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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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88MauSporter
.375 member


Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas
.42 Kangaroo cartridge
      #102973 - 20/04/08 07:43 AM

I have just read that there is an older cartridge that was used in Australia called a .42 Kangaroo.
This was usually in a Martini Cadet action sporting rifle. Can any of our friends on that orientation of the world tell me about this? Common cartridge? Wildcat? Rimfire? Centerfire?
Any ballistics ideas? Myth?
Thanks for any info.
'88

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"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

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bigger_is_best
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Reged: 16/01/07
Posts: 82
Loc: Australia
Re: .42 Kangaroo cartridge [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #102985 - 20/04/08 11:42 AM

Never heard of it myself, but I do have a number of cases that have been made up by cutting short the .303 british case. I have a number of different lengths, one lot sourced from the derelect home of an ex small arms fitter from the Lithgow Small Arms Factory, the second lot via a third party from some hundreds of kilometers further west. They are approximately .40 to .43 calibre and loaded with a variety of cast projectiles and shot loads. I have always assumed they were a homegrown modification to suit the Lee-Enfields that were bored out to .410 shotguns, but they could I suppose be the round you are refering to.

For many years the old enfields or the martini was about all that was available for centrefire here, and the .303 british was modified both up and down, with .22 (3 different versions at least), .25, .243, .270, .35, .375 and at least one larger calibre being made up.
The .303-25 was considered THE roo gun for many years, with the bigger calibres being ozie "big game" rounds.

Roo's are not realy dangerous (unless you are VERY unlucky), and are usualy shot in the open at some distance, or over lights at night, or both, so flat shooting small calibres are the go. Skins were the main product, so damage was to be avoided.

How times change, game must be much tougher today, or perhaps we don't "hunt" as well as we did.

Last minute thought, one of the ozzie manufacturers used a kangaroo in the headstamp (Super Cartridge Co., later bought by Winchester to form WW Super), and the Martini has a Kangaroo on the reciever, so maybe that has influenced the name you were given.

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88MauSporter
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Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas
Re: .42 Kangaroo cartridge [Re: bigger_is_best]
      #102987 - 20/04/08 12:46 PM

Sounds reasonable to me!!
I would like to know if anyone has ever heard of this. A rebore from .303 or made from .303 case would be understandable. The cadet action would be ok for this.

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

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CHAPUISARMES
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Reged: 16/01/08
Posts: 2908
Loc: DUBBO, NSW, AUSTRALIA
Re: .42 Kangaroo cartridge [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #102990 - 20/04/08 01:11 PM

Hi 88Mausporter,
I am an 62 year old Aussie who has shot since he was 10 and never ever heard of such a calibre. I also checked a book by the late Cyril Waterworth, called "Cartridges for Rifles, Pistols & Antique" and there is no reference that I could find that even came close. ?? good luck with your research, maybe there is such a cartridge but is so rare only a few exists.

--------------------


"Travel Light, Travel Fast and carry a Big Bore"

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88MauSporter
.375 member


Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas
Re: .42 Kangaroo cartridge [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #102993 - 20/04/08 01:38 PM

Thanks, Chapuisarms.
I know of one rifle that seems to be obvious of former Autstralian cadet martini origin that is sportered, engraved, checkered and said to be a .42 Kangaroo caliber.
It's getting curiouser and curiouser.

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

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bigger_is_best
.275 member


Reged: 16/01/07
Posts: 82
Loc: Australia
Re: .42 Kangaroo cartridge [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #103004 - 20/04/08 08:26 PM

There was apparently an experimental .402 Martini trialed in the 1880's, but these were all full size Martini-henry style rather than the smaller cadet. Seems most were then converted back to
577-450 or .303 as the "small bore" .402 was already becoming obsolete as it was developed.

Would be very interested in pictures, or even chamber cast measurements, but you probably don't have that degree of access to the gun (wish I could add smileys). cadets are fidly to cast anyway, no straight line access.

Many conversions were carried out by a company called "Sportco" in Australia. They generaly added their name and polished many markings off the reciever in the process. All sorts of "odd" chamberings, mine is .22LR, but many .222 rimmed, .22 Hornet, .218 Bee etc exist. Even more wildcats made by individuals.

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3598
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: .42 Kangaroo cartridge [Re: bigger_is_best]
      #103088 - 21/04/08 11:09 PM

The most common chambering for so-called 'kangaroo rifles' was Eley's .450 No.1, which fired a 270gr lead bullet at modest velocity from a 1 1/2-inch long brass case. Some were chambered for the .442 Carbine cartridge firing a 220gr bullet, the case barely an inch long. I have one, a Westley Richards, chambered for the bottle-neck .450 No.1 Carbine.

Occasionally we find kangaroo rifles chambered for the .425 Webley, a straight 1 5/16 case. IMHO this is most likely the .42 Kangaroo referred to in 88Mau's first post.

From memory, there was an article on these cartridges in an Australian Cartridge Collector's Association journal a few years back, if I get time I'll try to locate it.

Hope this helps meantime.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: .42 Kangaroo cartridge [Re: Marrakai]
      #103129 - 22/04/08 05:50 AM

I turned this up after some looking about....it just go`s to show that even if one has never heard of the cartridge, it dosent mean it dosent exist.

7338 .425 Webley 1 5/16", round nose I groove lead, copper primer with waffle pattern, headstamp
P.W & S + .426 +, made by National Arms & Ammunition Co for P. Webley & Son for use in
the Webley Kangaroo rifles, from display with 2 holes in one side of case, varnished $90.00


Also found this in response to a search which suggested the roo rifle pill was in here,didnt find it under 425 though there is some good stuff here,worth a look. It came up under 425 kanga

http://rtbltd.com/arch/cats/1203_06.pdf

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Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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88MauSporter
.375 member


Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas
Re: .42 Kangaroo cartridge [Re: gryphon]
      #103162 - 22/04/08 12:01 PM

Thanks. I hesitated and lost buying the rifle. It was not in the greatest shape, but from the above, I now wish I had.
Thanks again for the wealth of knowledge.

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

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