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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Woodleigh Bullets gone wild.
      #105830 - 22/05/08 09:58 AM

Midway USA has repriced there woodleigh FMJs at $103 for 50!

B.


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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Woodleigh Bullets gone wild. [Re: bonanza]
      #105852 - 22/05/08 06:17 PM

Thats still the most important and least expensive item on a hunt ?!

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Woodleigh Bullets gone wild. [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #105861 - 22/05/08 11:00 PM

Quote:

Thats still the most important and least expensive item on a hunt ?!




Not being critical at all, but that old saw is only sort-of true.

The whole "cost of bullets" topic is an interesting one, tho.

A guy has to ask himself how well he wants to be able to shoot, instinctively and from various positions, reloading after shooting, etc.

When I was selling guns, the fellows we outfitted who owned the big ones shot them relatively little, certainly little enough that I wondered how most could hit a barn from the inside. This is often reinforced by PH's who comment on the poor shooting skill and/or positive fear many hunters have of their big bores. About the only way to shoot better is to shoot...alot.

How much?

I don't know, but based on my experience in the gunshop years ago, I bet most big bore owners don't squirt 100 rounds thru their guns in anticipation of a hunt, and that is in my opinion not very much ammo, barely enough to function test the gun itself.

I am going to guess that a large number of frequenters of this Forum would shoot and do shoot more than that with the gun they are taking to wallop Meneer Buffel, but there are many, many hunters who head to Africa, for example, every year. I personally do not remember a single instance of a fellow shooting a .458 or comparable gun who shot it very much at all.

To put 500 rounds through a big bore at just the price quoted by Rhett {along with powder, cases, new ones for the hunt, etc}, and you see the cost is actually significant, still less than airfare, but significant just the same. And is 500 rounds enough?

Who knows. For many guys it is enough to permanently infuse a Grand Mal-seizure-like flinch which is why they shun skill-building with the big bore in the first place, and why we read from many PH's that they would way rather have a guy bring a 9.3x62 he can hit a beer cooler with at 100 yards than a bigbore he can't hit the door of the scrapped-out Land Cruiser with at 25.

I'm interested to hear what others think, but it seems to me that reduced-load cast or otherwise cheap bullets are a good way to address functioning and gun handling aspects of this challenge, as long as enough full-powered rounds are used to really get to know the POI of the rounds at all reasonable ranges and to become accustomed to full power recoil, etc.

{This last bit being a trouble spot for doubles, obviously, due to regulation issues.}

What say ye?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9ThreeXFifty7 (23/05/08 12:39 AM)


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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
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Re: Woodleigh Bullets gone wild. [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #105873 - 23/05/08 02:13 AM

It's the weak dollar.

Hornady now makes 480 grain .458 projectiles.


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Woodleigh Bullets gone wild. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #105889 - 23/05/08 04:34 AM

I hear you in spades, Rod. Along with the PH's who have to deal with hunters way over gunned, I have the same opinions with many/most of the hunters I've seen in camp. Of the hunters I have experience with, many, but not all, show a lack of experience & very poor skill in shooting the 7mm mags, .30/06's .300 mags. and .338's they brought due to recoil. I can only imagine the headaches some of the PH's have to deal with when hunters show up with .458's through .577's who have little or no experience shooting them - thinking ranges are short so no problem. They may even hit with the first shot - rarely with any afterwards. This happens with a pop-gun 7mm mag. or '06, let alone a gun that can hurt or disorient.
: I see this most often at the range with the new Ultra- mags. and young people - for many it's the first centrefire they've owned. First shot somewhere on the paper, none after that and the cheap plastic gun case melts around the barrel when they put it away.
: Of course, this is about those hunting and on Safari - with many of them, its the same deal except they havne't even put 40 rounds through the gun - kicks too much or costs too much to shoot.
: #2.00 per bullet for reloading is too much for msot people to practise, so they don't. If they practise at all, it's with something like a .223 or .22LR - yup - good enough!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Re: Woodleigh Bullets gone wild. [Re: DarylS]
      #105891 - 23/05/08 05:18 AM

Well, the O/U .470 arrives in about 4 weeks, it has been back to Dumoulin to have double triggers fitted and re-regulated for federal ammo at 60 yds. I am going to put 10 rounds of soft and 10 rounds of solids through it off the lead sled to check the POI and regulation. the remaining 60 rounds I guess I will shoot offhand and off sticks for practice for Sept. Lets see how I get on. I've banged a few .470's before but not many. Then I'll have to order some more but you are right about the price...it's not cheap ! best, Mike

p.s. I will put a couple of photos up when I can. My gun chap in the UK called today and said it looks like a decent gun for what it cost.


