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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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bruised
.224 member

Reged: 03/02/06
Posts: 8
Loc: Western Washington

Shortest practical barrel on a .505
#100503 - 27/03/08 12:48 PM

I'm building a .505 Gibbs bolt gun for use as an Alaskan brown bear back-up gun and I want it to be handy in the brush. Anybody have any experience or recommendations on minimum practical barrel lengths? I know it's overkill for Brownies, but I like the nostalgia of this grand old cartridge, and since it is overkill, I'm not worried about maximum velocity, just trying to avoid excessive muzzle blast.

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xausa
.400 member

Reged: 07/03/07
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Loc: Tennessee, USA

Re: Shortest practical barrel on a .505 [Re: bruised]
#100510 - 27/03/08 02:44 PM

My .505 wildcat has a 20" barrel, and I've never had a moment's trouble with it, nor with duplicating factory performance. In general, large caliber cartridges with heavy bullets are not a problem as far as muzzle blast is concerned. "Over bore capacity" cases are the main culpret in that department.

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chuck375
.333 member

Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO

Re: Shortest practical barrel on a .505 [Re: xausa]
#100782 - 30/03/08 02:14 AM

I guess my question is why build a 505 Gibbs with a short barrel as opposed to another caliber? I understand the romance of the classic African calibers and the desire for a 50 cal for stopping power, but the Gibbs case is cavernous. You're paying a huge price in muzzle blast and recoil for powder that really isn't being used efficiently. I would think a 416 Rem Mag, 458 Lott or 470 Capstick with a 20" barrel would be more efficient than a case that holds in excess of 120g of powder? Is it possible to neck the 375 Ruger up to close to 50 cal? That might be a real nice wildcat. Those huge Gibbs cartridges do make my 375 H&H rounds look like childs play though ... Almost bought my CZ in 505 instead of 375 H&H myself ...

Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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rscott
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Reged: 21/03/08
Posts: 328
Loc: wyo., USA

Re: Shortest practical barrel on a .505 [Re: chuck375]
#100783 - 30/03/08 02:34 AM

in a practical sense, why would you bother building a rifle around a cartridge designed for shooting 6 ton elephant to use on 600 to 1000 lb bears. you're looking at limited choices of bullets, considerable weight disadvantages for a balanced weapon and few available actions that will handle a cartridge that size.

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9.3x57
.450 member

Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States

Re: Shortest practical barrel on a .505 [Re: rscott]
#100787 - 30/03/08 03:08 AM

I have never met a carbine I didn't like {almost}, and I never get too far away from a hacksaw when I get hold of a new rifle...

I doubt you will take me up on this, but my suggestion is to take your unfinished-barreled rifle, rig a front sight and start chopping. Start with a 25 inch tube and play around with it. If you think it is too gangly, lop an inch and do same. If 24 is still too short, cut again, and so-on.

Taking a hike with the rifle and firing a few shots at each length along the way will give you an idea of handling, performance and muzzle blast, and if your increments aren't too much you'll know when to stop before you chop too much.

Sounds like a lot of work, but seriously, on a specialty gun like you are talking about, why not? It is a one-time deal, built for you by you. Who cares what others think so long as you do not see the gun as a resale object. Of course, having said that, one-offs sometimes bring more than they "should".

I say go for it, cavernous case and all. If you like it, have at it. If you decide to go this route, PLEASE write it up, photo the process and post here. I think it would be a fascinating experience and your experience would make for very interesting reading.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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EricD
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Reged: 27/02/04
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Re: Shortest practical barrel on a .505 [Re: bruised]
#100804 - 30/03/08 05:25 AM

Bruised,

What action will you be using?

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO

Re: Shortest practical barrel on a .505 [Re: EricD]
#100836 - 30/03/08 11:19 AM

Everyone's different lol. My 270 started out as Rem 700 BDL with a 22" barrel. I put a 26" Shilen barrel on it and liked it a lot better, even though it was a little long in the timber. I think 24" is perfect for me, but to each his own.

Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Shortest practical barrel on a .505 [Re: chuck375]
#100839 - 30/03/08 11:43 AM

Quote:

Everyone's different lol. My 270 started out as Rem 700 BDL with a 22" barrel. I put a 26" Shilen barrel on it and liked it a lot better, even though it was a little long in the timber. I think 24" is perfect for me, but to each his own.

Chuck

Chuck, your method just doesn't work for me.

I try and try, but I just can't pull hard enough to stretch those tubes...

