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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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Conor_90
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28 Gauge Combo Guns
      #358424 - 22/11/21 10:18 AM

Curious if anyone knows of a combo gun in an intermediate caliber with a 28 gauge barrel?

I’ve seen offerings by FAIR and Merkel with 20 gauge barrels and they look very trim; is it possible to go even trimmer?

Edited by Conor_90 (23/11/21 06:16 PM)

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DarylS
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: Conor_90]
      #358425 - 22/11/21 10:29 AM

Haven't heard of one, but sounds interesting.

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"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: DarylS]
      #358426 - 22/11/21 11:07 AM

I do have a FAIR SxS 28 gauge I used this fall on upland..for the money, nice little gun..was not aware they made a combo...

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DarylS
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: Ripp]
      #358428 - 22/11/21 01:50 PM

Now THAT looks like a nice, sporty upland gun.

https://www.simmonssportinggoods.com/fair-iside-sxs-28ga-28-barrel-shotgun/

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Marrakai
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: DarylS]
      #358429 - 22/11/21 05:59 PM

Only problem, one of its triggers has fallen off...!

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: Marrakai]
      #358432 - 22/11/21 07:08 PM

I don't see the point in a 28 gauge combination. Maybe others don't either? So a reason they don't exist?

I think some of the multi barreled things four or five barrels have a sub 12 gauge barrel.

Lots of combinations have 16 gauge barrels.

Probably the sub 12 g use is to keep the combination lighter and trimmer in cross section with the extra barrel(s).

Never seen a 28 gauge shotgun myself.

Why not go for a .410 shotgun combination?

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Ahmed577
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: NitroX]
      #358439 - 23/11/21 12:23 AM

John are you saying you have never seen a 28 bore shotgun.

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bwanabobftw
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: Ahmed577]
      #358441 - 23/11/21 12:56 AM

I have several 28 gauge shotguns. A little drilling with 28 gauge tubes on top with 6.5x57R for a rifle on the bottom would be a trim and very handy gun. I have found the 28 gauge to be a very good shotgun choice for most of my wing shooting. I have used it on pheasant, quail and dove. I even took one to Africa and shot a spur wing goose with it (It did take 2 shots on the goose).
Robert

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kuduae
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #358443 - 23/11/21 01:38 AM

Sorry, but you are bit late, by about 90 years. Here is a page from a 1930 catalog, showing small bore over – under combinations. These were available then in 24, 28 and 32 = .410 gauge in the shot barrel and 5.6x35R Vierling = .22 Winchester cf, 6.5x52R = .25-35 and some forgotten other German smallbores. Sorry, but I have never seen such a thing during the last 55 years. Today, the Ferlach gunmakers will be happy to build such a gun on order. But if you have to ask for the price, you can't afford it anyhow.

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DarylS
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: kuduae]
      #358444 - 23/11/21 03:10 AM

That's quite interesting, kuduae.

My "late" hunting buddy Brad had a Ruger OU in 28 bore. I shot a bit of trap with it and it really hammered the birds.
Another friend uses a Turkish OU in 28 bore for his grouse gun.
I really don't see much "use" for a combo though, imho, unless it was with perhaps a 6.5 of some sort usable for moose.

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"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: NitroX]
      #358445 - 23/11/21 03:12 AM

Quote:

I don't see the point in a 28 gauge combination. Maybe others don't either? So a reason they don't exist?

I think some of the multi barreled things four or five barrels have a sub 12 gauge barrel.

Lots of combinations have 16 gauge barrels.

Probably the sub 12 g use is to keep the combination lighter and trimmer in cross section with the extra barrel(s).

Never seen a 28 gauge shotgun myself.

Why not go for a .410 shotgun combination?



I have been reading this post with great interest as I really enjoy shotguns'. Have several SxS's ... with my favorite being a FOX in 16 ...

When I read the comment of the .410 I remembered reading the 28 patterned better per what I had experienced and what I had read.. found this article which seems to back that up.. Its a great guage for early season birds.. would not use it now on pheasants as they are all feathered up and a bit wild this time of year..

