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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder
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Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Advice Needed
      #104972 - 13/05/08 06:50 PM

Hi all, I have a Ruger Old Army cap and ball pistol arriving here soon. Can some one out there advise the best way of cleaning both while using and after use before storing. thanks in advance, Mike

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: Advice Needed [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #105005 - 14/05/08 05:54 AM

Hi Mike

Is it stainless or blued steel.
For stainless, you can just remove the grips and put it in a sink of hot water and clean it up.
Some men put them in a dish washer.
For blue you will have to dry it out when you are finished cleaning it up, if you use water.

I owned one of them many years ago. I shot it a lot. It was blued. In fact, the stainless ones didn't even come out until many years later.
They are not hard to clean.
Always remove the nipples and clean out the threaded holes. I would grease the threads before I put them back in the cylinder.
Clean the bore with a brush as you would any revolver, and swab out the chambers. Oil everything when you have finished cleaning it up. Be sure to get the insides of the chambers and the bore too, I light coat of good oil is all you need.

Steve

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Advice Needed [Re: szihn]
      #105006 - 14/05/08 06:19 AM

Dear Mike and Steve,

I learned the hard way that Joy for Dishes will remove bluing if the revolver is left to soak. It leaves a nice "antique" patina. I disassemble revolvers, because of all the residue that gets inside. After the gun is completely clean and dry, wipe everything with Eezox for excellent rust prevention. Swab the bore and cylinders before loading.

Take care, Tom

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2451
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Advice Needed [Re: Tatume]
      #105022 - 14/05/08 10:42 AM

Okay here goes.

All I use to clean may black powder Martini's is straight Prestone antifreeze. Anti freeze contains anticorrosives and glycol. I run patches down the bore until they come out clean. I wipe the exterior surface and interior parts down with antifreeze soaked patches. The wipe every thing dry with with clean rags.

Then I wipe bore, exterior and interior down with NAPA ATF5. ATF5 also has anti corrosives in it.

I just visited my rifles last week that have been in storage for the past two years while I was in South Africa. Not one speck of Rust or corrosion anywhere.

Usually when I post this about using anti freeze someone comes on and post what a fool I am for using such a dangerous poisonous product like antifreeze that will kill small children and dogs. Just like any cleaning material when you have pets or children you must use resonalble percautions.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Advice Needed [Re: DoubleD]
      #105052 - 14/05/08 06:46 PM

It is the stainless version, thanks to you all, best, Mike

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Dphariss
.300 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Montana
Re: Advice Needed [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #105331 - 17/05/08 02:16 AM

Quote:

It is the stainless version, thanks to you all, best, Mike



Stainless steel is still subject to corrosion.
Blackpowder fouling is easily removed with cool or tepid water and perhaps a little soap. Since its stainless hot water will not cause after rusting and will dry faster.
The internal mechanism need not be cleaned every shooting session. But keep it lubricated.
I like to use Window cleaner with vinegar mixed 1 part cleaner to 2 parts water.

If you use Pyrodex or T-7 you better use hot water and lots of it.

Dan

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Dphariss
.300 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Montana
Re: Advice Needed [Re: DoubleD]
      #105468 - 18/05/08 02:18 PM

Quote:

Okay here goes.

All I use to clean may black powder Martini's is straight Prestone antifreeze. Anti freeze contains anticorrosives and glycol. I run patches down the bore until they come out clean. I wipe the exterior surface and interior parts down with antifreeze soaked patches. The wipe every thing dry with with clean rags.

Then I wipe bore, exterior and interior down with NAPA ATF5. ATF5 also has anti corrosives in it.

I just visited my rifles last week that have been in storage for the past two years while I was in South Africa. Not one speck of Rust or corrosion anywhere.

Usually when I post this about using anti freeze someone comes on and post what a fool I am for using such a dangerous poisonous product like antifreeze that will kill small children and dogs. Just like any cleaning material when you have pets or children you must use resonalble percautions.



Everyone kills themselves in their own way.
I suspect that you need to talk to a chemist that understands BP fouling and ask him if the ingredients actually accomplish anything and are worth the risk.

Dan

From an MSDS sheet on ethylene glycol, sound like really fun stuff.

...3. Hazards Identification

Emergency Overview
--------------------------
WARNING! HARMFUL OR FATAL IF SWALLOWED. HARMFUL IF INHALED OR ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN. MAY CAUSE ALLERGIC SKIN REACTION. MAY CAUSE IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES, AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. AFFECTS CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM.

SAF-T-DATA(tm) Ratings (Provided here for your convenience)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Health Rating: 2 - Moderate (Life)
Flammability Rating: 1 - Slight
Reactivity Rating: 1 - Slight
Contact Rating: 3 - Severe (Life)
Lab Protective Equip: GOGGLES & SHIELD; LAB COAT & APRON; VENT HOOD; PROPER GLOVES
Storage Color Code: Green (General Storage)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Potential Health Effects
----------------------------------

Inhalation:
Vapor inhalation is generally not a problem unless heated or misted. Exposure to vapors over an extended time period has caused throat irritation and headache. May cause nausea, vomiting, dizziness and drowsiness. Pulmonary edema and central nervous system depression may also develop. When heated or misted, has produced rapid, involuntary eye movement and coma.
Ingestion:
Initial symptoms in massive dosage parallel alcohol intoxication, progressing to CNS depression, vomiting, headache, rapid respiratory and heart rate, lowered blood pressure, stupor, collapse, and unconsciousness with convulsions. Death from respiratory arrest or cardiovascular collapse may follow. Lethal dose in humans: 100 ml (3-4 ounces).
Skin Contact:
Minor skin irritation and penetration may occur.
Eye Contact:
Splashes may cause irritation, pain, eye damage.
Chronic Exposure:
Repeated small exposures by any route can cause severe kidney problems. Brain damage may also occur. Skin allergy can develop. May damage the developing fetus.
Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:
Persons with pre-existing skin disorders, eye problems, or impaired liver, kidney, or respiratory function may be more susceptible to the effects of this substance...

