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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
Snider Sporting rifle .450cal
      #341077 - 14/05/20 05:36 AM

Singleshot rifles and in particular Sniders had NEVER said a thing to me until I came across this one.
I know nada about things contraptions. I found this one to be `nice` and I bought for a £1000. What could go wrong except for a £1000?..

This Snider is from Isaac Hollis & Sons, London.

The caliber could a .450 No rifle or Carbine...or perhaps a .450 Eley








Edited by rigbymauser (14/05/20 05:39 AM)


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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3954
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: rigbymauser]
      #341078 - 14/05/20 06:07 AM

I never heard of a 'non military' Snider before as well!
It does make you wonder when it was converted, perhaps a date on the barrel / proof mark will determine that?
I know this will be BP only, but it certainly is a unique piece rigbymauser........no wonder it caught your eye - I really do like it as well.
The workmanship is superb!
Certainly a wonderful pickup, you must endeavor to get this old lady up & running, it will be marvelous to see what caliber it finally is, the load data; but most important how she shoots!


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
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Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: 93x64mm]
      #341081 - 14/05/20 06:33 AM

What a GREAT rifle to own. Well worth the price of admission. Well done rigbymaster.
All the checkering, engraving and horn schnabble forend tip - wonderful.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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HistoricBore
.300 member


Reged: 28/09/11
Posts: 224
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: DarylS]
      #341082 - 14/05/20 07:57 AM

I am sure that some civilian Sniders were made for the civilian sporting market. That arrow engraved through an S must mean something to someone out there. Yours has the later latch to stop the breech block popping open by accident.

I have a similar but smaller Rook rifle one in .380 calibre - definitely made for civilians!

HB


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TH44
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Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 731
Loc: West UK
Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: DarylS]
      #341083 - 14/05/20 07:58 AM

Jens - as Daryl says everything is extra nice, a very good pick up

93X64mm - it is not a conversion, the Snider action was used by private gunmakers for everything from .297/230 to
8 bore. I have one, a lightweight in .577 Snider

Isaac Hollis, later & Sons was a major manufacturer making many different Single Shot and Double actions

They a re relatively easy to load for but better stick to BP

Tony


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HuviusModerator
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3518
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Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: TH44]
      #341085 - 14/05/20 08:09 AM

That is a particularly nice example.
I feel I’m in the same boat as you are, never all that moved by Sniders but would happily make room for a nice sporter such as yours.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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Hendo
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Reged: 23/05/18
Posts: 35
Loc: South Australia
Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: Huvius]
      #341089 - 14/05/20 04:18 PM

I recently acquired a I Hollis mini Snider in 360 rook, It looks similar to yours except not in as nice condition and it shrunk. mine also has an octagonal barrel. Its currently being professionally restored. lovely rifles and I suspect not many around. especially not in the condition of yours. what a treasure. Does anyone know what period I Hollis would have built these rifles? I'm guessing that the introduction of Martini actions both large and small would have spelt the end of Snider manufacture.

--------------------
.


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Louis
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Reged: 13/05/15
Posts: 977
Loc: France
Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: Hendo]
      #341090 - 14/05/20 04:35 PM

Very smart - and obviously rare, rifle; congratulations on your acquisition RigbyMauser!
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2386
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: Louis]
      #341094 - 15/05/20 02:16 AM

And then there are the J.C.Lord carbines.



Problably the most common Snider sporting rifles. One source says only 200 made. For the number reported on British Militaria forum either all examples of the 200 survived or perhaps the figure is wrong.

Not military but chambered 577 Snider.

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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Wayne59
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Reged: 20/06/15
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Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA
Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: DoubleD]
      #341096 - 15/05/20 04:16 AM

I beleacve the broad arrow is an acceptance mark for the British military.

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: Wayne59]
      #341099 - 15/05/20 09:42 AM

Beautiful rifle, Jens!
I have a weakness for these sporting Sniders.

DD that carbine is too damn cool, complete with the ramrod!

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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TH44
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Reged: 21/02/09
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Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: Wayne59]
      #341100 - 15/05/20 09:49 AM

The arrow through the S is the patent mark for Snider and should be on every Snider except for military/ordnance rifles/carbines
One of my Sniders is made by Hollis for the Board of Ordnance, without it, all others have it

J.C. & A. Lord were general merchants and supplied Birmingham trade arms amongst much else
I do not know of any that did not come from Nepal??? anyone?

Douglas - I got mine from Uncle Joel at the same time as yours IIRC

TH44


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DoubleD
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Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: TH44]
      #341114 - 15/05/20 11:09 PM

Uncle Joel. Yep. Sold me this gun cheap as it was missing its from sight. Then turns around and gave my Granddaughter an Army-Navy documented Greener .22-Martini of course.

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: DoubleD]
      #341126 - 17/05/20 02:57 AM

Some images.
Pretty nice gun of its age.










