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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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herrdoktor
.275 member


Reged: 03/08/07
Posts: 85
Loc: Spain
SHOW YOUR CHEAP DOUBLES!
      #107856 - 22/06/08 04:09 AM

I just saw a post in the forum; "cheapo trio" or something like that. Well, I would like to see more doubles like THAT. Certainly, I love Purdeys, but I need at least one year of my earnings to buy one. Let´s show some cheap (or at least affordable) doubles. They do not need to be ugly or shoot bad. If you show them, please tell us the price you paid for them (no cheating, please) and how you got them.

Here are some photos of my 8x60RS Franz Sodia... 1500€ (2300$, more or less). A very practical double for European hunting. It is not very easy (but not impossible) to get ammunition in Spain. As you can see in one of the photos, the previous owner was not very kind with a stuck case in the lower barrel (dirty chamber). Not a fantastic wood or elaborate engravings, but nice to shoot.

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: SHOW YOUR CHEAP DOUBLES! [Re: herrdoktor]
      #107860 - 22/06/08 04:32 AM

Herr-

First thing, please accept my warm welcome to this website.
I think you will find that NitroExpress is a great community of bright and generous folk.

What you have there is a very, very nice double rifle.
There isn't anything cheap about it.
You are fortunate to have gotten it for such a nice price, and it's also fortunate that you're comfortable with the marks from years of use and handling. That character to some people is seen as 'devaluation', it can also be seen as opportunity.

There are many features of this rifle that illustrate it's relatively high grade in it's class.
Note the double cross bolt locking lugs, the multi-piece forend, the ejectors, the specially shaped action where the wood meets (known as 'scalloped action'), and the claw mounting system for telescopic optics.
Also, the builder is known and recognized as having produced very fine rifles, and Ferlach has a long history of fine gunbuilding.

This really is a nice rifle!

You say you can get 8x60R (rimmed) ammunition in Spain.
I very much want some brass for this cartridge.
Can you please, please, please look into getting me some of this brass?
I currently do special modification of 7mm rimmed brass to get cases for my rifle, but I would very much want some original 8x60r Rimmed brass.


Furthermore on your rifle, it's important that you know for sure what your bore and groove measurements are.
Have you slugged your bores to make sure you know which bullet diameter (.318" or .323") to use for your rifle?
Can you share with us what your regulation load is for this rifle, what bullet at what velocity, what formula of powder and primer?
What is the accuracy of this rifle?
Do both barrels group together very well, is one barrel more accurate than the other, higher velocity than the other?


Congratulations on having gotten such a nice rifle at such a nice price.
You should be proud of yourself and of your rifle.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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herrdoktor
.275 member


Reged: 03/08/07
Posts: 85
Loc: Spain
Re: SHOW YOUR CHEAP DOUBLES! [Re: tinker]
      #107865 - 22/06/08 05:26 AM

Hello, Tinker:
I am only 25% "Herr" (German grandma)
Yes, I know the double rifle I have. I really like the Kersten lock of the Franz Sodia doubles and I searched some time before finding it...

I got the rifle cheap because is difficult to find ammunition for it! As you can see in this photos, it is a 8x60RS, .323 bullet diameter. The caliber was relatively common in Spain say forty years ago and was used for our driven hunt. I know at least another spanish hunter that reloads for it.
I got the rifle just two days ago and I am in the busy proccess of finding something to shoot with it! A friend of mine happens to have twenty rounds of 1920 vintage (Swiss fabrication), the bullet in the label is the 186 grains one. I will tell you about how it shoots as soon as I know. It is probably regulated for the 186 or the 196 bullet, but I´ll keep you informed.
Regarding brass, I know of a German manufacturer, Honeber, but it is not cheap at all (something in the 5-6€ each case). I have just asked my gunsmith for availability. In Europe, you can find Wolfgang Romey ammunition, fine but very expensive. Maybe this link is of better use for you:

http://www.cartouches-sologne.fr/catalogue.pdf

It is the catalogue of Sologne, a French ammunition manufacturer. They list 8x60RS in four different weights and brand of bullet. They are much cheaper than Honeber brass. They make the caliber for the Belguian market, where the 8x60 is "widely" used.
I wlii keep you informed in the forum or by PM.

Antonio Molins, Spain.

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: SHOW YOUR CHEAP DOUBLES! [Re: herrdoktor]
      #107867 - 22/06/08 05:46 AM

Antonio-

Thank you very much for the reference to Sologne ammunition.
This is very good news.

