tarawa]
      #108862 - 03/07/08 10:58 PM

Hi Tarawa,

I have a Pedersoli 8x57JRS and initially the groups were a little low and to the right but they always grouped together. In fact the shots were only a couple of inches side by side at 50 yards with some grouping a little closer with different loads.

After changing the front bead (lower) and knocking the rear sight with a punch it is hitting pretty much where I want it at this range.

As with all doubles you need to find the load that gives you better consistency but once this is done the font bead and rear sight can be adjusted to have it where you want it. If I learn how to post I will show a recent kill for the 8 mill.

I love the pointability of the Pedersoli Kodiak and the price is very good too (well mine was anyway).


Michael.


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tarawa
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Reged: 21/10/07
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Loc: South Florida
Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: Michael]
      #108867 - 04/07/08 12:13 AM

I would love to find a used one. I keep checking the online auctions, but I onle see the muzzle loaders. I can't wait to see your pictures.

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beleg2
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Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: tarawa]
      #108871 - 04/07/08 12:46 AM

I have a 58" Kodiak (muzzleloader) and it groups very well.
I change the back sight for a single express (hand made by me).
I do not know if every rifle groups but according to Pedersoli, they have to put every bullet into 15cm (6") at 50 meters.
This is one of my best groups (LR+LR) :



Martin

PD: I pulled one of the shots. BTW each square is 1,7" by side

Edited by beleg2 (04/07/08 12:47 AM)


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DarylS
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Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: beleg2]
      #108894 - 04/07/08 05:23 AM

With the muzzleloaders, it is definitely hit or miss, mostly miss. This was true up until just a few years baxk, maybe they've changed with their new experiences with ctg. guns? HA! Maybe? but I've heard they'll accept returns from unhappy customers and give you another rifle to test for them, then someone else gets the one you returned, so it can be retested again, and again.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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tarawa
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Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: DarylS]
      #108906 - 04/07/08 08:07 AM

So, from what you men have experienced, the Pedersoli seems as if it can be a very capable rifle...well unless you get one of the BP Kodiaks that they are passing around that don't group very well.
I will keep the Kodiak in my choice of rifles.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: tarawa]
      #108919 - 04/07/08 12:07 PM

I had a Kodiak in .45/70 and shot it right much. It shot quite well and to the sights with the standard Remington 405 grain factory load or its equivalent.

Don't believe the stories that they will shoot anything from the 300 grain to 500 grain .45 bullets. Mine was very fussy about the bullet weight and the load intensity - just like any other double rifle.

The bunk about rechambering one of these to .450 No. 2 is just that: Bunk.

It's a fine rifle, and it's definitely a .45/70.

Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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walksfar
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Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: CptCurl]
      #108923 - 04/07/08 01:30 PM

Quote:

I had a Kodiak in .45/70 and shot it right much. It shot quite well and to the sights with the standard Remington 405 grain factory load or its equivalent.

Don't believe the stories that they will shoot anything from the 300 grain to 500 grain .45 bullets. Mine was very fussy about the bullet weight and the load intensity - just like any other double rifle.

The bunk about rechambering one of these to .450 No. 2 is just that: Bunk.

It's a fine rifle, and it's definitely a .45/70.

Curl




Just about the only bunk being spread is yours concerning the conversion to .450no.2.
I've had mine for close to a little over a year now and have taken deer and wild hogs with it without one failure, and it shoots better than some of the
English doubles I've fired and OWNED.
50 yds.-100yds. regulates with 500 grain bullets, and puts ALL of them within 2" at 50 and 4" at 100.
So lets suppose that your talking about lock-up and rigidity, just to give you another leg to stand on.
Well, you've lost on that one too, because after close to 200rds. mine is still as tight as when I got it. I even have the "new" tightness left, where its snug to open. It's not even broken in yet and I very much dought that it will be in my lifetime.
So, why not get other peoples opinions before stating something as fact on this website?-Because the un-knowing person might just be seeking to learn something that is fact, and not just based on BUNK.

--------------------
..Faith in God and the Mauser...

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tinker
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Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: walksfar]
      #108925 - 04/07/08 02:41 PM

wf-

what's your 500gr load - bullet, powder, primer, filler, brass, fps, for the pedersoli?

what other loads does your rifle regulate with?


