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buckstix
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Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ??
      #366052 - 29/05/22 07:27 AM

Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet - what is it?

Hello All,

I have a couple dozen BSA cadet rifles, but this one is a first. Can't find any info about it.

Its not a 1906 model because those are all n 22 caliber. Also, this one has a sliding safety on the bolt handle and a somewhat similar but different rear sight.

No proof marks - no caliber mark - only a X01 stamped at the back rear of the left side of the receiver and on the stock. There is a P. Patent also on the left side of the receiver and a patent number on the rear sight. It has the Standard BSA address with a 1907 date, and the BSA logo on the barrel and remnants of the trade mark stamp on the stock. Neat folding front site protector / hood.

any one have any idea?



--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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DarylS
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: buckstix]
      #366053 - 29/05/22 08:25 AM

1st one I have ever seen - nice find!
REALLY good pictures, buckstix, especially of the double lug lockup!


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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93x64mm
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: DarylS]
      #366055 - 29/05/22 11:47 AM

Wow..........that certainly is like rocking horse poo!
Never seen that before!
Amazing find Buckstix.
Will be a mission to get this one to work, the cadet has a reputation to be a problem child to shoot.


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DoubleD
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: 93x64mm]
      #366057 - 29/05/22 11:56 AM

Knibbs in his book The Golden the Century a history of BSA guns has a picture of this action in the chapter on the No 1 and No. 2 action pocket model. It is is only described as different style of bolt and trigger mechanism in the Pocket models.

The number 1 and No. 2 were the same thing just with different fitments for sights. There is mention of the these guns being available in 297/230 Morris.

Knibbs book is poorly edited and is difficult to extract information from. I would not be surprised if the book has information on the OP rifle, but it would require reading page by page to find it, if it is there.

There is no BSA guns listed using the X prefix for serial number.

If you read Knibbs cover to cover you might find reference to activities in 1907, A search of BSA patents might disclose something also.

I also went through the BSA catalogs and could not find anything this gun.

This website seems to indicate this is a Model 2. https://www.rifleman.org.uk/BSA_Model_2.html

That website is you best resource for research on your rifle.

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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buckstix
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: DarylS]
      #366062 - 29/05/22 02:13 PM

Quote:

1st one I have ever seen - nice find!
REALLY good pictures, buckstix, especially of the double lug lockup!



Hello Daryl_S,
Thanks for the reply.

Quote:

Wow..........that certainly is like rocking horse poo!
Never seen that before!
Amazing find Buckstix.
Will be a mission to get this one to work, the cadet has a reputation to be a problem child to shoot.


Hello 93x64mm,
Thanks for the reply.

No problems shooting this one. Works great and its accurate too.

Quote:

Knibbs in his book The Golden the Century a history of BSA guns has a picture of this action in the chapter on the No 1 and No. 2 action pocket model. It is is only described as different style of bolt and trigger mechanism in the Pocket models.

The number 1 and No. 2 were the same thing just with different fitments for sights. There is mention of the these guns being available in 297/230 Morris.

Knibbs book is poorly edited and is difficult to extract information from. I would not be surprised if the book has information on the OP rifle, but it would require reading page by page to find it, if it is there.

There is no BSA guns listed using the X prefix for serial number.

If you read Knibbs cover to cover you might find reference to activities in 1907, A search of BSA patents might disclose something also.

I also went through the BSA catalogs and could not find anything this gun.

This website seems to indicate this is a Model 2. https://www.rifleman.org.uk/BSA_Model_2.html

That website is you best resource for research on your rifle.


Hello DoubleD,
Thanks for the reply.

I've searched that website and other references and catalogs (including patents) and cannot find anything that shows an action with exposed open dual locking lugs, or a safety on the bolt handle. It has been suggested that the lack of proofs and other typical markings, and the "X" serial number, may suggest a prototype experimental pattern rifle. I will continue searching. It does function and shoot great!

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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Parabola
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: buckstix]
      #366071 - 29/05/22 11:20 PM

Buck ,

I thought at first glance that It might be a variation of the BSA light sporting rifle they made in .300 Extra Long (i.e. Sherwood) and .32-40.

That however used a Lee Enfield bolt in a simplified tubular receiver as did their .410” single shot.

Yours has a front locking bolt.

X01 appears to be someone’s (not necessarily BSA’s) prototype serial.

My guess is that the inventor of the action started with a .22 BSA War Office Pattern barrel and bored it out to take the .310 Cadet cartridge, then fitted it to his prototype action and modified the stock to fit.

I do not recognise the action and the P(ending) Patent mark does not necessarily mean that it was ever Patented.

It might have been made at Lithgow in Australia as the .310 Cadet was popular there.

The Australian government started producing FMJ .310 ammunition for Home Guard combat use when Japanese invasion seemed imminent.