I guess what I lack in pulling I gain in sawing.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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500grains
.416 member

Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA

Re: Shortest practical barrel on a .505 [Re: 9.3x57]
#100849 - 30/03/08 12:37 PM

Bruised,

Ryan Breeding started off with 26" barrels in several calibers and then cut them back one inch at a time until he found an obvious break point where velocity started to fall off rather quickly. He concluded that 21" was fine for a .505 and 18" was fine for a 458 win mag.

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bruised
.224 member

Reged: 03/02/06
Posts: 8
Loc: Western Washington

Re: Shortest practical barrel on a .505 [Re: 500grains]
#100904 - 31/03/08 03:59 AM

Thank you all for your input. I'll confess that what's driving this project is a desire to firmly establish the large end of things on my rifle rack, plus availability of Montana PH action, more than perceived need. I'll admit that I hunt deer with a .375 H & H Ruger #1, but have a lot of fun working out the loads. If I was limited to using a .30-30 meat rifle, I might lose interest in hunting all together.

For the Gibbs project, I have been thinking 21" would be about right, and do the rest with load development and different powders. John Taylor, in "African Rifles and Cartridges" comments that the .505 has "plenty of power for all emergencies: so much so, in fact, that it would comfortably stand a reduction in barrel length to around 22" (with factory ammo)."

Playing around in my youth with long range revolver shooting Elmer Keith style has convinced me that you don't need a 26" tube for accuracy, and with the right powder it should be able to deliver the goods at 100 yards with reasonable efficiency out of a shorter barrel.

Edited by bruised (31/03/08 11:51 AM)

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO

Re: Shortest practical barrel on a .505 [Re: bruised]
#103519 - 26/04/08 12:16 AM

Actually if you take a 26" barrel and have it shortened and recrowned to 22" should be more accurate. The vibration at the end is less due to both it being shorter and the end of the barrel being thicker.

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Shortest practical barrel on a .505 [Re: chuck375]
#103521 - 26/04/08 12:31 AM

Quote:

Actually if you take a 26" barrel and have it shortened and recrowned to 22" should be more accurate. The vibration at the end is less due to both it being shorter and the end of the barrel being thicker.

Do you really think it's going to make that much difference
in a 505 Gibbs ?

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dnovo
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Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin

Re: Shortest practical barrel on a .505 [Re: 500Nitro]
#103525 - 26/04/08 01:19 AM

Gary Reeder is building me a "Beast" in a 505 with an 18" bbl plus 2" of muzzle break on a Ruger No. 1 action. He has had good succes with this combination in the past. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

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500Nitro
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Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Shortest practical barrel on a .505 [Re: dnovo]
#103526 - 26/04/08 01:23 AM

dnovo

Should be good.

Better have some fast burning powder !!!

I get a huge flame out of the end of my barrel
with whatever I use - however I do tend to use
slow burning powders that fill the case.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Shortest practical barrel on a .505 [Re: 9.3x57]
#103540 - 26/04/08 04:30 AM

Quote:

9.3 quote - If you think it is too gangly, lop an inch and do same. If 24 is still too short, cut again, and so-on.

;
; I have the same trouble, no matter how many times I cut it, it's still too short.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO

Re: Shortest practical barrel on a .505 [Re: DarylS]
#103620 - 27/04/08 12:22 AM

I'm guessing the shortest barrel 505 would be a 505 Gibbs Derringer, with the barrel an 1" shorter than the cartridge lol

Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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bigdog
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Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois

Re: Shortest practical barrel on a .505 [Re: chuck375]
#103656 - 27/04/08 09:35 AM

I have a light bolt action 500 Jeffery, and it has a 16 1/4" barrel on it. It is accurate and shoots fine .

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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SAFARIKID
.275 member

Reged: 08/09/05
Posts: 83
Loc: Savannah,Ga. USA

Re: Shortest practical barrel on a .505 [Re: bigdog]
#104958 - 13/05/08 02:06 PM

I am also a Huge fan of short barrel BIG Bores!I like the 20-21" and had several 500,585 and 600s in that length with No regrets.My latest was a 500 Jeffery with a 16" barrel and am now duplicating it as we "speak" with a 600 OK also with a 16" Short and Fat Tube! Should be fun on both ends!....The 21" will balance well with your Gibbs and I promise you,all the guides in Alaska and PH's in Africa will want to buy it from you when they see and handle it!

--------------------
Lots of BIG Bores!

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mogollon
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Reged: 13/05/08
Posts: 1
Loc: Arizona

Re: Shortest practical barrel on a .505 [Re: SAFARIKID]
#105974 - 24/05/08 08:17 AM

At the NRA Convention I saw that CZ-USA has introduced a Dangerous Game "Truck Gun" with a 20" barrel,available in 375H&H thru 505 Gibbs.

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