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yamoon
.275 member


Reged: 19/06/22
Posts: 79
Loc: Kansas USA
Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: jgrabow]
      #383912 - 04/04/24 02:59 PM

My ugly duckling I got in a trade 35 years ago, it is a 9.3x53 Swiss rimless, The scout scope is mounted with CZ 16mm rings clamped to the barrel dove tail. The rear open sight prevents the scope from moving forward from recoil. It is not very high on my to-do list so I have only fired it a few times. I form the brass from 7.5x55.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/qajhbesfe...zzufqn&dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/wkt5445l8...l6ug29&dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zglk3o9be...qbkx5&dl=0.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6e44wfm2h...b2goye&dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/sylauokt9...bvymxs&dl=0

--------------------
Mike

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lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8752
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: yamoon]
      #383919 - 04/04/24 08:56 PM

was thinking you mean the big old Martini Henry, DoubleD would be your man if he see this











what do have for a die set for the 9,3x53 Swiss ( the version with rim is the 9,3x53R Swiss)
ch4d?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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yamoon
.275 member


Reged: 19/06/22
Posts: 79
Loc: Kansas USA
Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: lancaster]
      #383926 - 05/04/24 01:28 AM

Yes, CH4D

--------------------
Mike

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yamoon
.275 member


Reged: 19/06/22
Posts: 79
Loc: Kansas USA
Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: yamoon]
      #383927 - 05/04/24 01:30 AM

NEI mold, throws .364, using 20 to 1 lead/tin alloy.

--------------------
Mike

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2399
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: lancaster]
      #383928 - 05/04/24 01:31 AM

I hunt with Martini's. These day just for Whitetail from Blinds, a hog when one shows up.

I did not take a deer last year with a rifle. Rifle season was dedicated to my Grand daughter getting her first deer-she did. It was the highlight of my year.



This year it will be all about me.

Deer season in Oklahoma is all archery from October 1 to January15th, inclusive. You can hunt with muzzleloader from October 26 to November 3. You can use a gun during archery season from November 23 to December 8.

This year during Archery Season I will be carrying a 450 Musket No. 2 Sporting Martini into the blind incase a hog shows up. I can shoot hogs with a rifle during archery deer season.



During muzzle loading season, I will be using one of my EIC muskets. I have a Sapper and Miner Carbine I am going try to make shoot.

For Rifle season I am going with.303.

I have a Naughton and Holloway Sporting Martini in .303 British. The barrel was so rotted out, that I had it relined. It is a nice old gun and is a classic Martini sporter. Based on markings I do not think this is a retail gun, rather I think it is gun built by up Naughton and Holloway. I haven't shot it since it got back from lining



The second .303 is not a .303 British, but is marked "for .303 Ammunition". It is a retail gun made for Rawbone of Capetown, I believe by Greener.

Firing .303 British in this chamber blew the heads right of the cases. When I slugged the bore it was .303 groove. I believe this gun may be chambered for Westley Richards .303 Special. How ever on that cartridge I need to do more research. The rifle does shoot quite well with Hawk 180 gr. .304 bullets. This gun is my first choice for deer this year.



In 2002 I took two Kudu with a ZAR Westley Richards 577/450 rifle. I also took one Springbok and one Guinea foul with a small Hollis sporting Martini in 218 Mashburn Bee on that same trip.

This same Hollis .218 Mashburn Bee and and a sporterized cadet in 22 K-hornet were used in Montana to shot gophers, rock chucks and badgers from 2001 to 2002.

From 2008 until 2018 I hunted gophers in Montana with BSA Francotte 1215's Martini's converted to 17HM2 and 17 HMR. Also taken were a rock chucks and badgers. These larger animals were always taken with eye, nostril or ear hole shots only. The precision of these cartridges in these Martini mad these type shots simple.

I do have a BSA Francotte Martini and a Westley Richards Sherwood in 17 Hornady Hornet that was used one season only hunting varmints-devastating on gophers and good killers on Rock chucks.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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85lc
.375 member


Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 922
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: DoubleD]
      #383929 - 05/04/24 02:08 AM

Mike & Doug,

Those are very interesting rifles.

Mike, I have seen a few Martini target rifles for sale in 7,5x55 & with its DST, though that they would be an interesting rifle. I like the scope setup on your. Also like the caliber

Doug, Very nice you took your GD hunting. Way to pass on the heritage. I like your English (&SA) Martini sporting rifles. For me, they are so much more attractive than the military martini and in traditional .303, should be great deer & hog rifles.

--------------------
RB

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yamoon
.275 member


Reged: 19/06/22
Posts: 79
Loc: Kansas USA
Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: 85lc]
      #383930 - 05/04/24 02:31 AM

I have 6 more Martinis, 4 are German & Austrian schuetzen rifles and 2 are 22s. One of the 22s is very small.

--------------------
Mike

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lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8752
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: yamoon]
      #383935 - 05/04/24 05:50 AM

I would like to see the Martini case extrator for the rimless case.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3988
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: lancaster]
      #383939 - 05/04/24 07:34 AM

From u-tube Lancaster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oaf5ugMw7KM

I though though that I'd seen somewhere the extractor had an oval shape to it where the hinge pin went, tipping it as it started the ejection process?
If any one can show you this it will be DD

Nice buck shot by your GD DD - no wonder you're proud!

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yamoon
.275 member


Reged: 19/06/22
Posts: 79
Loc: Kansas USA
Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: 93x64mm]
      #383942 - 05/04/24 09:56 AM

Quote:

From u-tube Lancaster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oaf5ugMw7KM

I though though that I'd seen somewhere the extractor had an oval shape to it where the hinge pin went, tipping it as it started the ejection process?
If any one can show you this it will be DD

Nice buck shot by your GD DD - no wonder you're proud!