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DarylS
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: Parabola]
      #366076 - 30/05/22 02:14 AM

Small point.
.32/20 would have been the ctg., along with the .300 Extra Long (ie: Sherwood).

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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buckstix
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: Parabola]
      #366078 - 30/05/22 03:22 AM

Quote:

Buck ,

I thought at first glance that It might be a variation of the BSA light sporting rifle they made in .300 Extra Long (i.e. Sherwood) and .32-40.

That however used a Lee Enfield bolt in a simplified tubular receiver as did their .410” single shot.

Yours has a front locking bolt.

X01 appears to be someone’s (not necessarily BSA’s) prototype serial.

My guess is that the inventor of the action started with a .22 BSA War Office Pattern barrel and bored it out to take the .310 Cadet cartridge, then fitted it to his prototype action and modified the stock to fit.

I do not recognize the action and the P(ending) Patent mark does not necessarily mean that it was ever Patented.

It might have been made at Lithgow in Australia as the .310 Cadet was popular there.

The Australian government started producing FMJ .310 ammunition for Home Guard combat use when Japanese invasion seemed imminent.


Hello Parabola,
Thanks for the reply.

The barrel does not appear to be bored out as the dimensions are different from those used for 22 caliber rifles. However, perhaps the stock was made from another because the BSA logo (and only the logo) appears to have been sanded. I did notice, however, that all the catalog listings I have found for other miniature & sporting rifles have the BSA logo on the right side of the stock. This one has the BSA logo on the left side.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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Hunter4752001
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: buckstix]
      #366085 - 30/05/22 10:52 AM

If British, then I thought they required all rifles to be proof tested. Have you had the barrel and action out of the stock to see if there are any proof, or other markings, on the bottom of the barrel or action?

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buckstix
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: Hunter4752001]
      #366086 - 30/05/22 11:33 AM

Quote:

If British, then I thought they required all rifles to be proof tested. Have you had the barrel and action out of the stock to see if there are any proof, or other markings, on the bottom of the barrel or action?


Hello Hunter4752001,
Thanks for the reply.

Yes, took it out of the stock. Not a single mark anywhere to be found.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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Viking338
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: buckstix]
      #366087 - 30/05/22 02:36 PM

Hey Mate, nice find. I tell you something though, I do like that safety on the bolt like that. Surprised it’s not a more popular fitment on other makes and models. Does it only block the firing pin maybe and not the trigger? I guess it my be more complicated and or costly to make.
Regards
Steve


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buckstix
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: Viking338]
      #366090 - 30/05/22 09:20 PM

Quote:

Hey Mate, nice find. I tell you something though, I do like that safety on the bolt like that. Surprised it’s not a more popular fitment on other makes and models. Does it only block the firing pin maybe and not the trigger? I guess it my be more complicated and or costly to make.
Regards
Steve


Hello Viking338,
Thanks for the reply.

The safety engages a small hole in the firing pin to block its forward travel. Looks more European than British.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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Viking338
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: buckstix]
      #366122 - 31/05/22 04:46 PM

Very interesting, I do like the idea

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Parabola
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: DarylS]
      #366152 - 01/06/22 02:40 AM



Daryl S,

Nope, they were made in .32-40 as well as .300 Extra Long.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: Parabola]
      #366157 - 01/06/22 02:58 AM

Is it a single shot or does it have a magazine?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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buckstix
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: NitroX]
      #366182 - 01/06/22 08:37 AM

Quote:

Is it a single shot or does it have a magazine?


Hello NitroX,
Thanks for the reply.

Its a solid bottom single shot with a spring loaded feed ramp that gets pushed down as the bolt closes

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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Parabola
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: NitroX]
      #366203 - 02/06/22 03:31 AM

NitroX

If you were asking about the .300 and .32/40 rifles, the 2 .300 Extra Long rifles I have seen both had integral 5(?) round magazines.

I have not seen a .32/40 and the catalogue entry does not tell us.

Parabola


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DarylS
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: Parabola]
      #366204 - 02/06/22 03:43 AM

I am sure the .32/40 was a misprint, meaning .32/20.

The .32/40 has a 2.13" long ctg. case with a 2.6" overall loaded length.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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buckstix
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: DarylS]
      #366207 - 02/06/22 05:16 AM

Quote:

I am sure the .32/40 was a misprint, meaning .32/20.

The .32/40 has a 2.13" long ctg. case with a 2.6" overall loaded length.





The 32-40 is not a miss-print ... BSA Medium Sporting rifles were made in that caliber with a long action and a bolt similar to that of a Lee Enfield.


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DarylS
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: Parabola]
      #366211 - 02/06/22 07:57 AM

Quote:



Daryl S,

Nope, they were made in .32-40 as well as .300 Extra Long.




LOL - didn't look at the picture, nor the type.

Most likely will happen again?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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HuviusModerator
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: DarylS]
      #366213 - 02/06/22 09:52 AM

I own two of the 410 shotguns.
Thank you, Parabola for posting the catalog pages.
They really do take down with a coin to loosen the forend screw! I didn't know that!

