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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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Woodbeef
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Re: Why has the 35 Whelen never caught on? [Re: Rule303]
      #159806 - 02/05/10 01:51 AM

The renewed interest in this thread has helped me decide what to rebarrel that shot out 270 Model 70 I have into. Think I'll go with a 1/12 twist.

Edited by Woodbeef (02/05/10 01:53 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: Why has the 35 Whelen never caught on? [Re: Woodbeef]
      #159815 - 02/05/10 05:48 AM

Don't like to keep posting to this subject, but it is a calibre I really like - so.

Woodbeef, good choice - 12" will be fine for any bullet weight, but if you have the opportunity to use longer bullets, 280gr. pointed bullets or even heavier yet, it will probably provide an edge in accuracy.
The 300gr. bullets in .358 are quite 'special' RN or otherwise shaped.
For the heavier bullets, I'd probably go with an improved case and stick with the standard Whelen with 270's or lighter. In this one, a 14" is probably all that's really needed. My 9.3x57 has a 14" twist and puts 270gr. at 2,300fps as well as 286 @ 2,200fps and 300gr. at 2,175fps into 1-MOA groups at 100 meters. This calibre's bore diameter is the same as a .358" groove diameter, just as a .375 has a .366" bore diameter, normally. Only groove depth separates these three, in order.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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9.3x57
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Re: Why has the 35 Whelen never caught on? [Re: DarylS]
      #159816 - 02/05/10 06:03 AM

Woodbeef, can you get Prvi Partizan 285 grain .366/9.3 bullets up there? If so, they have pretty soft jackets and should be easy to size down to .358 for your .35 Whelen.

Those things have to be about the best bullet going for the .35 Whelen, sized down of course.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DarylS
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Re: Why has the 35 Whelen never caught on? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #159856 - 03/05/10 01:06 AM

Hadn't thought of that Rod. Good idea and one I'd certainly do.
I have a set of CH4D .358 swage dies for handgun bullets that would work. back in the late 70's, I used them to actually swage some .375's down to .358 and it worked - also broke the Rock Chucker. Sizing the Privi down to .358 would be a snap with a couple stages in Lee's $25.00 custom sizer dies, say .361" and .357or8.

Sizing (drawing) the bullet down also seems to toughen the jackets slightly, which is a good thing. The 270gr. Speer is another I'd most certainly try. 2,450fps with that one in a standard Whelen would be a good ctg. for North America, I'd expect. or 2,600fps in an Improved case. Of course, drawing or sizing opens the door for a bunch of other bullets - 232gr. Vulcan or Oryx and all the other 285/6gr. bullets too.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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9.3x57
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Re: Why has the 35 Whelen never caught on? [Re: DarylS]
      #159857 - 03/05/10 01:25 AM

Quote:

Sizing (drawing) the bullet down also seems to toughen the jackets slightly, which is a good thing. The 270gr. Speer is another I'd most certainly try.



Yes, and this 270 would be a peach!

Really, the best economical .35 Whelen bullets available for elk & deer IMO are .366's! {...sized down, naturally}.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Mcleish
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Re: Why has the 35 Whelen never caught on? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #163888 - 12/07/10 04:13 PM

Hi

Has anyone had any experience with the new Woodleigh 250 grain Protected Points in their Whelen?

I notice that the BC of these 250 grain projectiles has gone to 0.400 from 0.300 in the traditional round nose weld cores, by my calculation this is worth over 5cm or 2 inches at 300 yards if you begin with a MV of 2562 fps. It also appears to improve the terminal velocity from 1768 fps to 1950 fps for free. This could makes for far more consistant cross gulley shooting on sambar and reds!

Any thoughts?


Regards



McLeish

--------------------
Fallow might be small, but they're tasty

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Gordon
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Re: Why has the 35 Whelen never caught on? [Re: Landy]
      #164312 - 16/07/10 07:34 PM

Living in Alaska, I have two .35 Whelens, A 98 Mauser with a 1-14 twist, and an H&R single shot with a 1-16 twist. I also have a Ruger .358 Win. with a 1-12 twist. The 1-12 twist is what I would build around if I were to start another .35 custom rifle.

Within a good stones throw, there are four of us who hunt with the .35 Whelen. It is effective, things stop happening more quickly than with lesser rounds, and good bullets are available in heavy weights.

I have a copy of Colonel Townsend Whelens book, Why Not Load Your Own, 1957, it lists loads for bullets to 300 grains, and he states, "The twist of rifling should be one turn in 14 inches."