5 Reasons To Love The 28 Gauge..

This little gun packs a big punch on upland birds and even waterfowl—and it’s a dream to shoot

BY MICHAEL DICKERSON | PUBLISHED FEB 14, 2020

https://www.outdoorlife.com/story/hunting/reasons-to-love-the-28-gauge/

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DarylS
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: Ripp]
      #358450 - 23/11/21 04:53 AM

Good article, Ripp.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: DarylS]
      #358456 - 23/11/21 06:42 AM

Quote:

Now THAT looks like a nice, sporty upland gun.

https://www.simmonssportinggoods.com/fair-iside-sxs-28ga-28-barrel-shotgun/



It actually feels nice in the hand... light and lively..especially for the price..

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Conor_90
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: Ripp]
      #358465 - 23/11/21 08:21 AM

28 gauge receiver size would be the advantage and possibly limiting factor in terms of the rifle caliber

I can’t see myself ever shooting a duck or goose while still hunting, or using buckshot or slugs when a rifle is available for the style of hunting we do here.

The shotgun barrel would see more use as a swatter of grouse in trees and on overgrown roads with the occasional
shot at a snowshoe hare. For these purposes the 28 or 20 gauge is optimal. 410 pales in comparison to 28 for similarly sized guns

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DarylS
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: Conor_90]
      #358467 - 23/11/21 08:37 AM

Agree, Conor. The 28 bore is MUCH superior to the .410 for grouse, bunnies or anything, actually.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Conor_90
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: DarylS]
      #358480 - 23/11/21 01:51 PM

Some nice huglu 28 gauge coach guns in English box lock department store gun style at Prophet River

A good argument for 20 gauge is ammo availability but I can’t see the shotgun barrel getting enough use for that to be a real concern

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Marrakai
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: Conor_90]
      #358482 - 23/11/21 04:49 PM

Nothing to add to the combo-gun discussion, but after a lifetime of shooting I recently acquired my first-ever 28-bore shotgun.
Haven't even warmed its barrel yet.

Its one of those gorgeous little top-lever hammer rook rifles that Thomas made for H&H before the turn of the previous century, this one in .425 Rook but bored out to 28ga long ago and reproved in the UK (I presume: 28 in a diamond on the barrel flat).

Oddly, retailed by W.E. Ekins of Adelaide and the locks so-marked. Will toss-up a few photos when I get time.

However, I digress... Apologies!

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
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Conor_90
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: Marrakai]
      #358484 - 23/11/21 05:56 PM

I love a good digression, I make a habit of it in fact. Sounds like a very interesting gun

Here’s one for you

Australia seems to have a much better selection of British firearms, intended for the colonies and otherwise, than we do here in Canada. Collectors importing? More British expats? The extra ~ 35 years between independence and its overlap with the creation of the guns we all like so much? Proximity to the states may have been a big factor. The Lee Enfield is a constant, but Canadian wildcatters took the path of juicing it up for use in P14s

Maybe I just get a false impression by viewing nitroexpress??

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fuhrmann
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: NitroX]
      #358485 - 23/11/21 06:06 PM

Quote:

I don't see the point in a 28 gauge combination. Maybe others don't either? So a reason they don't exist?

I think some of the multi barreled things four or five barrels have a sub 12 gauge barrel.

Lots of combinations have 16 gauge barrels.

Probably the sub 12 g use is to keep the combination lighter and trimmer in cross section with the extra barrel(s).

---



I think that is the reasoning of European hunters, too.
The shotgun barrel should be sufficient for a fox at least, maybe even roe deer.
And if a slug is used, if should be sufficient for wild boar.

That leaves:
12 gauge: by many hunters considered a bit bulky for a combo gun.
16 gauge: often used in the past, but for whatever reasons quite obsolete now
20/76: often seen in modern combination guns

And looking at double barrel shotguns, you will rarely see any smaller gauge in Europe.
Some enthusiasts may use them, but the majority of hunters see them as toys.
Plus I do not know of any clay competition for small gauge shotguns. 12 gauge rules.

