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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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AussieHunter
.224 member

Reged: 29/08/07
Posts: 47
Loc: Outback, NSW, Australia

.458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT
#101000 - 31/03/08 09:26 PM

I dont know much at all about big bores, so whats the difference between the win mag and the lott?

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rscott
.333 member

Reged: 21/03/08
Posts: 328
Loc: wyo., USA

Re: .458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT [Re: AussieHunter]
#101010 - 31/03/08 10:55 PM

other than about 150fps velocity gain with a 500 gr, and a lot of hype, not much! scroll down on the forum, there was a previous post on this topic

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WyoJoe
.300 member

Reged: 18/02/04
Posts: 234
Loc: Cheyenne, WY USA

Re: .458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT [Re: rscott]
#101021 - 01/04/08 12:00 AM

The Lott is about .300" longer than the Win Mag.

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There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?"

Martin Luther King, Jr.

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starwars
.275 member

Reged: 03/04/08
Posts: 58
Loc: California

Re: .458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT [Re: AussieHunter]
#101377 - 03/04/08 12:50 PM

The 458 win mag was a crappy round when it first started out. Now it seems they have corrected some of the issues with it. But I would never buy a rifle in that cal. I can't speak to any issues with the lott.

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Richard

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Bill_Cooley
.300 member

Reged: 14/12/06
Posts: 197
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas

Re: .458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT [Re: starwars]
#101388 - 03/04/08 01:20 PM

Think of the Lott as a +P 458.

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JabaliHunter
.400 member

Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England

Re: .458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT [Re: starwars]
#101423 - 03/04/08 08:03 PM

Quote:

The 458 win mag was a crappy round when it first started out. Now it seems they have corrected some of the issues with it. But I would never buy a rifle in that cal. I can't speak to any issues with the lott.

I don't think that is true. Thousands of buffalo and elephant have been shot with it for decades in Africa by game departments. The problem was the old crappy powder and its short shelf life because game departments and gunshops buy in bulk and the stuff sits around. With modern powders, there is really no need for a Lott. Note that virtually everyone who writes about the Lott (Wieland et al.) all talk about loading it down to NE (original .458 Win) velocities because of the horrible recoil...

If I buy a .458 it will be a Win because of the shorter action length, more than adequate power and lower recoil in a lighter rifle. JMHO

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mlg
.275 member

Reged: 19/03/05
Posts: 85
Loc: Queensland, Australia

Re: .458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT [Re: JabaliHunter]
#101430 - 03/04/08 09:07 PM

My understanding is that Jack Lott designed his cartridge to produce the same velocity that the 458 win mag originally claimed to do - namely 2100-2200fps with a 500gn projectile.

This the Lott will do with the greatest of ease - not so the win mag. It struggles.

And if you want to load the Lott up to 2400fps for a 500gn projectile and suffer the recoil consequences, then so be it. And it will do that without a problem, but for me anyway, recoil is considerable at those velocities.

I load mine to 2250fps and find it very tolerable with absolutely no signs of pressure. Just the way I like it!

Give me the Lott any day!

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JabaliHunter
.400 member

Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England

Re: .458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT [Re: mlg]
#101437 - 03/04/08 10:45 PM

Quote:

My understanding is that Jack Lott designed his cartridge to produce the same velocity that the 458 win mag originally claimed to do - namely 2100-2200fps with a 500gn projectile. This the Lott will do with the greatest of ease - not so the win mag. It struggles

Well this issue has been thrashed out extensively before, so I'll just say that I disagree and leave it at that

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=65537&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

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dnovo
.333 member

Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin

Re: .458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT [Re: JabaliHunter]
#101440 - 03/04/08 11:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My understanding is that Jack Lott designed his cartridge to produce the same velocity that the 458 win mag originally claimed to do - namely 2100-2200fps with a 500gn projectile. This the Lott will do with the greatest of ease - not so the win mag. It struggles

Well this issue has been thrashed out extensively before, so I'll just say that I disagree and leave it at that
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=65537&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

It has, and I agree with the last poster. I have fired both rounds out of the same basic rifle and find the recoil of the Winchester round to be more comfortable, and I am generally NOT recoil sensitive. But that shouldn't be a real consideration for a DGR, the question instead being will the Winchester do the job as well as the Lott. If the more modern loading for the Winchester does what it was designed to do in the first place, the Lott would seem to be less desirable from the recoil and cost standpoints. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

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Plains99
.300 member

Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 225
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas, USA

Re: .458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT [Re: dnovo]
#102072 - 10/04/08 12:36 AM

I had both... shot both... let the Lott go and kept the Win Mag. I can control and shoot the Win Mag better. I have no intention of ever hunting elephant or rhino so for a buffalo rifle, I am happy with the Win Mag. Hornady Light Magnum 500 grain loads are very close to the Lott in velocity. I think the Win Mag is a much better round that it is credited for being and it is all the rifle I'll ever need. Ten years ago the Lott was a good idea... now, and with modern powder developments taking place, I believe the Win Mags time has come.

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szihn
.400 member

Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States

Re: .458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT [Re: Plains99]
#102079 - 10/04/08 03:05 AM

I agree with Plains99.
The Win Mag, loaded with modern powders, is going to do everything in the field the Lott will do. It's somewhat like comparing the 30-06 with 150 grain bullets to the 308 with 150 grain bullets. The 06 may eek out a small lead, but on any animal in the world, it makes no difference AL ALL!
The 30-06 will step out in front of the 308 with 180 and heavier bullets.