I will ask a local outfitter if he can get some of these imported to the US.

I wonder if one of our French forum members knows of a source of this ammunition, local to them in France.
I think that empty brass, without the bullet and powder can be shipped easily to the US from Europe.

If this is so, it might be cheaper to have someone in Europe buy the ammunition, fire it or pull the bullets and powder, and ship it to me that way.


This could be good!
Thanks again.


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: SHOW YOUR CHEAP DOUBLES! [Re: herrdoktor]
      #107876 - 22/06/08 08:03 AM

Hmm, cheap you say. Sure you bought it cheap but its a very nice rifle. Hope you find any game for it.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: SHOW YOUR CHEAP DOUBLES! [Re: herrdoktor]
      #107878 - 22/06/08 08:22 AM

Herzlich willkommen Herrdoktor!

I have a Greifelt Drilling, caliber 12X12X8X60 (unfortunately not "S" bore). I have had no difficulty forming brass from 9.3X74R brass, which is relatively cheap, and sometimes available as once fired cases on German web sites. The resulting cases tend to be a little thick in the neck, but a little judicious reaming or turning can cure that. Not the most popular cartridge in the world, but certainly an improvement over the 8X57, which needed little improvement to start with. I have another drilling in the works, caliber 8X65RS, for which I intend to form cases from 7X65R brass.

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herrdoktor
.275 member


Reged: 03/08/07
Posts: 85
Loc: Spain
Re: SHOW YOUR CHEAP DOUBLES! [Re: xausa]
      #107919 - 23/06/08 03:36 AM

Hello, Xausa:
I have sent you a PM regarding your system to make 8x60 from 9,3x74R, but other people may be interested, it is really plentiful in Spain. Do you use special dies or just "cut and form" with the standard sizing die in a single pass? A friend of mine makes 8x75RS brass from 9,3x74R for his double, but it is the same case length necked down.
I heard from another 8x60 owner that directly shoots 8x57 cartridges in his rifle (I suppose the bullet diameter is the same or lesser...). The resulting case must be, er, weird. He has survived to this day, I understand...

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beleg2
.375 member


Reged: 15/08/07
Posts: 591
Loc: Bahía Blanca - Argentina
Re: SHOW YOUR CHEAP DOUBLES! [Re: herrdoktor]
      #107926 - 23/06/08 06:58 AM

Anotnio,
congratulation for your new rifle!!!
I will like to explain a little confusion. In english the word "cheap" means low quality and/ low priced, but in spanish "barato" mean mostly low priced. I think Antonio means that this is a low price rifle not a low quality one.(espero que no te moleste la aclaración Antonio).

My low priced rifles:
W.Richards .577 Snider. I bought it around 1990 and I payed $200.-(USA) for it and the pay $300.- for restoration.





More to come.
Martin

Edited by beleg2 (23/06/08 06:59 AM)

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beleg2
.375 member


Reged: 15/08/07
Posts: 591
Loc: Bahía Blanca - Argentina
Re: SHOW YOUR CHEAP DOUBLES! [Re: beleg2]
      #107927 - 23/06/08 07:06 AM

Around 2000 I bought a J.P.Sauer single shot for $100.- at a garage sale.
Then rebarrelled it to .22 Hornet for another 150.-





And lastly my Kodiak .58".
I get it for $ 1.300.- almost new. You have to pay almost 2000.- for a new one in Argentina.

Thanks
Martin

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herrdoktor
.275 member


Reged: 03/08/07
Posts: 85
Loc: Spain
Re: SHOW YOUR CHEAP DOUBLES! [Re: beleg2]
      #107960 - 24/06/08 12:07 AM

Martin:
You can read my mind...
A W.Richards for 200$... in Spain that´s called "chollo".

Antonio.

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: SHOW YOUR CHEAP DOUBLES! [Re: beleg2]
      #107971 - 24/06/08 04:01 AM

For the Hollis 500/450 NE rebounding back action under-lever I paid $4900.00



--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: SHOW YOUR CHEAP DOUBLES! [Re: herrdoktor]
      #107984 - 24/06/08 08:36 AM

So far I have simply cut the original cases roughly to size using a tubing cutter, then resized in a 8X60 die and neck turned and trimmed to length using a Forster power case trimmer. I have since obtained an RCBS trim die in 8X57, which I can adjust to the proper length for the 8X60. Such dies come up fairly frequently on eBay and are quite inexpensive.

You PM has not arrived, which is the reason for my lack of response until now.