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2451
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Advice Needed [Re: Dphariss]
      #105471 - 18/05/08 02:43 PM

hanks, how about posting the MSDS on lead

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
. [Re: DoubleD]
      #105509 - 18/05/08 09:39 PM

.

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Dphariss
.300 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Montana
Re: Advice Needed [Re: DoubleD]
      #105577 - 19/05/08 01:55 PM

Quote:

hanks, how about posting the MSDS on lead



Lead as found in bullet form is not particularly dangerous unless one is shot with it. 2 friends who do LOT of bullet casting and shooting have both tested normal for lead. One was tested because at the time he was casting lot of bullets in a poorly vented garage.
Lead in bullets is not lead acetate (what poisoned the Romans since they used it to sweeten their wine) or lead as found in paint or other such compounds that is easily absorbed by the body regardless of all the lead hysteria BS you hear.
This is basically just an another anti-gun/anti-shooting/anti-hunting "panic the public" ploy.
If you are worried about lead and you have a well or even a public water supply you might have your water tested. It might be more dangerous than handling lead bullets.

Dan

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Dphariss
.300 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Montana
Re: Advice Needed [Re: Tatume]
      #105585 - 19/05/08 03:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

If you use Pyrodex or T-7 you better use hot water and lots of it.



This may be true of Pyrodex; I don't know as I've never used any. If you use Hodgdon Triple 7 you do not need hot water. Triple 7 is hydroscopic but non-corrosive, and the residue dissolves in cold water immediately. My cleaning procedure is to run one patch dampened with tap water, followed by a dry patch. I then repeat, and the second wet patch comes out clean. This patch is then used to clean the exterior of the firearm. A wipe down with T/C Bore Butter completes the cleaning. Many years of completely rust-free use have proven this procedure.




Non-corrosive...
Have you actually looked into this or just taking it on faith?
For a PARTIAL ingredients list see
http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/T7-msds.pdf

Then see if you can find what potassium perchlorate fouling will do to steel.
I suggest you look at the bore under magnification. Given your method of cleaning it might be very informative.
Dan

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5524
Loc: United States
Re: Advice Needed [Re: Dphariss]
      #105612 - 19/05/08 10:39 PM

Quote:

If you are worried about lead and you have a well or even a public water supply you might have your water tested. It might be more dangerous than handling lead bullets.



Interesting statement.

Recently a public posting was made in the town where my business is located indicating the public water supply has higher-than-safe lead levels. Why, unknow, tho lots of areas in northern Idaho have high levels of a variety of metals due to mining, so they say, tho in our immediate area this is not the case. The public water system is mostly surface water piped from creeks, with backup wells also.

I am curious as to the 777 debate. Not trying to stir the pot, but even if the ingredients DID include the same chemical as corrosive priming did, that was easy to clean as long as water was part of the cleaning regimen.

Also, if 777 is really that bad {even when cleaned "properly"} I would think there would be a hew and cry about it by now as lots is being used, whereas what I read almost exclusively is high praise for it. Does that make sense or am I missing something? I do not have any experience with it, but "want to" so I am curious.

Reminds me of when I was a kid and corrosive priming was blamed for ruining guns. It DID ruin guns, but only if not cleaned. Mine never suffered a bit. Miss even a day under the "right" circumstances, tho, and trouble ensued... Is the trouble with 777 like that?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Advice Needed [Re: 9.3x57]
      #105638 - 20/05/08 06:14 AM

I'm tired of arguing with people about components I've tried and they haven't. I'm out.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5524
Loc: United States
Re: Advice Needed [Re: Tatume]
      #105650 - 20/05/08 09:40 AM

No argument here.

I have a use for something like 777 and I've read rave reviews of 777 from those who purport to have vast experience with it and now I hear it's no good. From what I've read, some fellows have vast experience with it and love it. Just trying to sort out the facts as I have a couple uses for it or something like it. Could it be different lots, different/improved recipe, elimination of some chemical? I have no idea.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Dphariss
.300 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Montana
Re: Advice Needed [Re: 9.3x57]
      #105743 - 21/05/08 10:28 AM

Quote:

No argument here.

I have a use for something like 777 and I've read rave reviews of 777 from those who purport to have vast experience with it and now I hear it's no good. From what I've read, some fellows have vast experience with it and love it. Just trying to sort out the facts as I have a couple uses for it or something like it. Could it be different lots, different/improved recipe, elimination of some chemical? I have no idea.



Pyrodex is more corrosive than 777. I believe testing will show both are more corrosive than BP.
777 is "hotter" for use in inlines and such.

Dan

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tarawa
.333 member


Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: Advice Needed [Re: Dphariss]
      #109976 - 19/07/08 05:22 AM

After a day of re-enacting, I would clean my Enfield with hydrogen peroxide. Worked really good.

--------------------
Life is for Service

Edited by tarawa (21/07/08 09:12 PM)

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