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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns
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Big_Sarge
.224 member


Reged: 26/06/08
Posts: 16
Loc: Mississippi
Double 8 Bore Cost
      #108240 - 27/06/08 05:04 AM

I'm a deployed soldier & I'm saving my pay for a new toy. Can anyone give me a ballpark figure what I should expect to pay for a hammered double 8 Bore made by J&W Tolley?

This will be my first bore gun. I have a couple of Sniders, two .45-70, and a Gemmer .40-65. I've been looking for something larger & I think an 8 Bore would be perfect.

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tinkerModerator
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Double 8 Bore Cost [Re: Big_Sarge]
      #108246 - 27/06/08 06:48 AM

Sarge-

The accuracy of any answer is going to have to take into consideration *when* you plan to purchase, what the value of the dollar will look like then, also action type and condition.

I'm going to guess, from my 'not at all a victorian firearms appraiser' standpoint, that current value on a J&W Tolley Jones underlever back action hammer double rifle in shooting condition (tight on face, no mechanical problems, regulates with a known load), without the case, tools, mould etc. is going to run in the $25,000 - $35,000 range with today's US dollars.
That's my guess.

I'm interested to see what the guys who are much more 'in the know' will have to say.




--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Big_Sarge
.224 member


Reged: 26/06/08
Posts: 16
Loc: Mississippi
Re: Double 8 Bore Cost [Re: tinker]
      #108247 - 27/06/08 07:12 AM

I was hoping to find one around $10,000. I guess I'll need to save more

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: Double 8 Bore Cost [Re: Big_Sarge]
      #108264 - 27/06/08 11:08 AM

Quote:

I'm a deployed soldier & I'm saving my pay for a new toy. Can anyone give me a ballpark figure what I should expect to pay for a hammered double 8 Bore made by J&W Tolley?




Sounds as though you have a specific gun in mind? Big 8's in good condition are in the 25k+ range but shootable guns can be found cheaper. A Holland single 8 did not sell, I think, in the last Greg Martin auction. Perhaps that gun is stll available, the low estimate was 15K.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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tinkerModerator
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Double 8 Bore Cost [Re: Big_Sarge]
      #108302 - 27/06/08 05:13 PM

Sarge-

Here's a J.Beattie 8bore Jones bar action advertised for $19k

Link to Gunsinternational listing

Seems it still has it's sights, but it also looks like it's been messed with some. There used to be sliding safeties on those locks...





--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Big_Sarge
.224 member


Reged: 26/06/08
Posts: 16
Loc: Mississippi
Re: Double 8 Bore Cost [Re: tinker]
      #108324 - 27/06/08 11:43 PM

I'm looking for a shooter. I'm not that interested in the collector's value. I heard it was easier to find a Tolley. Hence that was why I inquired. I might have to look at a double .577 Snider. I have a fondness for the cartridge & I already reload it. It is hard to drop $20,000+ on a soldiers pay.

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JohnTheGreek
.300 member


Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt
Re: Double 8 Bore Cost [Re: Big_Sarge]
      #108325 - 28/06/08 12:20 AM

Not to sidetrack you, but you might also consider a front stuffer if you want something in an eight or four bore. It will cost you a LOT less and the cloud generating BOOM is every bit as satisfying. Further, while I do love the vintage weaponry, with this option you are able to build YOUR rifle rather than purchase some dead guy's idea of a perfect elephant rifle.

http://gefrohbigbores.com/

Best,

John

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tinkerModerator
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Double 8 Bore Cost [Re: Big_Sarge]
      #108336 - 28/06/08 02:41 AM

Sarge-

Good support for the relative likelihood of your finding a Tolley 8-bore is the fact that Tolley was a specialist in the large bore-rifle niche.

Tolley 8-bore rifles will value somewhat lower than H&H or Purdey, but not so greatly as to show up as 'bargain' priced guns.
Tolley guns and rifles are very much high quality product.
Another name you might shop for is Rodda.
They are in a similar value tier as Tolley and also built some very nice guns and rifles in the very large-bore niche.


Consider the very scarce nature of the 8-bore cartridge rifle in the first place, and that servicable surviving examples will command a very good price.

Further, the rifle shown above would likely need quite a workover before it would be a running rifle.

Gatsby noted a single barrel H&H which did not sell at a recent auction -- I'm not sure of the details there, but that might be showing that if you shop single shot rifles, you may get your prize at your price.