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DarylS
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: fuhrmann]
      #358499 - 24/11/21 05:06 AM

I have an stack barreled Zoli in 12x.222 that I have to fire at least once, some day. I haven't shot it yet. LOL Not even sure why I bought it. Good looking gun, though and points well.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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HeymSR20
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: DarylS]
      #358616 - 27/11/21 09:59 PM

28s of any persuasion are rare and in combinations, probably like hens teeth. And I am not sure why. 16 Bore combinations and drillings are beautifully balanced. A 16 bore shotgun, is again a thing of beauty. A 16 bore has the almost perfect balance of killing power but in svelte package. It is much less bulky than a 12. And then you drop to the 28 which makes a wonderful light gun, but still with enough shot to give a usable pattern, and for most applications is better than the 410. I do use a 410 in the field, but it allows little room fir error.

But the 20bore, I have never been sure of. In a traditional Side by side using its original load it makes an OK gun, but if you lightweight the 28 is better. But most 20’s are over and unders and every body shoots a 28 or 30 or 32gram load - 1oz, 1 1/16 or 1 1/8oz. Those 12 or 16 bore loads, and with a 20 you are increasing pressures which makes them snappy to shoot.

I can understand why many combinations now are in 12 or 20, but they are a real compromise. 16 is the best all round balance. And a lot of the modern combinations are not really suitable for winged game. Yes the have a shot barrel, but they handle like a heavy barreled rifle. Take a careful bead at a stationary target and let fly with shot. You are not going to use it a jinking woodcock or a duck springing from a pond.

I am lucky in that i have a wonderful Hambrusch built 16 / 7x65r combination. I have taken deer at over 200 yards, fast running wild boar, and yet it handles like a well balanced shotgun and have shot phaesant, woodcock and duck. It’s balance does make the rifle a little light and it does require concentration when using the rifle.

Now the ideal compliment would be a 28 with a 22 Hornet, 222 rimmed in a 5lb all up weight little beauty.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: Ahmed577]
      #358626 - 27/11/21 11:06 PM

Quote:

John are you saying you have never seen a 28 bore shotgun.



No never seen a 28g, a 24 g.

Everyone shoots 12 gauge here. Some kids learn with a 410. Occasionally a 20 gauge. That's about it.

I'd love a nice 20g.

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: NitroX]
      #358627 - 27/11/21 11:07 PM

Seen 16gs years ago for a while common in gunships. Then the supply dried up.

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pacecars
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: NitroX]
      #360231 - 09/01/22 12:56 PM

28 ga and 6.5x52r (.25-35) Cape Gun
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/919478492

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cable
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: pacecars]
      #361541 - 05/02/22 03:26 PM

i have a german 28 ga combo that has a 5.6x35R rifle barrel [ not quite the same as 22 hornet ] very light andd elegant little gun:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/jnNdvfq.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/YeutsmB.jpg?1[/img]

not sure what it is particularly good for [ especially here in alaska ] but it is a neat little toy !

my first attempted handload for the rife shoots dead on at 25 yds with center hold.

Edited by cable (05/02/22 03:29 PM)

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cable
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: cable]
      #361542 - 05/02/22 03:31 PM



i have a german 28 ga combo that has a 5.6x35R rifle barrel [ not quite the same as 22 hornet ] very light andd elegant little gun:






not sure what it is particularly good for [ especially here in alaska ] but it is a neat little toy !

my first attempted handload for the rife shoots dead on at 25 yds with center hold.

Edited by NitroX (05/02/22 07:52 PM)

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DarylS
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: cable]
      #361545 - 05/02/22 03:46 PM

That's nice. I had to copy paste the urls to a different window to see. Nice engraving, too.
.22 Hornet, I assume.

Looks like a good grouse/tarmigan gun, but a little light to be the only thing carried, perhaps?

Lucky for you, you can pack a decent handgun.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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260rem
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: DarylS]
      #361548 - 05/02/22 03:56 PM

Same, definitely a nice gun and something I'd be happy to own. I would guess in Alaska it would be great for squirrels, birds ect and even beaver.
It would make an ideal gun for calling in foxes too.

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Igorrock
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: 260rem]
      #361575 - 06/02/22 06:51 AM

5,6x35R has been called in Europe as .22 Vierling, not Hornet. This caliber bases to old black powder .22 WCF and it´s bullet caliber is a tad smaller than Hornets.