Yes that is how it works, I will try to get some photos. The last time I had it apart there were not enough curse words in my vocabulary to explain the problems I had reassembling it. I am use to the German easy assemble Martinis. Another point, Martini has become a generic name for tipping block actions, the main improvement Martini made to the Peabody was installing a coil spring powered striker. Many “Martinis “ have an internal hammer, powered by a v spring, striking a firing pin.

--------------------
Mike

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8752
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Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: 93x64mm]
      #383944 - 05/04/24 04:43 PM

Quote:

From u-tube Lancaster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oaf5ugMw7KM

I though though that I'd seen somewhere the extractor had an oval shape to it where the hinge pin went, tipping it as it started the ejection process?
If any one can show you this it will be DD

Nice buck shot by your GD DD - no wonder you're proud!



thanks, this is ingenious simple and brutal effectiv.
much better than the rimless extractors on a break action gun.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2399
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: lancaster]
      #383952 - 05/04/24 11:01 PM

There are several versions of that one legged Martini extractor. They work well on fully resized cases, marginally on fired cases.

The Martini has poor extraction qualities to start with and needs all the help it can get and two legs are better than one.

Here is a rimless extractor from a Turkish Martini Peabody modified to fire the 7.65 x 53 Mauser.



Note the radius in the relief cut. It is radiused down so as the extractor rotates it doesn't bear on the cartridge and push it off the extractor.



From this angle this looks like a rimmed extractor. This is cut like this to allow the extractor to go up in the extractor groove and be able push against the rim, (Even a rimless cartridge has a rim.)



This extractor has a sliding piece pushed by a small spring held in place by tongue in groove of extractor arms and plate and retained by a small screw in the side. That divot on the side is the slotted screw head,

Hoffman built one similar as did Bob Snapp. This extractor does work. Doesn't increase leverage, but working the lever vigorously will extract cartridges. That is thr trick to good extraction in the Martini, snap the lever open-with vigor!

After the Turkish Martini Peabody's were modified for the rimless 7.65 x 53 Mauser and sent out in the field, they had to be returned for further repair for cracking of the receiver over the hinge pin hole. Attaching a reinforcing plate over that hole solved the problem.

Edited by DoubleD (05/04/24 11:05 PM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: DoubleD]
      #383953 - 06/04/24 04:28 AM

Saw one once, on a Cadet action, made for rimless .222. The normal rimmed extractor had a small spring loaded blade in the middle/bottom of the regular extractor's surface.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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yamoon
.275 member


Reged: 19/06/22
Posts: 79
Loc: Kansas USA
Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: DarylS]
      #383959 - 06/04/24 01:54 PM

My ugly duckling has a single leg on the left, if it wasn’t so hard to reassemble, I would take it apart and investigate it. Lowering the lever normally extracts the empty, lowering it smartly ejects the case clear of the action. I think I’ll take it to the range next trip. I do like scout scopes on single shots used for hunting, they load much easier and faster.

--------------------
Mike

Edited by yamoon (06/04/24 02:00 PM)

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fjrdoc
.300 member


Reged: 20/05/22
Posts: 178
Loc: United States
Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: yamoon]
      #383965 - 06/04/24 09:02 PM

I don't hunt with one but I do enjoy drinking one or 2 at the end of a hunt.

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2399
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: DarylS]
      #383967 - 06/04/24 11:58 PM

Quote:

Saw one once, on a Cadet action, made for rimless .222. The normal rimmed extractor had a small spring loaded blade in the middle/bottom of the regular extractor's surface.



Sounds like either a Hoffman or Snapp rimless extractor Daryl.

Both are about the same slightly different-cosmetically. Both use the design concept of the Turkish Extractor above. The center piece which is the extractor is spring loaded.

It's a good design for what is supposed to do. It is the rest of the of the design that is weak-no leverage/cam to break the cartridge loose initially.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: DoubleD]
      #383973 - 07/04/24 01:07 AM

imho, so good it ever be I would never trust my life on a spring loaded blade working as an rimless case extractor

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: lancaster]
      #383974 - 07/04/24 02:55 AM

Spot-on DD. The harder you drop the lever, the more positive the extraction.
Lancaster, it does weaken the entire extractor blade.

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yamoon
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Reged: 19/06/22
Posts: 79
Loc: Kansas USA
Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: DarylS]
      #383979 - 07/04/24 07:44 AM

I’ve often wondered why this martini was chambered for a rimless case when a rimmed one was available. I would hazard a guess that rimless ammo was readily available and cheaper than the rimmed version.

--------------------
Mike

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lancaster
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Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: yamoon]
      #383990 - 07/04/24 06:14 PM

dont forget that Friedrich von Martini was a swiss and target shooting with the military cartridge is the most important thing at all in switzerland. he startet with the american peabody and improve it to the hammerless peabody-martini.his factory was allways making standschützen target rifles for the rimless military cartridge because the state sell the ammo cheap to swiss shooter to support military style target shooting.

swiss "Standschützen" rifle (Standschütze means ony target shooter here)

it was only natural that Martini also start making stalking rifles for the military cartridge and its descendants like 9,3x53 Swiss but many of this swiss rifle show they were made for dual use - target shooting and hunting.


peabody action




martini action



an interesting pic showing the peabody and the martini extractor side by side



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Posts: 8752
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Re: Anybody hunting with a Martini [Re: lancaster]
      #383991 - 07/04/24 06:37 PM

yamoon, you probably never see the 9,3x53 in a catalog. this is an early post war swiss ammo catalog of the Muntionsfabrik Altdorf. The 9,3x53 is called there Model 25 what could be 1925.

13,1 gramm bullet making 695 m/sec, more or less the same like the old and beloved 9,3x72R















--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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