Also consider a muzzle loading rifle.
It's unlikely you'll find a SxS 8-bore in shooting shape much or any cheaper than a breech loader, but there are quite a few modern builders putting out beautiful replicas of 19th century work.
Look through SZIHN's posts for photos of some of his english sporting rifles.
He does 8-bore rifles that shoot very well and are quite beautiful.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Big_Sarge
.224 member


Reged: 26/06/08
Posts: 16
Loc: Mississippi
Re: Double 8 Bore Cost [Re: tinker]
      #108339 - 28/06/08 04:27 AM

Good info guys. I will check out the muzzleloaders. If you noticed from my previous posts, I have a fondness for BP cartridges & frontloaders. Thanks

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JohnTheGreek
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Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt
Re: Double 8 Bore Cost [Re: tinker]
      #108340 - 28/06/08 04:28 AM

Sarge,

I actually think you MAY find a double front stuffer for around $10K..quite a bit less than a breech loading double eight bore. Steve Zihn is definitely someone to speak with in this regard. The thing is, when you get around $10K, you have already eclipsed the price of a used or even new Merkel double in .470 or .500 NE. At that point, one has to assess how badly one wants the novelty of a bore rifle....and that comes from someone who loves them. The thing about the single muzzleloading bore rifles, built by either Steve Zihn or Jim Gefroh, is that one could buy it, shoot the heck out of it, and pay for a lot of HUNTING with the remaining $7K. If you took into account the street price of a breech loading 8 bore, you could actually pay Steve or Jim and (with the difference) also probably buy an bull elephant hunt or cow elephant/Buffalo combo. Just thinking out loud.

Best,

John

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Big_Sarge
.224 member


Reged: 26/06/08
Posts: 16
Loc: Mississippi
Re: Double 8 Bore Cost [Re: JohnTheGreek]
      #108341 - 28/06/08 04:32 AM

Good point John. Especially when you consider the biggest game I hunt is hogs. Though I am planning a buffalo (bison) hunt with my Gemmer when I get home.

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tinkerModerator
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Double 8 Bore Cost [Re: Big_Sarge]
      #108346 - 28/06/08 05:21 AM

Sarge-
Here's a thread from our site here of a forum member who bought one of Steve Zihn's 8-bore muzzle loading rifles and took it out on a successful pig hunt.

Link to 8-Bore Vs Wild Boar thread

Here's that man, his Zihn rifle, and the pig.



Hopefully this gives you some good food for thought.


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

Edited by tinker (28/06/08 05:48 AM)

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Omnivorous_Bob
.333 member


Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 286
Loc: Montana
Re: Double 8 Bore Cost [Re: tinker]
      #108396 - 28/06/08 04:01 PM

This doesn't have anything to do with cost, but a friend of mine who is an avid collector and African hunter has some nice pictures of a variety of 8 bore rifles from several makers to drool over at:

8-bore pictures

In addition to muzzle loaders, you might want to keep an eye out for a 10 or 12 bore double too. Eights command a bit of a premium these days and a similar actioned/condition 10 or 12 is often much cheaper, and still a hell of a pig gun. They are also more common. I found a 10 bore Tolley at a "reasonable" price a few years ago because it had non-rebounding hammers and someone had blacked the damascus barrels, neither of which bothered me the least as it was mechanically sound. It will be my moose and bear gun this year.

My final advice if you go with a bore gun is to save those nickels and dimes, find a gun you really like and get it checked out by a pro, and then just do it. They're highly addicting and they are not making any more of them. You'll be glad you did, trust me! Keep us posted on what you find.

Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 2027
Loc: Denmark
Re: Double 8 Bore Cost [Re: Big_Sarge]
      #108520 - 30/06/08 03:29 AM

Quote:

I was hoping to find one around $10,000. I guess I'll need to save more



Yep ..you do that!. Very much adviceable!.

Bore-doublerifles are becomming scarce, and attractive to collectors/doublerifle-buffs these days.
The Manton 10 bore I bought last year for 15K would cost me even more today if a similar gun were to be found in same condition . Realistic price for a good, strong 8 bore double could easely go into the 20-30K figures. Even though you want a "shooter", you still need a gun that is strong, tight, good rifling, "on face", not too pitted internally/externally.
You shall also deside what type of borerifle you want. Some can shoot roundballs only, some are made for projectiles(faster twist), papercased gun (.835cal) or a brass cased gun (.875cal)??. Believe me..there are a price difference in all these things I mention here.
Look around a lot, and never be affraid of asking too much, and get a feeling of the market. You might get lucky and envy all of us here...hahahaha

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tinkerModerator
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Double 8 Bore Cost (Greener Single Barrel...) [Re: rigbymauser]
      #108927 - 04/07/08 04:11 PM

Here's a Greener 8b Jones UL single barrel rifle.
Thad Scott has it listed for just under 19kUSD




The rifle is liated at the GunsInternational site.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27705
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Double 8 Bore Cost (Greener Single Barrel...) [Re: tinker]
      #109005 - 05/07/08 08:46 AM

Biog Sarge- be very careful with muzzleloaders. Get the BP into your blood stream and it becomes addictive - especially with one of Steve's fine rifles.
: For Pigs, I'd prefer something on the order of a modern made side hammer percussion single or double ML for round ball in 14 bore. A 66" to 75" twist would be fine.
: My own .012" deep, 66" twist 14 bore shot very accurately with 125gr. to 200gr. of 2F, yet recoil was low enough to allow much shooting in practise. My hunting load was 165gr. 2F and it "STAGGERS" moose. Second shots not needed.
; If ordering a new one, I'd go with shallower rifling - about .006" to .007", in about 80" of twist to allow easy loading with full power loads using WW alloy balls.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (05/07/08 08:51 AM)

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