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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game
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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
leopard stuff
      #101194 - 02/04/08 11:33 AM

USA : USA: Hunter gets fines, probation for killing leopard in Africa
on 2008/4/1 13:43:35 (9 reads)

A Pennsylvania big game hunter is facing fines and probation after admitting he lied about the circumstances surrounding his 2003 killing of a leopard in Africa.

Shippensburg resident Mark Clyde Booth was sentenced Friday in federal court in Colorado. He's prohibited from hunting anywhere in the world during his three-year probation period and has to pay fines of $15,000.

He pleaded guilty to violating the Lacey Act, which governs the importation of endangered plants and animals.

The 44-year-old man's felony conviction stems from his shooting the leopard in South Africa, then telling U.S. authorities that the hunt occurred in neighboring Zimbabwe. He also admitted to submitting a bogus form on behalf of another leopard hunter.

A leopard skin marked with Booth's name was sent from South Africa to Denver in 2005 using an import permit that federal investigators later determined was fraudulent.

http://www.timesleader.com/news/ap?articleID=452801

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: leopard stuff [Re: gryphon]
      #101229 - 02/04/08 10:31 PM

Quote:

He's prohibited from hunting anywhere in the world during his three-year probation period and has to pay fines of $15,000.


Just shows you - the US government really does think it is the world police ! Love to see them enforce that one! Ridiculous!

Just to be clear, I'm not commenting on the merits of the case, just the sentence...

Edited by JabaliHunter (02/04/08 10:47 PM)

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rscott
.333 member


Reged: 21/03/08
Posts: 328
Loc: wyo., USA
Re: leopard stuff [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #101230 - 02/04/08 10:41 PM

jabali, you should edit and place the word 'government' between US and really.
as far as the sentence, clearly they are counting on his honor as a gentleman to not hunt anywhere in the world!
i'd also like to know the circumstances on the other end, that is SA.

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
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Re: leopard stuff [Re: rscott]
      #101233 - 02/04/08 10:46 PM

Fair point...

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: leopard stuff [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #101292 - 03/04/08 06:07 AM

The prohibition from hunting anywhere in the world is a condition of probation. The defendant had to promise not to hunt, and the penalty for breaking that promise is revocation of his probation. The federal government obviously has no jurisdiction to revoke his hunting "rights" outside the United States, but if the prosecutor learns that the conditions of probation have been violated, then the defendant can be brought back into court on a petition to revoke his probation. Proving grounds for revocation of probation is much easier than trying such a case as this one, so by pleading guilty and accepting probation the defendant has in effect handed the government virtually everything it needs to lock him up if he violates those terms.

Of course, conviction of a felony means that the defendant is prohibited from possessing firearms, so were he to have been found to have used a firearm to hunt within the jurisdiction of the United States, he could also be found guilty of being a convicted felon in possession of a firearm.

Conditions of probation can take bizarre forms. One defendant I prosecuted in Federal Court for receiving stolen goods was asked by the judge if he was a "church going man". When the reply in the affirmative was made, the judge announced that as a condition of probation the defendant would be required to go to his church with his probation officer and to stand up in front of the congregation and announce "I am a thief. I purchased stolen goods, knowing them to have been stolen."

When his co-defendant was asked if he was a church going man, he decided to say "No." Unfazed, the judge ordered him, as a condition of probation, to have a 4'X 8'sign erected in front of his house, where it was clearly visible from the street and to have painted on it in letters 12" high "I AM A THIEF", and charged the probation officer with the responsibility of seeing that the sign was constructed and that it remained in place for the specified length of time.

Neither of these parties was forced to agree to those terms of probation. They could always refuse probation and be sentenced by the judge. They both chose probation.

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Anonymous
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Re: leopard stuff [Re: gryphon]
      #101308 - 03/04/08 07:18 AM

Very interesting stuff, certainly not a good move to make up papers like that..

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peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: leopard stuff [Re: ]
      #101314 - 03/04/08 07:29 AM

Quote:

Very interesting stuff, certainly not a good move to make up papers like that..



not if they discover that you did it

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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
Re: leopard stuff [Re: peter]
      #101319 - 03/04/08 08:07 AM

GIVE ME A BREAK HE IS THE WORST KIND OF POACHER THERE IS HE IS A GLOBAL POACHER,THEY SHOULD HAVE SIEZED EVERY GUN HE OWNS AND PAID MORE IN FINES.AT THAT LEVEL YOU ARE TO CONDUCT YOURSELF AS A GENTLEMAN AND ABIDE BY THE RULES OF THE CHASE.DONT CONDONE THIS BLATANT DISRESPECT OF YOUR SPORT.HE STOLE FROM YOU

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: leopard stuff [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #101325 - 03/04/08 08:39 AM

Quote:

Just shows you - the US government really does think it is the world police !



