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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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tecno
.224 member


Reged: 09/11/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Sparreholm, Sweden
DR project cal28 to ?
      #101484 - 04/04/08 07:08 AM

Hi,

I am in progress to start up this new project of making a DR of an old Belgian made cal.28 shotgun.




This is the actual shotgun I am planning to modify. Sorry to say I dont know much about this shotgun and I would be very much interested of any data you might have based on what you see here.

I am looking to find somekind of verification that it can be used to either of following calibers

.22 SavageHiPower
.220 Swift

.224 bullets would be of preference with weights around 70grains


Any ideas out there?

--------------------
Cheers Tecno
Sweden
FinnClassic 512//SOLD
DR O&U 9,3x74R
NEW>>> sbs Cal20 DR 9,3x57R.SE

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450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: tecno]
      #101486 - 04/04/08 07:25 AM

Why not the 6x70r? Never seen that one in a double.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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tecno
.224 member


Reged: 09/11/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Sparreholm, Sweden
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: 450_366]
      #101487 - 04/04/08 07:45 AM

I have just started to look around for other suitable calibers and this is obviously one good alternative what I can understand. My concern is how much pressure this gun can take.

--------------------
Cheers Tecno
Sweden
FinnClassic 512//SOLD
DR O&U 9,3x74R
NEW>>> sbs Cal20 DR 9,3x57R.SE

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Nakihunter
.375 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 588
Loc: New Zealand
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: tecno]
      #101516 - 04/04/08 12:30 PM

I thought that the 220 swift might be too hot for this action.

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3722
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: Nakihunter]
      #101523 - 04/04/08 01:00 PM

Yeah, that and the difficulty of building rimless extractors for a shotgun conversion.

If in doubt, there's always the miniature .450 NE: the .22 Hornet!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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tecno
.224 member


Reged: 09/11/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Sparreholm, Sweden
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: Nakihunter]
      #101554 - 04/04/08 04:24 PM

Hi,

220 Swift might be too hot but I need to verify this, the reason for this caliber is that I have the possibilty to obtain a lot of ammo to a very good price and it is powerful enough to the game I intend to hunt.

Thanks for your input

--------------------
Cheers Tecno
Sweden
FinnClassic 512//SOLD
DR O&U 9,3x74R
NEW>>> sbs Cal20 DR 9,3x57R.SE

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tecno
.224 member


Reged: 09/11/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Sparreholm, Sweden
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: Marrakai]
      #101555 - 04/04/08 04:28 PM

Hi,

Hornet is very nice but not powerful enough, I use this in my combo 7x57R/12 as a full lenght insert barrel for small game.

As regards the extractor, I know it will be tricky but I believe it can be done so 220 Swift's can be one option. I need to get this verified before taken out from the list.

Thanks for your input

--------------------
Cheers Tecno
Sweden
FinnClassic 512//SOLD
DR O&U 9,3x74R
NEW>>> sbs Cal20 DR 9,3x57R.SE

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RSFknives
.300 member


Reged: 02/05/07
Posts: 232
Loc: Sweden
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: tecno]
      #101566 - 04/04/08 11:03 PM

.218 Bee is another nice cartride

where in Sweden do you live?

/Roger

--------------------
life is to short to own an ugly gun.

http://www.knifeguild.se

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tecno
.224 member


Reged: 09/11/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Sparreholm, Sweden
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: RSFknives]
      #101570 - 04/04/08 11:32 PM

Nice OK but still I need more power, in our terms 'klass2'.

I am located in Sparreholm

--------------------
Cheers Tecno
Sweden
FinnClassic 512//SOLD
DR O&U 9,3x74R
NEW>>> sbs Cal20 DR 9,3x57R.SE

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27728
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: tecno]
      #101577 - 05/04/08 12:33 AM

