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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
remington double and laser help
      #108650 - 01/07/08 09:05 AM

i have a 3006 laser on the way what do you think about the idea of using the laser shell to bore sight and speed up the sight in process say 1-1.5" high at 25 yards and 1" apart.this is for the russian double that just came out.would be able to see point of impact and adjust as needed before shooting,yea or nea

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THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
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Re: remington double and laser help [Re: bwananelson]
      #108658 - 01/07/08 10:56 AM

It will be interesting for you to report how it all works and whether anything useful can be learned from the laser.

Your observations will be more important than our opinions.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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450_366
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Reged: 17/01/07
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Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: remington double and laser help [Re: bwananelson]
      #108717 - 02/07/08 07:03 AM

Are you going to use it in the breech or are the 45-70 now aviable?

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Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
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Re: remington double and laser help [Re: 450_366]
      #108722 - 02/07/08 09:21 AM

the laser an exact copy of a 3006 shell cool and will shut in the action like a leve round only with a beam of light leaving the barrel instead of the bullet i also got one for the 300wsm if it works they make a 375h+h i want to try

--------------------
THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.

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450_366
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Reged: 17/01/07
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Re: remington double and laser help [Re: bwananelson]
      #108775 - 03/07/08 12:25 AM

I also got a laser but its called aimshot and its a 223 replica. But if your double needs regulating at the mussle the laser beam wont follow your adjustments as it sitts static in the breech. I put mine in the mussle and that way i get a hint to where the barrels are pointing. This isnt where the bullet will land but is a hint, and after a while you will se a pattern.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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tarawa
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Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: remington double and laser help [Re: 450_366]
      #108791 - 03/07/08 03:50 AM

I will be using a muzzle laser to check my point of impact before going to the range. It will be used on both the O&U and SxS 30-06 doubles that I have. Lasers don't bend, so the muzzle version will be the only one that will work with guns that flex the barrels for regulation.

On the O&U I will sight the scope to the fixed top barrel using the laser first. I will try to regulate the bottom barrel to the top barrel's point of impact using the laser and barrel adjustments. Hopefully the horizontal point of impact is in line wth the fixed top barrel.

I will repeat this process with the SxS using the left fixed barrel as my starting point. Hopefully the verical point of impact is in line wth the fixed left barrel.

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Life is for Service

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450_366
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Re: remington double and laser help [Re: tarawa]
      #108796 - 03/07/08 05:21 AM

I would try set the buttom barrel about 20cm above the fixed and the scope there between. But it would only be a hint to how it would shoot.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
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Re: remington double and laser help [Re: 450_366]
      #108807 - 03/07/08 07:59 AM

i am confused if on the front of the barrel moves then the back does not it is a bend in the barrela tube.the whole barrel must move some.the remington has a cog wheel that jacks the barrel i just dont see only part of the barrel moving.what am i missing

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THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.

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tarawa
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Re: remington double and laser help [Re: bwananelson]
      #108858 - 03/07/08 09:33 PM

The rear of the barrels are fixed. You actually flex the center of the barrel to change the point of impact.
Other guns, like the Blaser, move the barrel at the muzzle end to accomplish the same thing.

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Life is for Service

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450_366
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Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: remington double and laser help [Re: bwananelson]
      #108909 - 04/07/08 09:02 AM

If the adjustment is in the mussle its only the freefloating peace of the barrels back to the first rear joint between the barrels that moves. If its in the middle its probably the whole barrel that bend accept for the breech part (where your laser sits).

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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Omnivorous_Bob
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Reged: 03/10/05
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Re: remington double and laser help [Re: 450_366]
      #108911 - 04/07/08 10:46 AM

All SxS doubles bend their barrels in order to regulate. If you think about it, the chambers must be perfectly perpendicular to the breach face or the action wouldn't close on chambered rounds. If the barrels were left parallel for their entire length they would always shoot wide, as the gun swings to the right when the right barrel is fired and vice versa. I'm the first to admit that the idea of bending a barrel seems strange, but we are only talking tiny fractions of an inch. During construction the art is in trying to find the right amount of toe in for the selected load.

After that the art lies in finding that 'magic' load that balances a host of often conflicting factors (ie, more powder gives more recoil but less barrel time). My 10 bore took 3 years to go from crossing 9" at 30 yards (with the "historic" load)to parallel by going through almost 40 combinations of cases, powders, wads, cards, lengths, patches, crimps, and lubes. I think being able to simply pick the load YOU want then tune the barrels to that is a godsend.

I'm also interested in what you learn from this and what patterns you find. Please keep us posted!

Bob

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"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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DUGABOY1
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Re: remington double and laser help [Re: CptCurl]
      #109274 - 08/07/08 11:15 PM

Quote:

It will be interesting for you to report how it all works and whether anything useful can be learned from the laser.

Your observations will be more important than our opinions.

Curl



I can't wait to see if the observations he gets with the lazer are what he expects!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
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Re: remington double and laser help [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #109322 - 09/07/08 02:42 PM

Somewhere I read that cartridges in doubles are not perfectly perpendicular to the standing breech and that this can cause trouble when reloaded and rechambered. Any thoughts, anyone?

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
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Re: remington double and laser help [Re: Paul]
      #109326 - 09/07/08 03:13 PM

My brass has all worked out fine, no issues with 'crooked heads'



--Tinker

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--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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xsheadspace
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Reged: 09/07/08
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Loc: Upstate NY
Re: remington double and laser help [Re: tinker]
      #109344 - 09/07/08 10:26 PM

My home built 45-100 DR was way off at 25 tds(like 18" apart) when I set the temporary spacers according to a laser in the muzzles. But it was centered on the paper..... My barrels are fixed at the front sling swivel, and adjustable at the muzzle.

--------------------
hippie redneck geezer

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
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Re: remington double and laser help [Re: bwananelson]
      #109363 - 10/07/08 01:57 AM

I wish you all the luck in the world with your project, but I have tried the laser trick in the muzzles and it didn't help out much. I know that putting a laser in at the breech end will tell you nothing, the barrels are bent slightly when the gun is built, (not enough to affect reloading though), and because of recoil and the twisting of the barrels around their center of mass when each is fired, the bullets won't go where the lasers point. To even get the points of impact close, the lasers would have to be lower than POI and crossed to each other to get the POI's close together.
How much? That's the golden question.

There are numerous things that affect regulation, recoil, elapsed time of the bullet while still in the barrel, gun weight, bullet weight, barrel configuration, wheather it's an OU or SXS, and MOON PHASE. Just joking on the last one, but after you have done a few of these, you would just about swear that anything can affect the regulating of a double, and you wouldn't be far off!

Here's a valuable hint if you will: If it is a side by side, adjust the barrels to shoot at the same height first, then adjust the in and out on the same horizontal plane. If it is and over and under, adjust the right and left adjustments first, then get them converging together up and down last. In other words, do the spread between barrels or convergence last. You will have to make several adjustments anyway, and some times they won't all fall into this rule, but as a general rule, this works out best. Bob H.

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3595
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Re: remington double and laser help [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #109406 - 10/07/08 12:56 PM

Quote:

Somewhere I read that cartridges in doubles are not perfectly perpendicular to the standing breech and that this can cause trouble when reloaded and rechambered. Any thoughts, anyone?


Don't believe everything you read!

The barrel-group should have parallel chambers, perpendicular to the breech-face, and the tubes should curve inwards at some point well forward of the chambers. xs hints at this in his post. A pair of barrels will rarely, if ever, have straight-tapered converging bore centre-lines all the way from the breech-face, although in the 150 years of cartridge double guns across several continents, anything is possible!

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