--Tinker


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4seventy
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Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: walksfar]
      #108945 - 04/07/08 08:24 PM

Quote:

50 yds.-100yds. regulates with 500 grain bullets, and puts ALL of them within 2" at 50 and 4" at 100.





What sort of velocity would those loads be doing?
Have you chronographed them?


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Michael
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Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: 4seventy]
      #108949 - 04/07/08 09:18 PM

Most recent hunt with the 8x57JRS Pedersoli. Shot taken uphill while the Sambar was escaping the hounds. I was approximately 60 meters in the creek below when I spied her picking her way along a game trail. First shot smashed both shoulders with the Woodliegh 198gr bullet just under the skin on the opposite side.





A better picture of the rifle, being held by my mate Chris.





It is not the prettiest rifle out there but a real hunting firearm, and I must admit I actually like the hammers as well.

Will post the pictures of the groups when I get them off my computer in the office.


Michael.


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tarawa
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Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: Michael]
      #108957 - 04/07/08 11:24 PM

Thanks for all the replies! The Pedersoli will be on my list of DRs for sure. I wish that I can actually see one some where. There is a gunshow in town this weekend, but I have seen few DRs in South Florida.

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tinker
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Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: tarawa]
      #108973 - 05/07/08 01:47 AM

Michael-

Thanks for posting the great hunting photo of your friends, the nice Sambar, and your rifle.

It's great to see these images of what was obviously a great time for all of you.
Also great to see one of these nice little 8mm hammer rifles in the field.

We didn't get many, if any at all of the 8mm Pedersoli doublerifles here in the US.
I think they would have sold well here.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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walksfar
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Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: tinker]
      #108995 - 05/07/08 06:17 AM

I'm using 91grs rl-15 behind the 500gr. hornady or woodleigh.
About 10 grs. dacron--sounds like a lot but it's a big case to try to fill.
This keeps the pressure about the same as the normal 480gr. load with 95grs. of rl-15.
I've not chrony'd these yet, and I imagine they are on the slow end, but with this shell, there is so much energy to go around, you won't miss any in actual practice or on game.
I'm afraid to change, because this is what it does well with.
NOW-I must admit, that it is a slight gamble with the pedersolis---I was lucky, and I'm sure there are some lemons out there, but despite what everyone may say to the contrary-it IS worth the gamble.
I did it, and I'm no better at this than anyone else, so obviously it can be done well by anyone.
There is one item I must bring into this, and it is one of bore dia.
The pedersolis have varying bore size-and one must NEVER-EVER use mono-bullets in them.
It is a slight difference, and I have used both solids and softs from woodleigh and hornady, but NEVER use any other mono-anything. Your bore might be too tight.
Actually this goes for all doubles, BUT the pedersolis especially, because they must have a worn out rifling button at the factory. They are nice bores, but the two can vary in size slightly.
This has not effected my accuracy, but to be safe, just shoot woodleighs and hornadys.
Also, when I recieved my gun new, there was a fair amount I had to do to make it respectable. The stock was refinished in english red, and all of the metal was gone over with a fine tooth comb and the checkering was recut to a flat-cut english style, as the factory cut was too sharp for me.
Seriously, there is a lot of work ahead of you when getting a new one, and it's not something to be taken lightly. But when done, and they regulate well, they are a peach.
But, as for mine, I would take it for a big bull elephant without the slightest degree of un-certainty.
Forgot to add, this is with fed.215 primers and bertram brass.
I think I must add also, that I never exceeded the conversion ratio from cordite to rl-15, and I see no need in doing so with the pedersoli. Instead, try different bullets, and like the 500's in mine, if they start settling in good on target, fine tune, and leave alone.
the 480's were erratic in mine and never wanted to settle in on target. I switched to the 500's and reduced charge and they blew my mind when grouping.
But, not every pedersoli is the same. Some will like 480's I'm sure.
I thought I must add that, for anyone turning there nose up at a pedersoli, that the most fantastic shot I've made with it so far was a 100yd. running shot offhand on a whitetail, taking him through the shoulders while he was in full throttle. I personally hate running shots, but I think this says something for the gun and it's performance.

