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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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dale
.333 member


Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 341
Loc: logan W.V.
Re: Barrels crossing? [Re: 450_366]
      #105851 - 22/05/08 05:24 PM

It seems fairly reasonable that after building ten or so guns using the same frame and bbl. tapers and weight that one could come up with a "close" starting point.   I'm sure most true makers have a close idea of where to start.   For a one man operation though,  it takes so long and you encounter so many unforseen problems that a couple guns are all a man is ever going to do.  Even with the best laid out plans, shit seems to happen and it just isn't feasable to start with a real good gun.  Here is a 7x57r sauer and you can see how wide the bbls. are at the muzzle.  The front ramp had to be that high to get the line of sights right.  This is actually the rest of the parts I recently posted.

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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Barrels crossing? [Re: 450_366]
      #105854 - 22/05/08 07:06 PM

Andreas,
I have done a little bit of double rifle regulating and have never really found any way to calculate the amount of convergence for different double rifles.
If you were to build several very similar doubles in style and cartridge, you most likely would be able to come up with a usefull measurement.

For me, I start at 100 thou convergence every time on each rifle and work from there.
100 thou might be somewhere close to a good starting point, but it could also be a long, long way off as well.
I have never really worried too much about it 'till I shoot it and see what needs to be done.
I've always used the old standard wedge between the barrels for regulating as I have personally seen some other styles which were not always successful.
I make my wedge plenty long enough, so that I can pull it out some distance if the barrels start out shootin apart by a long way, and then there will still be plenty of wedge left for a strong joint.
A long wedge means I can also drift it in a good distance if the barrels start out crossing by a long way.
Sometimes the 100 thou could be so far out that a new wedge needs to be made.
Sometimes 100 thou is pretty close to make a good starting point.
100 thou is approx 2.5 mm.
Much depends on how much barrel length is being moved during the regulating.

The point I'm making is that I like to shoot the rifle and see how the barrels print on paper.
I start at 20 yards, bring the two groups roughly together at that distance, and then work out to longer distance and do the fine adjustment at the wedge.
There are quite a few tricks that you learn along the way, especially with the difficult ones to work on.

There has never been a regulating job that I didn't totally enjoy doing, even though a couple were very hard to get right.


Edit
Thought I'd better clarify that the 100 thou I'm talking about means that the bore centers are 100 thou closer togther at the muzzels than at the breech.


Edited by 4seventy (22/05/08 07:13 PM)

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450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: Barrels crossing? [Re: 4seventy]
      #105864 - 23/05/08 12:28 AM

Damn, i realy wanted someone who could tell me that there was a easy way to give a startingpoint.


Please anyone? If not messure your barrels an let me make the misstakes, it wont hurt your gun i promise.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Barrels crossing? [Re: 450_366]
      #105867 - 23/05/08 01:06 AM

Quote:

Damn, i realy wanted someone who could tell me that there was a easy way to give a startingpoint.


Please anyone? If not messure your barrels an let me make the misstakes, it wont hurt your gun i promise.



450_366 If it were that easy double rifles would be as cheap a 311 Savage shotgun!

As you have found, there are lots of things that you find will not work well, regardless of how simple they seem before you try them! One of the worse ones is trying to regulate liners placed inside old shot barrels, with lop sided bushings! Liners are the absolute worse way of barreling a double rifle on a shotgun action! A double rifle made by an amateur, usually cost more than a good entry level double that shoots properly out of the box, and is ballanced properly to start with. Almost every "HOME-MADE" double rifle I've ever seen was extremely barrel heavy, and handled like a mesquite fense post, even if the work looks good, they usually don't shoot worth crap!

Asking for simple solutions to complex problems is a waste of time, because the answers are not any more simple that the problems are!

However I have seven double rifles of different chamberings! I will measure them all, and post it later, if that is what you want, but I fail to see what good it will do you. because even two doubles chambered the same way, and of the same barrel length will not regulate the same!


................................Good luck with your project!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: Barrels crossing? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #105894 - 23/05/08 07:53 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Damn, i realy wanted someone who could tell me that there was a easy way to give a startingpoint.


Please anyone? If not messure your barrels an let me make the misstakes, it wont hurt your gun i promise.



450_366 If it were that easy double rifles would be as cheap a 311 Savage shotgun!

As you have found, there are lots of things that you find will not work well, regardless of how simple they seem before you try them! One of the worse ones is trying to regulate liners placed inside old shot barrels, with lop sided bushings! Liners are the absolute worse way of barreling a double rifle on a shotgun action! A double rifle made by an amateur, usually cost more than a good entry level double that shoots properly out of the box, and is ballanced properly to start with. Almost every "HOME-MADE" double rifle I've ever seen was extremely barrel heavy, and handled like a mesquite fense post, even if the work looks good, they usually don't shoot worth crap!

Asking for simple solutions to complex problems is a waste of time, because the answers are not any more simple that the problems are!

However I have seven double rifles of different chamberings! I will measure them all, and post it later, if that is what you want, but I fail to see what good it will do you. because even two doubles chambered the same way, and of the same barrel length will not regulate the same!


................................Good luck with your project!



Home made, barrel heavy, bad handling? Now i dond now what you are refering to
Looking forward to your messurements, and btw its still cheaper than a baikal.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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