I kinda see it the other way, on one hand as the USA knuckling under to world opinion and foreign game laws in an attempt to project "good will" overseas.

Having said that I really appreciate the portions of the Lacey Act that deal with protection of the USA from importation of potentially hazardous species. I wish it had been better enforced in regards to the introduction of East European Meadow Hawkweed and and many other noxious weeds that are right now having devastating effect on many parts of the American West.

I always find these "what he did overseas" things really interesting.

I wonder what the SAP is doing about it, if anything, over there. Were any laws broken in South Africa?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: leopard stuff [Re: 9.3x57]
      #101427 - 03/04/08 08:50 PM

Ok - I don't know anything about the guy and certainly don't approve of poaching. My original post was 'coloured' by an experiance I once had when trying to get a variation on my firearms certificate for a .375H&H. Basically the police were questioning whether I 'needed it' as they felt it too powerful for deer stalking and boar were still unheard of in the UK at the time. There is a requirement on the license for the chief of police to approve land as being 'suitable' for a particular class of weapon before granting a variation to a certificate, and somehow the local firearms officer seemed to think that this jurisdiction also applied overseas to land in Zimbabwe!!

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mikeh416Rigby
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Reged: 24/02/03
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Re: leopard stuff [Re: 9.3x57]
      #101466 - 04/04/08 02:45 AM

Quote:

Quote:



I wonder what the SAP is doing about it, if anything, over there. Were any laws broken in South Africa?



Yes, laws were broken. For starters, the Leopard was shot without having a Leopard permit. I know this, because I know the outfitter involved. He was arrested by federal officials at the Harrisburg, PA Sportsman's Show, and is serving time in a federal prison in Colorado.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39896
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: leopard stuff [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
      #101470 - 04/04/08 03:10 AM

Leopard is a CITES 2 species if I am right(?). As such it probably requires a CITES permit to be exported and imported. So if this guy alledgedly claimed another country as its origin those import requirements would have been violated.

As for overseas hunting well I guess the guy won't be importing any trophies into the US while the 'ban' is in force.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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shakari
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Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: leopard stuff [Re: NitroX]
      #101727 - 06/04/08 02:49 AM

John,

Leopard is CITES 1. I don't know the story behind this one, but it sounds to me like he shot the Leopard in RSA without a permit and then tried to do some kind of dodgy deal where he shipped it from RSA to the US claiming it was shot elsewhere............ which could well be what got him caught as the RSA customs etc inspectors would have latched on fairly quickly because none of the paperwork would have matched up. - Then they probably let it travel and waited for him to try to pick it up at the other end, when they then nailed him for it.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: leopard stuff [Re: shakari]
      #101732 - 06/04/08 03:43 AM

I wonder what the actual deal was...

Reason I say it is that I recall the local farmers where I lived in Natal said there were lot's of leopard in the area. {I never saw one, and never saw tracks, either.} They had mixed views of them, some saying they were OK as they kept the growing bushpig numbers down {bushpig being real havoc-wreakers on sugarcane} and others whose attitude to leopard was similar to what we have here about wolves; they were troublemaking rubbish and wished them all gone.

So...

I wonder if this fellow shot that thing more or less as a favor for somebody who didn't care or just considered it a varmint, or, did he pay big dough to get it??

What is the current leopard population in the SA provinces...growing, stable, or in decline?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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shakari
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Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: leopard stuff [Re: 9.3x57]
      #101746 - 06/04/08 05:41 AM

Leopard populations in most parts of RSA aren't too bad, but they're some of the most educated anywhere in Africa. - Mostly due to the RSA farmers killing them by any and all methods at every opportunity. - Permits are in very short supply as well in omst provinces. KZN for example has 6 permits in total this year..........

You can be pretty sure he paid big money to shoot it and may well not even have known he didn't have a permit.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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Ndumo
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Reged: 21/12/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Namibia
Re: leopard stuff [Re: 9.3x57]
      #102219 - 11/04/08 08:23 PM

Quote:

I wonder what the actual deal was...



I can tell you that an unscrupelous outfitter from RSA has offered me US$ 1500 per leopard to export leopard (shot in RSA) through Namibia as being hunted there. Obviously I sent him to hell.
I suspect the above deal was a simmelar deal.

--------------------
Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd.
karl@huntingsafaris.net
www.huntingsafaris.net
+264 811 285 416

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