I have had some stability issues with 300 gr. bullets with the 1-14 twist, and would prefer 1-12 for that, but I don't shoot them often. I do shoot 285 grain bullets, as that is what I normally carry hunting. They shoot 1 1/2" at 100 yards regularly off the bench with a Caldwell Lead Sled. You might be able to hold tighter with higher magnification, but I'm using 4X and bifocals. For me that is just fine.

As far as the 1-16 twist, I get my best groups with 225 & 250s with 270s coming pretty close. 280s and 285s start looking like shotgun patterns and the 285 gr spitzers are not stable at 200 yards, as they cut an oblong hole. The 280 gr round nose shoot Ok, but the 250 gr bullet is what that rifle shoots best.

If a tally of hunters in Alaska using the .35 Whelen were taken, I think it would be A very high percentage. Each year, I see hunters on the Kenai Peninsula hunting moose in brown bear territory with .35 Whelens. The same holds true for the interior, hunting caribou. The other animal you see hunters carrying the Whelen is for sitka blacktails. On places like Kodiak, shooting your deer is like Pavlov's bells to the brown bears. There you see some pretty big bore guns.

I guess to sum up my thoughts, the .35 Whelen has caught on, it is geographically popular for caribou, elk, moose, and other game where a bigger bore makes a difference.

--------------------
Gordon Dempsey

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DarylS
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Re: Why has the 35 Whelen never caught on? [Re: Gordon]
      #164335 - 16/07/10 11:07 PM

TKS for that post Gordon. While some ctgs. might seem of little popularity in small game territory, it is obvious what where the larger bullets are needed, they are used. It seems the .35 Whelen is alive and well in Alaska.

There are a few around here, but not many, with the odd .338/06 & .375/06IMP as well. Those who use these rounds for moose and bear, love them.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Gordon
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Re: Why has the 35 Whelen never caught on? [Re: DarylS]
      #164369 - 17/07/10 11:30 AM

I'll give one more place where I think the .35 Whelen excels, and that is for pig hunting in Georgia. (Mother and my sister live there) For a 90# pig going toward the grill, a .243, .30-30, .308, etc. will do fine.

I'm not saying I'll ever run into hog zilla or whatever you want to call them, but if I do, I'll probably be carrying my .35 Whelen because it does not damage as much meat as a .270, and I'm a whole lot more comfortable putting a 285 gr bullet into that trophy hog at any reasonable angle, than I would be anything smaller.

I'm not saying that a guy using using a .243 is under gunned, when hunting the 90# pigs, but am I going to believe that he will pass up a questionable shot with the small gun, on that big trophy hog? Since I have seen more than a few wounded hogs, I think a lot of folks using little fast bullets, would be better served using a bit bigger gun, and better bullets.

As for me, I find the .358 Win., and .35 Whelen suitable for little porkers as well as big ones. When that trophy presents itself, I feel confident that the .35 Whelen will get the job done.

Ok, I'll admit that my training as a child has swayed my selection of cartridges. My grandfather started me shooting a .38-55 Win. High Wall. I like big bullets, and my grandchildren have had the opportunity to shoot my .38-55, and many other over .30 cal rifles. Yes, they are cast bullet, grandchildren loads, but it is what they need to start a life long love affair with shooting. Sure some of the children will buy magnums, but maybe they will find their way back to a .38-55 or .35 Whelen as they find most shots are taken at 100 yards and less.

Hi Daryl,
Thank you. I appreciate your input. Is a 9.3X62 really a .35 Whelen Improved with an odd size bullet?

--------------------
Gordon Dempsey

Edited by Gordon (17/07/10 11:33 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: Why has the 35 Whelen never caught on? [Re: Gordon]
      #164406 - 18/07/10 01:55 AM

The '06 IMP case has the same capacity as a standard 9.3x62.

One chart I've seen, had the shoudler of a 9.3x62 at .450" to .452". That puts it .004 smaller than an '06 IMP, however - I've measured 2 different 9.3x62 rifle's fired brass and they both run .454" at the shoulder, which is the same as an improved '06 case.

There is a shorter neck on the 9.3x62 case thna an improved '06 with a 40 degree shoudler, whereas the 9.3x62 has a 17 degree shoulder, and the 9.3 also has a larger base than the '06. Both of these measurements, larger base by .004" pluss a slightly shorter neck combine to increase it's capacity to the same as an improved '06, whether it is necked to .358", .366" or a .375".