With it's .473" standard size rim diameter and normal pressure in the 63,000PSI range, stay away from the Swift. It's for strong singles like Ruger#1's and bolts only.
: The .22HiPower also has the big rim, but lower pressure is normal, being originally built and loaded in early M99 lever guns.
: I think a .218Bee, sort of a modern rook rifle would do the gun justice. At around 40,000PSI to 44,000PSI you can get up to 3,000fps with 40gr. bullets, with limited breech thrust from the little ctg. The Hornet is another, slightly smaller capacity round that requires a carefully designed reamer. Standard, sloppy old style reamers in hornet don't produce accurate guns. Modern brass is undersize compared to brass of the 1950's where most reamer specs come from. Thus, bases are way oversize, etc. There is also a big difference in brass from different mfgr's.
: Since you're from Sweden, you'll likely use Norma brass - good stuff, but I have no experience with it. I think it is slightly larger than typical US made brass.
: Whatever ctg. you decide on, buy the brass, measure it then order the chambering reamer .001" larger in the head/base, .001" larger at the shoulder, and .0025" larger on the neck than a loaded round's neck diameter. If you leave those specs to the reamer maker, or some gunsmith with some old reamers, you'll probably suffer from sub-standard performance as they'll use the old standards - large and sloppy. Your cases will stretch, keep stretching no matter how you load and fail early.
; I've always liked my Hornets in the CZ's and the older BRNO, however only the CZ's are accurate and they'll shoot as well or better than anyone's .222, .223 or whatever. They have proper sized chambers, much smaller than typical 'old/school' Hornet chambers - CZ knows how to make an accurate Hornet - most other outfits don't. It's all in chamber specs made to match the brass. No stretching and very long case life with 3,300fps+ loads (bolt)(3,000fps in your double) Properly chambered, the brass doesn't even lengthen, which all the oldtime 'gun writers' tell us is the result of the tapered case - bull!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tecno
.224 member


Reged: 09/11/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Sparreholm, Sweden
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: DarylS]
      #101586 - 05/04/08 02:28 AM

That is what I was afraid of that the 220 Swift might be just too much.

I got to have minimum 50grains bullets (Expanding SP or HP) with minimum 800Joule at 100meters to qualify in what we over here call 'class 2'. Hornet is 'class 3' with minimum 39grain bullets and 200Joules at 100m. I belive I cannot get that much out from Hornet, maybe if I go to K Hornet.

Any ideas about K Hornet?

--------------------
Cheers Tecno
Sweden
FinnClassic 512//SOLD
DR O&U 9,3x74R
NEW>>> sbs Cal20 DR 9,3x57R.SE

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450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: tecno]
      #101593 - 05/04/08 04:41 AM

Quote:

I have just started to look around for other suitable calibers and this is obviously one good alternative what I can understand. My concern is how much pressure this gun can take.



The 6x70r was intended as a round suitible to use in barrel insert and rook rifles, and if i remember right its lower in pressure than the 22 Hornet.

And its damn good looking as well.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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tecno
.224 member


Reged: 09/11/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Sparreholm, Sweden
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: 450_366]
      #101737 - 06/04/08 04:22 AM


6x70 has lower pressure than 22Hornet so you remeber this correctly Andreas.

I have today been looking for low pressure calibers and found another interesting caliber that is .303 Savage. This one gives very high energy output in relation to pressure compared to 6x70, about 30% more. How about cases are these still found on the market in US as these are not found here in Sweden. There is a fair amount of bullets to choose from what I can see.

Comments?

--------------------
Cheers Tecno
Sweden
FinnClassic 512//SOLD
DR O&U 9,3x74R
NEW>>> sbs Cal20 DR 9,3x57R.SE

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1980E26
.300 member


Reged: 03/05/05
Posts: 195
Loc: USA
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: tecno]
      #102531 - 15/04/08 11:11 AM

Tecno,

Have you considered a .256 Mannlicher (6.5x53R Dutch). There have been some very fine double rifles made in this caliber. Great penetration with the 6.5mm bullet as it has a very high SD for the heavier weights. Brass is easily formed from .303 British. Dies are no problem. You can shoot light weight bullets all the way up to the 160gr pills. Worth investigation.


Good luck with your project.