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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: rigbymauser]
      #341127 - 17/05/20 03:20 AM

I tried to see if a .45-70 brass could fit? .Nope!...I think this one is a .450 Eley. Maybe a .45long colt brass would fit?. I`ll try that later. I might be lucky to fire lowpowered Magtec .45colt cowboy loads in it. I read in Oz these .450 Eley`s in these Snider were called `roorifles`..(think of Skippy)..





Edited by rigbymauser (17/05/20 04:13 AM)


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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: rigbymauser]
      #341129 - 17/05/20 05:01 AM

With some simpel investigation the Danish 11,7x51 Remington case shorten to 1,5" comes closet to the .450 Eley No 1. Not a 100 perfect match..but`ll do. I doubt Eley Brothers have more left on the shelves for this one. I doubt too they`ll ever make it again..:LOL

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: rigbymauser]
      #341134 - 17/05/20 07:24 AM

Good work.
Now, waiting for the shooting results. Have fun.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3954
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Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: rigbymauser]
      #341138 - 17/05/20 08:07 AM

Quote:

I tried to see if a .45-70 brass could fit? .Nope!...I think this one is a .450 Eley. Maybe a .45long colt brass would fit?. I`ll try that later. I might be lucky to fire lowpowered Magtec .45colt cowboy loads in it. I read in Oz these .450 Eley`s in these Snider were called `roorifles`..(think of Skippy)..








Great info Rigbymauser!
Yes definitely bigger than the .45 Colt, it would certainly have been used on skippy's back in it's day; maybe for hides unless you wanted a BIG hole in the middle of things or head shoot, but range estimation would be critical.
Would certain be fun trying to see how accurate this one will be though - just to see if it can still be a 'roo rifle'?


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bouldersmith
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Reged: 23/03/06
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Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: 93x64mm]
      #341150 - 17/05/20 09:13 AM

I'll be the odd man out. I have always like Snider sporting rifles. I sold a lovely one for a client last fall. The lines remind me of percussion rifles and do love them.
Steve

--------------------
New website http://www.bertramandco.com


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3475
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: bouldersmith]
      #341158 - 17/05/20 01:40 PM

Not a .450, so hope this doesn't result in a thread hijack, but I have one of the J.C.Lord carbines in rather nice condition.

Posted a few pics of it on the British Militaria forums years ago, FYI:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishm...075.html#p74187

Still haven't fired it!

Love these things!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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lancaster
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Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: Marrakai]
      #341160 - 17/05/20 02:08 PM

brilliant snider marrakai, do you ever shot pics with this? suspects its a .577





















.



450 No. 1 is indeed a problem



454 casull rim diameter is under the base diameter so it dont work




there is no case you dont have to change rim diameter and rim thickness on the lathe

11,7x45 R danish remington comes very close but its rare and berdan primed




11x58R spanish remington is a good match but expensive and sometimes hard to get



8x50R Lebel is a little bit over on the base but the case is very conical and I am sure its possible to reduce the little bit oversized base diameter on the lathe without weaking it for a blackpowder load. reduce rim diameter and thickness also, aneal case mouth and blowing out with a fire form load.
the brass is common, cheap and available from PRVI







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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: lancaster]
      #341165 - 17/05/20 08:14 PM

Love Snider by Marrakai.

Thanks Lars for your research. The .450 Eley No1 is its own. There is a few companies that makes custom brass if one supply them with case specs. I might order some...however the next thing is reloading dies. That too is a custom thing.

From George Hoyems book `The history and development of small arms ammunition` Vol 3(1985)

Maybe a shorten .450 nitro case will do the trick on this one.



Edited by rigbymauser (17/05/20 11:24 PM)


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: rigbymauser]
      #341173 - 18/05/20 12:40 AM

450 NE is to thick



45/70 brass to thin


and 50/70 again much to thick



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: lancaster]
      #341177 - 18/05/20 02:31 AM

The belt of a 7mm Magnum could easily be turned down to the proper size for the base, at about .525"(13.35mm). The rim is only .532"(13.51mm), but would still likely work if in good shape.
The case, trimmed to length and sized, and perhaps inside reamed or outside turned, whatever is necessary.
As well, a larger rim (.573" ring) can be installed and sweated on(soldered) for BP loads.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
Re: Snider Sporting rifle .450cal [Re: DarylS]
      #341186 - 18/05/20 07:41 AM

Quote:

The belt of a 7mm Magnum could easily be turned down to the proper size for the base, at about .525"(13.35mm). The rim is only .532"(13.51mm), but would still likely work if in good shape.
The case, trimmed to length and sized, and perhaps inside reamed or outside turned, whatever is necessary.
As well, a larger rim (.573" ring) can be installed and sweated on(soldered) for BP loads.




Got to think of it...why not just re-chamber to .450 Bushmaster...lol


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