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93x64mm
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: Igorrock]
      #361577 - 06/02/22 07:23 AM

Lovely little shooter Cable!
Have you tried the 28g in it yet?

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260rem
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: Igorrock]
      #361580 - 06/02/22 10:31 AM

Quote:

5,6x35R has been called in Europe as .22 Vierling, not Hornet. This caliber bases to old black powder .22 WCF and it´s bullet caliber is a tad smaller than Hornets.



Would it then be like the original 22 hornet with a 223 diameter bullet not a 224 one?
But the 5.6x35R was otherwise another name for the hornet used in Europe from everything I've read.
But they did come in both bullet sizes, I have both size dies here actually.

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DarylS
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: 260rem]
      #361585 - 06/02/22 12:05 PM

The original .22 WCF used a .228" cast or swaged bullet with it's black powder charge.

The original .22 Hornet used a .223" groove diameter barrel and bullet.

Hornady and Speer both make .223" and .224" bullets for Hornets.

The original rate of twist was 1-16", same with the first .220 Swifts all the same rate of twist as the standard .22 Long Rifle rim fire.

CZ .22 Hornet's also have or had 1-16" twists. Mine had a .224" throat tightening to .223" at the muzzle.
It and the my second CZ Hornet were both very accurate with both .223" and .224" bullets, it didn't care.

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260rem
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: DarylS]
      #361592 - 06/02/22 04:03 PM

My K95 is also a 1:16 twist which is my only downside to it, I really wish it had a, 1:14 or even 1:12 so I could shoot 55gn pills in it.
But because 22 hornets were originally made from 22lr rifes that pesky 1:16 became the standard twist in hornets.
But luckily a few gun makers use a faster twist in them.

That 1:16 caused me some real headaches trying to develop a subsonic squib load for shooting around camp with, if I could have used heavier 55gn bullets it would have been much easier.
I was actually thinking about giving black powder a go as a mouse fart load with a 40gn HP.

I know I can just take a 22 away which is what I usually do, but it's nice just to have to take a 2nd scope away and still be able to plink around camp.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: cable]
      #361597 - 06/02/22 08:10 PM

Quote:



i have a german 28 ga combo that has a 5.6x35R rifle barrel [ not quite the same as 22 hornet ] very light andd elegant little gun:






not sure what it is particularly good for [ especially here in alaska ] but it is a neat little toy !

my first attempted handload for the rife shoots dead on at 25 yds with center hold.



Unusual, to me at least, full wood combination. Quite elegant. Please post more pictures!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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lancaster
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: NitroX]
      #361598 - 06/02/22 08:46 PM

the 5,6x35R Vierling was a german/austrian development from the 22WCF with a nitro load and jacketed bullet. it predate the hornet by maybe 40 years. you get the vierling in a hornet chamber but not reverse.
vierling barrels are tighter but I have heard "vierling barrels rechambered for the hornet shoot very fine because of the oversized bullet".

I would load vierling cartridges.

interesting pic


22 WCH
5,6 Francotte
5,6x35R Vierling
22 Hornet

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260rem
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: lancaster]
      #361604 - 06/02/22 11:21 PM

That is interesting, I can honestly say I can't see the difference between the two.
I'm sure if I picked up a verling I'd stick it in my hornet without a 2nd thought.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: 260rem]
      #361607 - 07/02/22 01:10 AM

Quote:

That is interesting, I can honestly say I can't see the difference between the two.
I'm sure if I picked up a verling I'd stick it in my hornet without a 2nd thought.



Shoulder looks slightly different?