--------------------
..Faith in God and the Mauser...

Member-DRSS

Edited by walksfar (05/07/08 06:51 AM)


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400NitroExpress
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Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: walksfar]
      #109000 - 05/07/08 08:27 AM

Quote:

I've had mine for close to a little over a year now and have taken deer and wild hogs with it without one failure, and it shoots better than some of the
English doubles I've fired and OWNED.




Your point is...?

Quote:

So lets suppose that your talking about lock-up and rigidity, just to give you another leg to stand on.
Well, you've lost on that one too, because after close to 200rds. mine is still as tight as when I got it.




Establishes nothing of the sort. Well made double rifles chambered for cartridges that they're intended for will stay on face for thousands of rounds, not hundreds.

Quote:

So, why not get other peoples opinions before stating something as fact on this website?-Because the un-knowing person might just be seeking to learn something that is fact, and not just based on BUNK.




Actually, he's not so far off. When these were $1800 rifles, that conversion was a push. Now that they're so overpriced, it's a non-starter. You're far from the only one that's tried it. It's been done, but not always successfully, and I know of no one that has successfully re-regulated one. And, of course, you end up with an out of proof gun. Ok, so it shoots well. Luck doesn't mean that it isn't a gamble, nor does it establish that the conversion was successful or appropriate, or even safe.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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Michael
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Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: tinker]
      #109010 - 05/07/08 10:35 AM

Quote:

Michael-

Thanks for posting the great hunting photo of your friends, the nice Sambar, and your rifle.

It's great to see these images of what was obviously a great time for all of you.
Also great to see one of these nice little 8mm hammer rifles in the field.

We didn't get many, if any at all of the 8mm Pedersoli doublerifles here in the US.
I think they would have sold well here.



--Tinker




Thanks for the reply Tinker,

I spoke to the importer of the Pedersoli's when I first bought mine and he informed me that the sum total of 8mm's imported into Australia is two. I believe that this was part of the reason why I picked it up so cheaply as the 8mm really doesn't have much exposure down here.

I believe that the calibre is only now getting some fans, mostly guys who enjoy shooting the ex-military stuff. I must admit that the performance on game with a lack of recoil or fuss has made me a convert after my initial hesitation. If it wasn't for my desperation to get into a double this would not have been my first choice of calibre.

The Pedersoli's are what they are. If you want a budget double with hammers, balance and in some useful calibres then they are for you. Their beauty I believe is that they are a hunting gun first amd foremost, at a reasonable price, and they will be used in the field more often than not.

Michael.


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walksfar
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Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #109015 - 05/07/08 12:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I've had mine for close to a little over a year now and have taken deer and wild hogs with it without one failure, and it shoots better than some of the
English doubles I've fired and OWNED.




Your point is...?

Quote:

So lets suppose that your talking about lock-up and rigidity, just to give you another leg to stand on.
Well, you've lost on that one too, because after close to 200rds. mine is still as tight as when I got it.




Establishes nothing of the sort. Well made double rifles chambered for cartridges that they're intended for will stay on face for thousands of rounds, not hundreds.

Quote:

So, why not get other peoples opinions before stating something as fact on this website?-Because the un-knowing person might just be seeking to learn something that is fact, and not just based on BUNK.




Actually, he's not so far off. When these were $1800 rifles, that conversion was a push. Now that they're so overpriced, it's a non-starter. You're far from the only one that's tried it. It's been done, but not always successfully, and I know of no one that has successfully re-regulated one. And, of course, you end up with an out of proof gun. Ok, so it shoots well. Luck doesn't mean that it isn't a gamble, nor does it establish that the conversion was successful or appropriate, or even safe.





I love different opinions, but, I simply stated that it can be done sucessfully. However, my time is valuable, and I simply cannot chase this topic down any further, as it is not worth it.

--------------------
..Faith in God and the Mauser...

Member-DRSS


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4seventy
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Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: Michael]
      #109030 - 05/07/08 03:27 PM

Michael,
A grand kill for a double rifle that's for sure!
I've never hunted Sambar, but, one day maybe I'll get there, and of course with a double!
Great photos and an interesting rifle!