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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buckstix
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: Huvius]
      #366215 - 02/06/22 12:34 PM

Hello all,

Well, I finally received a response from a fellow on a different forum. He sent me this reference link.

https://www.rifleman.org.uk/War_Office_Pattern_Miniature_Rifle.html#Experimental_rifles

"A notable continuation of the the B.S.A. company's work on the War Office Miniature type rifle involved experimentation with a larger calibre capable action."

The last rifle shown at the bottom of that link looks like a "later" experimental version of my rifle. It has a 1908 barrel date and it has a patent number. Mine has an earlier 1907 barrel date and has a "P.Patent" marking. (pending patent)

That rifle has many similar features to my rifle.

Similar features include; center fire single shot action, similar barrel mounted 1905 rear site (with patent reference to my site), similar folding hood front site, same open exposed forward locking lugs, similar bolt handle mounted sliding safety, similar single-loading sprung 'raceway' slightly below the bore-line, and a similar action body designed to afford the mounting of an aperture sight at the rear of the receiver.

research for additional information will continue.


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93x64mm
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: buckstix]
      #366223 - 02/06/22 05:00 PM

Quote:

Hello all,

Well, I finally received a response from a fellow on a different forum. He sent me this reference link.

https://www.rifleman.org.uk/War_Office_Pattern_Miniature_Rifle.html#Experimental_rifles

"A notable continuation of the the B.S.A. company's work on the War Office Miniature type rifle involved experimentation with a larger calibre capable action."

The last rifle shown at the bottom of that link looks like a "later" experimental version of my rifle. It has a 1908 barrel date and it has a patent number. Mine has an earlier 1907 barrel date and has a "P.Patent" marking. (pending patent)

That rifle has many similar features to my rifle.

Similar features include; center fire single shot action, similar barrel mounted 1905 rear site (with patent reference to my site), similar folding hood front site, same open exposed forward locking lugs, similar bolt handle mounted sliding safety, similar single-loading sprung 'raceway' slightly below the bore-line, and a similar action body designed to afford the mounting of an aperture sight at the rear of the receiver.

research for additional information will continue.




Buckstix
That article actually refers to 'your' rifle
Quote
We have been made aware of another similar B.S.A. made rifle, apparently in .310" Cadet calibre, that carries the serial number "X01" on both the action and the left side of the butt-stock beside the BSA piled rifles cartouche.

This is an earlier example, with patent pending,
and with the barrel being dated 1907.

The rifle has possibly been later 'sporterised', as the fore-end finishes where the middle barrel-band would probably have been, and a bedding screw with a sling-swivel has been fitted about an inch-and-a-half back from that point.

The fore-sight is identical apart from the spring-loaded hood locking button not being present.

This earlier rifle also has a gas vent on the left-hand-side just behind the receiver ring. This vent is not present on the NFC's rifle.


The arrangement of the safety varies between the two rifles, in that this earlier model has the slide catch at the rear of the bolt-handle rather than on top. The patent for this 'in handle' system is approximated in patent no. 13,170 catalogued for 1908, although the application shows as being on 13th, November 1907.
Quote


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buckstix
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: 93x64mm]
      #366225 - 02/06/22 07:41 PM

Quote:


Buckstix
That article actually refers to 'your' rifle




Hello 93x64mm,
Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I gave them permission to reference my rifle. They have added my photo and sometime in the future they will be adding more of my photos. They will also contact various Royal Armories and Gun Museums throughout the Britain Commonwealth to try to determine if there are any existing records pertaining to my rifle, and how it came to leave British ownership 115 years later and come to a private sale here in the U.S. That provenance would be cool.

As noted in their updated reference to my rifle, I disagreed with the opinion about the stock being later 'sporterised' because the Patina of the wood and metal appear original and un-altered. There is absolutely no sign of any metal barrel band or a metal barrel band nose cap having ever been present. Also, there is no forward 'bedding screw', only a forward sling swivel that matches the one on the rear. It is possible that the original stock blank may have been re-purposed from another during development of this prototype rifle. This would account for the thinning of the Trade Mark logo and the addition of the 'XO1' stamping - which remains crisp and un-sanded.

I knew this rifle was original and rare, but never suspected it may be the "first" prototype in the development of the War Office Miniature Rifle. The discovered information would not have been possible without the help of Forum members around the World.

I will be posting shooting result targets soon.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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Parabola
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Re: Never before seen - bolt action single shot BSA 310 Cadet ?? [Re: Huvius]
      #366235 - 03/06/22 12:06 AM



Huvius, here is the full catalogue page for the .410 models.

Many years ago, flighting pigeons into a wood in Warwickshire, I used one with W-W 2 1/2” cartridges and brought down 7 birds with 9 shots. My best ever with feathered game.

Parabola


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