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: SHOW YOUR CHEAP DOUBLES! [Re: xausa]
      #107987 - 24/06/08 09:33 AM

Xausa

Thanks for getting this information into the discussion thread.
It's good information to have in this public archived discussion for others to see in the future.

As soon as I can get out to the ranch I'll grab some 9.3x74 brass and work it as you've noted here.
Thanks for the tip.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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zimhunter
.333 member


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: SHOW YOUR CHEAP DOUBLES! [Re: tinker]
      #108053 - 25/06/08 12:31 AM

Cutoff and forming dies are available from RCBS. I sold my Geyger and let the dies go with it. The dies came with neck reamer and cutoff as a set if my memory serves. It's been several years ago and the dies were not listed, I had to call RCBS. I don't remember them as being very expensive. I shot a Donaldson Wasp for years so making up brass was an easy trick. Never had any factory 8x60RS brass so don't know what the difference in use would be. the 9x74 conversion worked well for me.

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: SHOW YOUR CHEAP DOUBLES! [Re: zimhunter]
      #108058 - 25/06/08 01:29 AM

Yeah I know this is the double rifle forum but the topic is cheap doubles and I qualify there.

During my two year tour down in South Africa, I saw a number of Belgium proofed .410 double barrel "Poachers" folding shotguns. They all seemed quite well made and come in a number of different grades and configurations; a skeletonized butt stock being the most notable.

Yes you guessed it I could not go home without one. I paid a bit more than I wanted, but that's another story.

Never take your wife gun shopping....When we went in to start dickering she was with me. She looked at the figured wood and color case on the receiver and used words like, cute, adorable, pretty. I asked the guy how much and he said R1400. Before I could say "would you take...? She says we will take it...we had a talk about that later. None the less from the time we made the deal to the time I went to pick up the Rand to pay for them, the Rand dropped from R7.3 to the dollar to R8.3. So that saved me about $20 a gun...

I have heard her talking about "Her" gun...what do you mean we kimo sabe?

I have no idea who made this gun. I do know it is a Systeme Leclerc. For the import permits we settled on Leclercq, Manufacture Liegiose d'Armes du Fues and ATF blessed me.

This gun shows some handling marks on the stock but everything else about it says little to no use. The Action is tight and stiff, and locks up tight. No "wiggle" anywhere. The chamber takes a 2 1/2 inch shell.

The gun is pretty light and when the wife shot it yesterday, she didn't like it any more. Have to admit the little gun does jump a bit when fired. Put a box of shells through it and killed a bunch of gophers this weekend.

It’s my only double, and it’s not a rifle. Unless my annuities go astronomic, there probably will never be a double rifle in my life…rather spend the money on a hunting trip.


















--------------------
DD, Ret.

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herrdoktor
.275 member


Reged: 03/08/07
Posts: 85
Loc: Spain
Re: SHOW YOUR CHEAP DOUBLES! [Re: DoubleD]
      #108066 - 25/06/08 03:09 AM

DoubleD:

"Never take your wife gun shopping...."

You are lucky... If you ask MY wife about the money I have paid for my doubles, ALL of them woud be in the "bargain" department...

Nice double.

Antonio.

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tarawa
.333 member


Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: SHOW YOUR CHEAP DOUBLES! [Re: herrdoktor]
      #108343 - 28/06/08 04:54 AM

Here are my three in the correct forum...still cheap...even the scopes.



--------------------
Life is for Service

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: SHOW YOUR CHEAP DOUBLES! [Re: herrdoktor]
      #108365 - 28/06/08 10:56 AM

Herrdoktor,

Are you trying to give those of us who live in the USA a permanent depression by posting about a Franz SOdia double at $ 2300?

Ditto for Martin in Argentina...

Thanks for posting, gentlemen, and my congratulations to you on your very good fortune!

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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herrdoktor
.275 member


Reged: 03/08/07
Posts: 85
Loc: Spain
Re: SHOW YOUR CHEAP DOUBLES! [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #108414 - 28/06/08 11:50 PM

Mehul Kamdar:
If you knew details about the prices we have to pay in Spain for a Leupold scope (three or four times the USA price) or the difficulties for reloading (almost a criminal offence), or the trouble for a normal citizen to obtain a weapon license (for a rifle, it is almost impossible to have a handgun), your depression should mostly fade away. My Franz Sodia is a rare accident. The other troubles are for everyone and every day.

As soon as I can shoot the Sodia, I will keep you posted.

Antonio, Spain.

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