My first 9.3x62 used my old .375/06IMP brass form my first such chambered rifle, by merely necking them down to hold a .366" bullet and fireforming them. They fit perfectly and re-formed without case loss.

The larger bullet diameter of the 9.3 allows slightly higher velocities than the .358 - both virtually on the same case, with the .375 on that case delivering the highest speeds - same bullet weight.

My Oberdorf Mauser 9.3x62 delivered 2,675fps with 270gr. and 2,519fps with 286's from it's 22" bl.

My current .375/06IMP gets 2,740fps with 270's (sounds like H&H factory to me) as well as 2,470fps with 300's using Varget, H4895 and BLC2.

The Whelen .35 IMP should run 2,650fps quite easily with 250's - perhaps 2,700fps with careful loading of the correct powders. One MUST know what one is doing.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Isopeura
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Re: Why has the 35 Whelen never caught on? [Re: DarylS]
      #234578 - 23/08/13 05:22 PM

Let's raise this topic a bit.

I have been a fan of "9mm family of rifle cartridges" for a long time. I've used 9,3x62, .375 H&H and .35 Whelen on moose and I have lately come to like the .35 Whelen the best. I'm from Finland, so here 9,3x62 is one the most popular moose cartridges and .35 Whelen is somewhat anomalous cartridge. Majority of the moose is hunted with .30-caliber guns but the next most popular caliber group is 9,3 mm. I think it should be .35 Whelen.

Personally I like .35 Whelen the best for several reasons. First of all, you have endless supply of brass and you can choose the best brand from large number of manufacturers. Second very important factor is that the most common bullet weights are a tad lighter than in 9,3 mm - this brings .35 Whelen to the general purpose cartridge range. It is therefore more useful than slower bullets.

I personally think that .35 Whelen suffers a lot from the anemic loads and load data of the past. When using modern powders and common sense in loading a bit hotter loads (still safely, of course), this cartridge throws bullets at very respectable speed. My current loads are 225 gr Nosler Accubond, 225 gr Sierra Gameking and 250 Nosler Partition. 225's are at the same velocity range as standard .30-06/180 gr factory loads and 250 gr Partition is at the same velocity range as .308/180 gr factory loads. To me, this means enough punch and very good all around usability.

When it comes to bullets, I prefer .35 over 9,3 because of this reason. 225 and 250 gr .35 bullets are real big game bullets as in 9,3 mm most of the lighter bullets are meant for roe deer size game. This means that in 9,3 mm cartridges one has to use 250-286 gr bullets to get the same terminal performance as in .35 Whelen. In my experience this means a bit less velocity and more challenges in cartridge reloading. By no means I say that 9,3 mm is not good, I'm just saying that .35 Whelen is a bit more generally useful and practical in diverse hunting situations.

My favorite .35 Whelen powder nowadays is Hodgdon Varget. It has proved to be very accurate and it provides very good velocities with sensible pressure levels. It is also easy to reload as one doesn't need to use compressed loads with it. It also performs very well in cold weather which is important in places where I hunt.

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Lix
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Re: Why has the 35 Whelen never caught on? [Re: Isopeura]
      #234587 - 23/08/13 08:49 PM

Very much a fan of the 35W. Mine is a Brno that started life as a 270 and was converted by the previous owner to the Whelan. It may not be pretty but it is a joy to carry, and shoots very well indeed. I have settled on 225gn partition as my general use projectile, pushed by 53gr of AR2208. I have not chronied it but the book says some where around 2500 fps. It is certainly good medicine for camels and pigs.

Alex

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Rell
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Re: Why has the 35 Whelen never caught on? [Re: Lix]
      #234593 - 23/08/13 11:29 PM

Love the cartridge. I have a Ruger#1 takedown in 35 Whelen. Right at 6.75 lbs with a Leupold 1.5-5x20 and seatbelt nylon sling.

It is one of those rifles you love but shot like drak with almost very bullet/load, 2.5 moa. I was given some 225 Sierra boat tail game kings and it became a true 1 inch wonder. It has a 22 inch barrel but I can only get those 225gr loads up to 2450fps. With 250 keeping it above 2250fps is a problem. I'm using RL15, rem cases and Fed GM LR.

It's given good service over the years. A few little moose, a couple of caribou and a black bear. Very effective but I can't say it does anything better then a 30-06 with good 180gr. I think the reason it's still pretty obscure is that the 30-06 does almost everything a 35 Whelen can do and the 06 is easier to shoot, cheaper, and has the edge past 250 yards.