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Woodleigh Bullets gone wild. [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #105917 - 23/05/08 02:53 PM

the great advantage of 404 and 10,75x68. there is no rocket science to reduce .429 pistol bullets to .424 for target practice. only the old german 11,2 schuler with a .440 caliber will go similar with .451 bullets.
anyone ever try to make bullets for the .375 from 222 and 223 brass? they all measure .374-.375 on the base.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
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Re: Woodleigh Bullets gone wild. [Re: lancaster]
      #105922 - 23/05/08 03:58 PM


Quote:

anyone ever try to make bullets for the .375 from 222 and 223 brass?



Nah. Cheap .375 projectiles have never been hard to find.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Woodleigh Bullets gone wild. [Re: Marrakai]
      #105924 - 23/05/08 04:26 PM

Maybe you should look at Huntingtons..


http://www.huntingtons.com/bullets_woodleigh.html

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Woodleigh Bullets gone wild. [Re: lancaster]
      #105941 - 23/05/08 10:31 PM

Quote:

the great advantage of 404 and 10,75x68. there is no rocket science to reduce .429 pistol bullets to .424 for target practice. only the old german 11,2 schuler with a .440 caliber will go similar with .451 bullets.
anyone ever try to make bullets for the .375 from 222 and 223 brass? they all measure .374-.375 on the base.




Bullet resizing has a lot of positive value as Daryl and I have posted here with .375's reduced to 9.3 caliber.

Never made .375's, but I have made 9.3's from 9x19 and 7.62x25 cases, as posted here in the past.

Great idea about applying the resizing option to the big bores. Anything that gets a fellow into the woods and on the range with his gun {strolls, walks, varmint hunting, etc} before a hunt is a plus; action functioning, reloading, handling, pointing, trigger break all are mechanical issues that take getting used to on any gun, and full power loads are not necessary for such work. Zeroing and shooting at all reasonable ranges under a variety of shooting positions, IMO, are.

Regarding cost of ammo, I was just talking to my gunsmith yesterday, and he mentioned the amazing popularity of the Ultramags in this area. for a host of reasons, gun sales stagnated for many years till about the time of their release, then exlpoded. He brought up the fact that while the CARTRIDGES are excellent, there are precious few fellows who can shoot them. He said "too expensive, kicks too much" are the excuses a whole new generation of shooters use to avoid what I like to call "Skillbuilding" with their rifles. Fear rules the day. I've noticed the same thing.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
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Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: Woodleigh Bullets gone wild. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #105944 - 23/05/08 11:20 PM

Metal prices have gone up with China's demand but compared with the price of loaded NE cartridges, $2 a bullet is not that much.

Practice on the other hand can be a two-edged sword. We use heavy-kicking calibres because we want to or have a need, but it may not be good for us. I seem to recall that some research found the average bod can't handle more than the .30/06 without developing a flinch. Yes, the old-timers used whoppers but may not have practised much. Recoil was probably not a problem with an elephant at seven yards or a tiger on the head of the one you rode (as the dude is quoted hereabouts).

A few subloads, maybe, a bit of practice with my double shotgun, but I won't be putting 500 store-bought slugs through the db rifle I take to Africa. As I discovered when shooting farmed pheasants a few years ago, the hip-pocket nerve really can make you flinch after a while. But it's not only the cost of ammo I would be worried about. Double rifles can make a good investment, but not if you wear them out.


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Bill_Cooley
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Re: Woodleigh Bullets gone wild. [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #105946 - 23/05/08 11:37 PM

Quote:

Well, the O/U .470 arrives in about 4 weeks, it has been back to Dumoulin to have double triggers fitted and re-regulated for federal ammo at 60 yds. I am going to put 10 rounds of soft and 10 rounds of solids through it off the lead sled to check the POI and regulation.