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lancaster
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: NitroX]
      #361614 - 07/02/22 02:43 AM

ok, you want it, you got it


https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/en/tdcc_public?page=4&cartridge_type_id=2




I think you had to grind of a 22 hornet die to get the should deeper for the 5,6 Vierling

max. bullet diameter for the vierling is .2216", a common .223 bullet will work or not

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Marrakai
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: cable]
      #361625 - 07/02/22 10:11 AM

Nice looking firearm, cable.
Very interesting 'teutonic' style!
...but I do like the full-wood stock.
Quite unusual on a combo I suspect.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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cable
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Reged: 01/12/06
Posts: 5
Loc: alaska United States
Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: Marrakai]
      #361926 - 13/02/22 11:16 AM

the 22 hornet wont chamber, and the rim is too thick. but i used 22 wcf brass [ formed] that i get from buffalo arms. the bore is about .222 ad graf and sons had .222 bullets [ if think they are from Prvi Partizan ] and they shoot dead center and all in one hole at 25 yds.

the 28 gauge is 2.5" chamber,full choke of course, and i found some shells [ i believe RST had them ] and it patterns well with the pattern centered at point of aim.

i found this little gun in an auction [ on proxibid ] and couldnet resist it....like a lot of my accumulation [ cant call it a collection, that implies a pattern or plan ] i just found it very appealing. doesnt even weigh 5 lbs.

hopefully i will take it out to the remote mine and at least shoot grouse or ptarmigan.

i am in montana right now, when i get back to alaska, i will take some more pictures.

--------------------
cable

Edited by cable (13/02/22 11:18 AM)

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cable
.224 member


Reged: 01/12/06
Posts: 5
Loc: alaska United States
Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: cable]
      #361927 - 13/02/22 11:29 AM

did find a few more pictures:












i believe the gun dates to 1925

the 'sight rail' on top, should allow a removal scope, but it tapers a bit from front to rear so haven yet found a mount that would work [ 74 year old eyes would appreciate a small scope ]

the condition of this gun suggests it has had very little use ever. bores are perfect.

--------------------
cable

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DarylS
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: cable]
      #361930 - 13/02/22 11:53 AM

Quote:

the 22 hornet wont chamber, and the rim is too thick. but i used 22 wcf brass [ formed] that i get from buffalo arms. the bore is about .222 ad graf and sons had .222 bullets [ if think they are from Prvi Partizan ] and they shoot dead center and all in one hole at 25 yds.

the 28 gauge is 2.5" chamber,full choke of course, and i found some shells [ i believe RST had them ] and it patterns well with the pattern centered at point of aim.

i found this little gun in an auction [ on proxibid ] and couldnet resist it....like a lot of my accumulation [ cant call it a collection, that implies a pattern or plan ] i just found it very appealing. doesnt even weigh 5 lbs.

hopefully i will take it out to the remote mine and at least shoot grouse or ptarmigan.

i am in montana right now, when i get back to Alaska, i will take some more pictures.



I think you mean the groove diameter is .222", not the bore.
If a .223" bullet will fit in a fired case, then you can also use .223" bullets - by Speer and Hornady.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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cable
.224 member


Reged: 01/12/06
Posts: 5
Loc: alaska United States
Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: DarylS]
      #361932 - 13/02/22 12:22 PM

yes, you are right... meant to say groove diameter. i suspect 223 would work fine, though some folks on double gun forum claim that they have had best results with the 222 and grafs had a sale on them so i got a large supply [ ordered twice by accident. should do me for my life time !! ]

--------------------
cable

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
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Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: cable]
      #361937 - 13/02/22 01:11 PM

Sounds good. Was thinking that the .223 would work, as my CZ's shot well with both .223" and .224" bullets - identically, actually.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Conor_90
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Reged: 12/01/18
Posts: 45
Loc: Canada
Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: cable]
      #374028 - 11/02/23 06:13 AM

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=102173758

Found one; if only it was in a big game calibre

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: Conor_90]
      #374034 - 11/02/23 10:40 AM

Hornady makes 45gr. .223" - maybe 40gr. as well.
Seems to me, Speer makes or made a 35gr. or 33gr. in .222" for the .22 Jet.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: 28 Gauge Combo Guns [Re: Conor_90]
      #374040 - 11/02/23 11:03 PM

Quote:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=102173758

Found one; if only it was in a big game calibre



this would be hard, such little combination were build for ligth weight with a small shotgun caliber and similar small rifle caliber. they were taken when being in the hunting ground out of the season to react on smaller pest or when hunting only on small game.
the closed season is the "Schonzeit" so this was called sometimes "Schonzeitgewehr" - closed season gun.

here is a newer typical example, voere combination gun in .410 3" and 22 hornet
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19017169

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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