The Lott might step out in front of the Win is there were 600 grain bullets available, but for 450 to 500 grain bullets, the advantage is so small as to be unnoticed.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: .458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT [Re: szihn]
#102088 - 10/04/08 05:34 AM

Did you all know, that the Lott is actually an old chambering? It's been around since the early 50's, I believe. It was designed by a fellow named Watts.
: If you never intend to shoot a .458 Win.Mag. from the Lott or Watt chamber, they are virtually identical.
: The .450 Watts also used a full length .375H&H case, blown out for .458" bullets.
: The only change Lott made, was to remove the right angle approximately .013" high corner at the end of the chamber, and turn it into an angle so it wouldn't shave jacket material from a bullet launched from a 3/8" short case. Instead, the rounded corner merely bounced the bullet into the leade, then throat.
: Did you also know, that Winchester factory chambered the .450 Watts in some Pre-64 M70's. I had a friend (perhaps deceased now, who had one back in the 70's. I shot it during the winter, 1972/73.
: There is little 'new' under sol.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Schamankungulo
.300 member

Reged: 21/04/07
Posts: 115
Loc: Southeastern USA

Re: .458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT [Re: DarylS]
#102173 - 11/04/08 09:38 AM

I have heard that Watts actually tried to sell the idea to Winchester in the early 50's and they blew him off ..

I have the Lott in an 8.5# CZ , have had both , I prefer the Lott , but do run quite a few win mags thru it ..

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bigmaxx
.375 member

Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.

Re: .458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT [Re: Schamankungulo]
#103179 - 22/04/08 01:38 PM

I have a M77 in .458 lott and shoot some .458 winnies loaded with cheap 405 grain soft points for giggles. good practice too.

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One day at a time...

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Plains99
.300 member

Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 225
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas, USA

Re: .458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT [Re: bigmaxx]
#103427 - 24/04/08 11:49 PM

I ran about 20 405-grain .458's through my rifle last Saturday (loaded by Wisconsin Cartridge). Impact was slightly higher at 50 yards and they were very pleasant rounds. Fun to shoot and I think I'll try them out on some feral hogs down in the Oklahoma hill country. Kind of like a .45-70 on steroids. Good practice hunting for next summer's return to Africa.

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albertan
.333 member

Reged: 13/06/06
Posts: 432
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Re: .458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT [Re: Plains99]
#103897 - 30/04/08 12:24 PM

An acquaintance of mine was out shooting his .470 double. By the time he got around to chonograghing the thing he thought he was Tarzan. Then the truth. 1950 fps out of a 12 pound gun. I get 2150 with a 500 grainer out of my .458 Winchester. The bullets have touched at 100 yards so often that it is not a fluke. I know that a bolt action .458 Winchester does not have the panache of a .470 double, but 2 3\4 pounds and greater accuracy does count for something.

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gwh
.333 member

Reged: 28/01/08
Posts: 277
Loc: Cairns Australia

Re: .458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT [Re: albertan]
#103967 - 01/05/08 10:15 AM

I have just picked up a Ruger RSM in 458 Lott, should compliment my other big bores nicely and fits in in the category of "stopper".

Out of interest, is anyone using 300-350Gr projectiles in their 458 as a medium game/flatter trajectory option? Any opinions on projectiles?

I'll be using 500 Gr Woodleighs for big stuff, but want to use this rifle more than just the odd Buff hunt.

Cheers

--------------------
Hunt hard, shoot straight

"I speak of Africa and golden joys; the joy of wandering through lonely lands; the joy of hunting the mighty and terrible lords of the wilderness, the cunning, the wary and the grim"

Theodore Roosevelt, Khartoum, 1910

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Tatume
.400 member

Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA

Re: .458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT [Re: gwh]
#104018 - 01/05/08 10:03 PM

Quote:

Out of interest, is anyone using 300-350Gr projectiles in their 458 as a medium game/flatter trajectory option? Any opinions on projectiles?

Yes. In fact, the Remington 300 gr hollow point is surprisingly accurate and quite deadly on thin-skinned game. I've used it on wild hogs and deer with excellent results. This is also an inexpensive bullet, and makes for good practice. The Sierra 300 gr HP is also very good.

Although I haven't tried it yet, the Speer 350 gr bullet looks sleeker, and might add some range. This is a very tough bullet, and not as well suited to light game as the Remington and Sierra bullets.

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gwh
.333 member

Reged: 28/01/08
Posts: 277
Loc: Cairns Australia

Re: .458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT [Re: Tatume]
#104065 - 02/05/08 08:25 AM

I load the Sierra 300Gr prohunter in my 45/70 for pigs and it has good results, it would be explosive at Lott velocities, although as you say a good practice round and no pig is going to complain.

The speer 350 would be well worth a look as a good allrounder aswell.

How fast are you pushing them?

--------------------
Hunt hard, shoot straight

"I speak of Africa and golden joys; the joy of wandering through lonely lands; the joy of hunting the mighty and terrible lords of the wilderness, the cunning, the wary and the grim"

Theodore Roosevelt, Khartoum, 1910

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Schamankungulo
.300 member

Reged: 21/04/07
Posts: 115
Loc: Southeastern USA

Re: .458 Win Mag And .458 LOTT [Re: gwh]
#104074 - 02/05/08 10:37 AM

I'm using the 300 and 350 as well as the 405 in mine , along with a bunch of cast boolits from 350-560 grains ..

Woodleighs , until a couple months ago were a pretty good deal , most places were cheaper than other brands , but man they went thru the roof with the solids ...

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