That will be 20 rounds wasted. Double rifles don't shoot to the same point from the bench.
Bill


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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Woodleigh Bullets gone wild. [Re: Bill_Cooley]
      #105952 - 24/05/08 01:39 AM

But thats the point Bill, don't forget it is an O/U and I will be VERY interested in the different POI at 50yds off the sled and off sticks and my bad offhand best, Mike

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Woodleigh Bullets gone wild. [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #105956 - 24/05/08 01:58 AM

Quote:

But thats the point Bill, don't forget it is an O/U and I will be VERY interested in the different POI at 50yds off the sled and off sticks and my bad offhand best, Mike




Mike, since you actually have The Demon Sled, are you able to photo and post your results here {difference between POI with sled and other postions}? If you can photo with digital camera but don't know how to post, lemme know and you can email to me and I'll post.

Granted, yours is an O/U but that would be interesting in and of itself.

And naturally, if nobody with a side-by wants to play, you could always turn yours 90 degrees and have at it!!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Woodleigh Bullets gone wild. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #105965 - 24/05/08 03:17 AM

Quote:

And naturally, if nobody with a side-by wants to play, you could always turn yours 90 degrees and have at it!!




Well I guess he would have to shoot out of bed to do that!

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Re: Woodleigh Bullets gone wild. [Re: CptCurl]
      #105968 - 24/05/08 04:17 AM

As soon as the gun gets here I will get my local trap range manager to open up, I will take the rifle, a bench, the Caldwell sled, a camera, some sticks, a target and 30 rounds and post. I may need help on the picture posting. I have a photobucket album so hopefully can use that, best, Mike

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Woodleigh Bullets gone wild. [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #105981 - 24/05/08 10:53 AM

Quote:

As soon as the gun gets here I will get my local trap range manager to open up, I will take the rifle, a bench, the Caldwell sled, a camera, some sticks, a target and 30 rounds and post. I may need help on the picture posting. I have a photobucket album so hopefully can use that, best, Mike




Kudos to Mike!!

Shooting to test a theory is always a fun endeavour.

When the guys said "230 grain FMJ .45's have better stopping power than 9mm's", I shot a bunch of sheep with them both. When the guys said "pistol bullets won't hole a steel helmet", I bought a bunch of helmets and shot 'em with a pile of pistols. When they said "high sectional density bullets penetrate deeper than low-sec-dense bullets", I bought a some of both and shot them into some test media. When they said ".38 200's tumble when they hit flesh", I shot some goats and sheep with them. All to find out "what gives".

You got me hooked on this one, and I'll be fascinated to see the results.

I've never wanted a double more...

PM me for help on posting if need be. Great stuff!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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ChrisPer
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Re: Woodleigh Bullets gone wild. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #105984 - 24/05/08 12:07 PM

It is pretty clearly fashionable to shoot big boomers, and that means newchums start with new toys that don't let them build their tolerance. I used to find things like .303s, .308s or .270s alarming, but getting that 9.5x57 showed that size can be sweet to shoot...

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new_guy
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Re: Woodleigh Bullets gone wild. [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #106524 - 02/06/08 11:53 PM

Quote:

I am going to put 10 rounds of soft and 10 rounds of solids through it off the lead sled to check the POI and regulation.




Mike - avoid the lead sled... I don't see its place in checking the regulation, unless your rifle was regulated with one or you plan on hunting with one. The extra weight will effect the recoil, and - in turn - the regulation. I've seen broken butt pads from too much weight in the lead sled. Probably a great item for benchrest, but I don't see a place for it with a double.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Woodleigh Bullets gone wild. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #106533 - 03/06/08 03:18 AM

Quote:

A guy has to ask himself how well he wants to be able to shoot, instinctively and from various positions, reloading after shooting, etc.

...

When I was selling guns, the fellows we outfitted who owned the big ones shot them relatively little, certainly little enough that I wondered how most could hit a barn from the inside. This is often reinforced by PH's who comment on the poor shooting skill and/or positive fear many hunters have of their big bores. About the only way to shoot better is to shoot...alot.

How much?

I don't know, but based on my experience in the gunshop years ago, I bet most big bore owners don't squirt 100 rounds thru their guns in anticipation of a hunt, and that is in my opinion not very much ammo, barely enough to function test the gun itself.

...

... And is 500 rounds enough?

...

What say ye?




Well I have never put 500 rounds through my big bore(s) as practice before a hunt. BUT one should be familiar with the rifle. And also practiced with shooting in general. Other rifles also make good shooting practice especially if with open sights.

But if a person is afraid of their rifles recoil well maybe they should use something smaller. A .375 will still kill any elephant out there.

Very little of my practice has been on paper, most on other game.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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