Corbin

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tecno
.224 member


Reged: 09/11/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Sparreholm, Sweden
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: 1980E26]
      #102623 - 16/04/08 10:39 PM

Hi Corbin,

Well that is a new caliber to me, cannot find any CIP data on this one as it seems not to be listed among rimmed CIP calibers. Closest I can find is the 6,5x52R, it has PTmax at 2450. Is there any more detailed information to be found on .256 Mannlicher on the net, all I can find it is class1 as we call it here and that might be it has way too high PTmax.

Thanks for the tip

--------------------
Cheers Tecno
Sweden
FinnClassic 512//SOLD
DR O&U 9,3x74R
NEW>>> sbs Cal20 DR 9,3x57R.SE

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1980E26
.300 member


Reged: 03/05/05
Posts: 195
Loc: USA
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: tecno]
      #102657 - 17/04/08 09:36 AM

tecno,

Send me a PM with your email address and I will reply with some links that will give you info on the .256 Mannlicher (6.5x53R). Its a fantastic double rifle caliber! Not too much pressure and rimmed. Cases made from 303 British.


Corbin

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bouldersmith
.375 member


Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 629
Loc: Boulder Colorado
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: 1980E26]
      #102685 - 17/04/08 09:31 PM

Corbin is right....and it makes a damn fine falling block round too!
Steve

--------------------
New website http://www.bertramandco.com

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1980E26
.300 member


Reged: 03/05/05
Posts: 195
Loc: USA
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: bouldersmith]
      #102689 - 17/04/08 10:01 PM

Steve,

How are you liking that 256 falling block? A sweet rig for sure.


Corbin

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bouldersmith
.375 member


Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 629
Loc: Boulder Colorado
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: 1980E26]
      #102690 - 17/04/08 10:17 PM

She shoots and handles as good as she looks! I just LOVE that gun. Its the first real good gun I bought and remains very high on my list.
steve

--------------------
New website http://www.bertramandco.com

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: 1980E26]
      #102699 - 17/04/08 11:17 PM

I recently bought an original Dutch Mannlicher carbine and have formed a few cases from .303 British, drummed up some clips and am about ready to try shooting it. I would be interested in loading data as well. Before I go any further, I need to check the bore diameter, since I suspect it may be .268" and will require larger than normal diameter bullets. (My e-mail address is on my profile)

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27728
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: xausa]
      #102741 - 18/04/08 07:54 AM

Hornady now has .268" 160gr. RN's for sale. Friend of mine shoots them in a large 6.5 he has - Carcano, I think.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: DarylS]
      #102743 - 18/04/08 07:58 AM

Yes, I did a bore cast, and sure enough, the grooves measured .2675-.2680". I have a 6.5X54 MS which uses the larger bullets. I just don't have any on hand right now.

I would still like the loading data, whenever you have time.

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1980E26
.300 member


Reged: 03/05/05
Posts: 195
Loc: USA
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: xausa]
      #103893 - 30/04/08 10:20 AM

As far as load data goes I would recommend IMR 4350 to keep the pressure down and load density up. you might have to go with Carcano bullets (.268") if your bore is worn badly. Some guns will not shoot .264" bullets. I have shot a lot of 4350 in my 6.5 Dutch rifles and it works great. Start with about 32gs and work up to the max in your gun.

I like the 160gr Hornady RN for the Dutch round.

Keep us posted.


Corbin

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Pugwash
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Reged: 24/03/07
Posts: 113
Loc: Scotland,UK
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: 1980E26]
      #103959 - 01/05/08 04:10 AM

How about 5.6x50R.you can load these with 70 grain bullets and they have a decent range.

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tecno
.224 member


Reged: 09/11/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Sparreholm, Sweden
Re: DR project cal28 to ? [Re: Pugwash]
      #107165 - 10/06/08 10:24 PM

Hi,

As I never got to buying this gun (for several reasons) I have now purchased another donor and will start up a new thread with the building of a DR barrel set to this new gun.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=106817&an=0&page=0#Post106817

This is still unkown who made this small cal.20 sbs shotgun.

I will take some new pictures and present my new plans shortly. Please have a look later on and see if you can identify wherefrom this gun originates, any help would be appreciated.

--------------------
Cheers Tecno
Sweden
FinnClassic 512//SOLD
DR O&U 9,3x74R
NEW>>> sbs Cal20 DR 9,3x57R.SE

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