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tinker
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Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: walksfar]
      #109032 - 05/07/08 03:49 PM

I think one thing we need to distinguish here is the difference between 'Can' and 'Has'

Quote:


...I simply stated that it can be done sucessfully...




Success is also up for interpretation, as the rifle discussed is noted as having been converted to 450no2NE

Without chronograph data there's no way of telling what the velocity of the regulation load is.
For one thing, we'd take FPS and from there we could get pretty close to guesstimating pressure.
From there we could compare that pressure to the service load pressure the rifle was originally designed and proofed for -- and from there have a sense of how far out of the realm of design operation it's being run at.

Furthermore, without regulation velocity, we can't *really* call this round 450no2NE
Saying that this re-chamber job is a successful conversion to 450no2NE says that one could grab factory Kynoch 480gr 450no2 Nitro Express ammunition, and run it (at 2175fps) through your rifle with no risk of injury, damage, or catastrophic failure...
and it would shoot well -- regulate at that.


Look at the rifle resting across the black target in my sig line.
Notice the two loaded rounds of ammunition, the two fired cases, and the two holes in the target?
The target was printed with that rifle.
The brass is 450no2NE brass from Bertram.
The bullets are 350gr hornady snrn, and the load is a Nitro For Black load of Varget, a fed 215 primer, and 21 grains of dacron...
...and in no way will I ever encourage anyone to consider that rifle a '450no2NE' rifle!!

It's a blackpowder express rifle, built in the early 1880's, originally chambered in a 3-1/2" BPE round that (fortunately for me here in the 21st century) can be reproduced today, only with this elegantly available brass.
My load with the NFB load including powder, dacron, and bullet nearly equals the load mass of the original BPE load.
This load has been chronographed and pressure tested.
The pressure of this load is less than the period BPE load.
My rifle remains a BPE rifle - and I'll never call it a Nitro Express rifle.
I did a boatload of homework and research before I ever stuffed this round down the bores of my rifle too, then crept up to the regulation load over a chronograph.

I illustrate this to put some meat on the table of distinction between
-successful rechamber job
and
-successful cartridge conversion job

Someone, some day, will do a web search of some combination of words or characters or numbers and end up here reading this thread.

I'm putting this into what will be an archive of discussion and reference material that will be available for anyone to find and read.

I feel it's very important to make clear these distinctions so that some soul doesn't end up thinking that what's seen above these words in this discussion thread is supporting data for the notion that 'it's safe/possible/ok/'a good idea' to convert a 45/70 Pedersoli Kodiak Express Double Rifle to 450no2NE'

I'm not convinced that it is safe/possible/ok/'a good thing' to do that or to suggest to anyone else that it is...


...and these are just my thoughts , and not necessarily worth any more than what you've paid for them.


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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tarawa
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Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: tarawa]
      #110804 - 31/07/08 10:32 PM

Well, I ended up purchasing a .72 caliber Pedersoli Kodiak on a live online auction. In anticipation to receiving it, I am starting to gather up what I need to shoot this monster. It supposedly shoots a .715 patched ball, but I have always been a fan of cylindrical bullets. I have been talking to the owner of DixieSlugs here in Florida and he is sending me a sample of their "tusker" slug. If it seems it will work, he will cast me soft lead versions for the Pedersoli. It is funny that he mentioned that one of his molds is at Pedersoli for copying and for trials. I want to thank Martin in Argentina for all his advice on the BP guns.

I am hoping that someone on the board can resize this picture.




Edited by tarawa (31/07/08 10:41 PM)


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degoins
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Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: tarawa]
      #110831 - 01/08/08 05:46 AM

Cool!! I've had one of those ordered since the end of April. Should be fun. If it'll come on, I can start killing deer and pigs (I hope) with it the 15th of August.

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beleg2
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Reged: 15/08/07
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Re: Pedersoli regulation question. [Re: degoins]
      #110856 - 01/08/08 11:16 AM

tarawa,
Congratulations!!
hope it shoots like mine.
I will be following your shooting with much interest, also I would like to know how the tusker works. Thay ahve a very interesting site.
Martin


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