That being said I don't own an 06 but have a 358 Win, two 356Wins, 35 Whelen, two 338 Federals and a 9.3x62. Also a 9.3x74r on order.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.

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CZ_hunter
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Re: Why has the 35 Whelen never caught on? [Re: Woodbeef]
      #234615 - 24/08/13 06:13 AM

I have never had the feeling the 35 Whelen never caught on. I have read many times articles written by recognized personalities (such as C. Boddington etc.) about hunting in US and there have been praises about how the 35 Whelen do well when hunting moose, hogs etc. Actually I think it is well thought out cartridge with long neck that can swallow long bullets such as 275 or 280 grainers with ease. I think it was an intention when the cartridge was once designed - just heavy bullets for reliable penetration generating moderate recoil. From this point I like it better than the 9.3x62 which has a fairly short neck but fits in standard rifle action. The 9.3x62 is here fairly popular and I wonder how much it spread in recent years in US.
Regarding the 358 caliber my baby is definitely the 350 Rigby Magnum which is perfect with 275 - 300 gr bullets.
For me it is a fine combination for heavy game in Alaska and nondangerous game in Africa.


CZ

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CZ

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taw1126
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Re: Why has the 35 Whelen never caught on? [Re: Rell]
      #235034 - 03/09/13 12:52 PM

Quote:

Love the cartridge. I have a Ruger#1 takedown in 35 Whelen.



Rell- you have any photos of that rifle? I'm a sucker for takedowns (my all-around rig is switch-barrel 30-06 & 9.3x62 on a Mauser action) but I don't think I've ever seen a Ruger #1 takedown.

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DarylS
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Re: Why has the 35 Whelen never caught on? [Re: CZ_hunter]
      #235072 - 04/09/13 01:20 AM

One nice aspect of the .35 Whelen, is bullets can be made from .30 MI Carbine brass. A slight length trim and you have a tapered RN 300gr. bullet for the .35 Whelen - or trimming further, nay weight you want.

Since the working pressure of many modern rounds is 64,000 to 65,000psi using standard, ie: .06 brass, there is no reason the .35 Whelen cannot be loaded to it's full potential.

As has been noted before, A-Square's proprietary ctg. the ,.338/06(same case) has a SAAMI standard pressure of 65,000PSI - then check out the .270 Winchester - another at 65,000PSI, both having the same case and case taper. The .338/06 has listed data for 250's running 2,650fps. If the .35 Whelen is loaded to the same pressure, it will exceed the .338/06- physics is at work here. Judicious loading can considerably improve the .35 Whelen's ballistic compared to Remington's anemic factory loadings.

The round deserves to be more popular. The Sierra 250gr. BT seems to be a good one, as-is the 225 BT for longer range shooting.
Barnes has 180 and 200gr. "X"-type bullets. The 180's can be driven to 2,965fps at a listed 51,900PSI and the 200's hit 2,800fps at 52,400psi - quite a distance off the usable maximum.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Rule303
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Re: Why has the 35 Whelen never caught on? [Re: DarylS]
      #235118 - 04/09/13 10:48 PM

Daryl what you have said is certainly food for thought. May have to see what I can achive with my Whelen latter in the year.

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mart
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Re: Why has the 35 Whelen never caught on? [Re: Rule303]
      #235226 - 06/09/13 05:20 PM

Haven't posted in a long time but ran into this discussion about my favorite round. About 12 years ago I picked up a 1941 model 70 that had been converted to left handed. It was chambered in 30-06 and I knew it was going to have to be my long desired 35 Whelen. I had always admired the round and had wanted one since my youth. Now after 12 years I admire it as much or more than ever. Mine was rebored by LaBounty with a 1-14 twist. It shoots any 250 grain bullet like a varmint rifle.

It's hard to say why it hasn't caught on more than it has. Certainly the folks that have them, love them. I have for all these years run 250 grain bullets, usually Partitions, in mine. It has downed three caribou, all very expeditiously. I recently stumbled into a little over 400 of the old Hornady 275 grain bullets. Initial tests with them are looking good. My standard load with the 250's has always been 56 grains of 4320 for a velocity of 2550-2600 fps. I'm anxious to see what the 275's will do.

I like my Whelens so much, both the 35 and 400, that my lefty 375 H&H is up for sale. It never sees any use since I have it bracketed by Whelens. If I can score the right action, I'll build the in between brother, the 38 Whelen or 375 Whelen as it is commonly known. If pressed to choose only one rifle for North America it would be the 35 Whelen.

Mart

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