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Boryx
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Loc: Denmark
Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4”
      #326084 - 20/03/19 06:58 AM

Hello Nitro Express

I have recently got myself a Daniel Fraser rook rifle. I have been looking for a Daniel Fraser falling block for about three years now. Have found quite a few ones, but no one ended up here with me.

This one, is a rook model, and is therefore very small and light weight, all dimensions are small and Suits the rifle very well. Only the stock length is like on a normal size rifle.

Along with the rifle i got 60 rounds of Kynoch .360 NE 2-1/4”. I have tried the rifle with a tempory scope mounted, and it was grouping very nice.

My gunsmith is just working on scope mounts that will fit the original bases, and a Pecar 4x81 is the scope ill get put on.

I have got some brass in 9,3x72r that I will convert to suit, by shorting them to 57mm. There is 18 month waiting time on a die set, and i would hear if any of you have had success with resize in a 9,3x72r die set? Is that possible you think?

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85lc
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Boryx]
      #326088 - 20/03/19 07:39 AM

You might check ebay for a die set.
I found a CH4D die set for 360 NE on ebay and use that set, with 9.3x72 brass, to make cases. It is fairly easy.

--------------------
RB

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HuviusModerator
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Boryx]
      #326089 - 20/03/19 07:39 AM

Welcome to Nitro Express!
Your post concerns me a bit.
Your rook sized rifle is not intended to shoot .360 nitro loads unless it has been substantially modified.
Even then you may be asking too much of the action.

Would love to see some pictures.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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DarylS
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Huvius]
      #326098 - 20/03/19 10:28 AM

Boryx - Welcome to NE.
Your rifle sounds amazing - but - you do not REALLY own one of those lovely single shots, unless we can see it.
I am also concerned over the ammo you are using.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: DarylS]
      #326106 - 20/03/19 12:15 PM

Welcome to the forums!

Yes, photos would be proper.

Let's see it. We love pictures.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Boryx
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: CptCurl]
      #326112 - 20/03/19 05:50 PM

Thank you all for the welcome..

I know Pictures would have been prober, the only ones I got right now are in a poor light taken with my mobile phone.

Ill try tonight to take a couple pictures outside in daylight and with a better camera - and after that try to upload the to the platform (witch seems to be a little difficult?)



@Huvius - I have found an old advertisement for Fraser rifles, and here its written that the Fraser rooks was made I .360 calibre, but nothing written about the cartridge size. The old Kynoch ammo I got with the rifle I just presumed was the right calibre...... but now ill put the shooting on "stand by" for a little time..

//Boryx

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Boryx
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Boryx]
      #326138 - 21/03/19 01:03 AM

Here is a test of inserting a poor photo - better photos will follow tonight or tomorrow.

Edited by Boryx (21/03/19 04:09 AM)

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HuviusModerator
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Boryx]
      #326139 - 21/03/19 01:29 AM

Good photos of the proofs would help in determining if it has been reproved for nitro.
The Fraser rooks are just so dainty that it would be shocking to me if one were proofed for the 2-1/4” 360 Nitro cartridge.
If you have difficulty posting pictures, PM me and I will give you my email so I can post them for you.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Boryx
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Huvius]
      #326140 - 21/03/19 01:34 AM

I do have troubles posting pictures. I have tried to share from google photos, but it doesn't work!

Ill send you a PM to get some help.

Where will the proofs marks be sitting, I cant find any - have removed the front stock (forearm?)

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HuviusModerator
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Boryx]
      #326143 - 21/03/19 01:47 AM

Proof marks (stamps) should be right over the breech area of the barrel.
Could be under the wood but I don’t think that would be the normal location.
Should say “360 EX” or something similar.

--------------------
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HuviusModerator
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Huvius]
      #326145 - 21/03/19 03:19 AM

Here is the rifle.



--------------------
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DarylS
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Huvius]
      #326149 - 21/03/19 03:35 AM

What a nice stalking rifle!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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HuviusModerator
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: DarylS]
      #326152 - 21/03/19 03:50 AM

Whew!!!
Boy do I feel better! Using Nitro for Black cartridges!
No problem doing that although I do believe those NfB Kynochs are quite collectible.

Beautiful rifle!









--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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450_Ackley
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Huvius]
      #326159 - 21/03/19 06:06 AM

Wow, what a very pretty little rifle.
Please keep us informed on your progress on how it shoots for you.

DC

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93x64mm
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #326160 - 21/03/19 07:23 AM

Lovely old piece there Boryx!
You certainly have a real gem there mate, all that waiting you did certainly paid off!

I was thinking the same as Huvius, but with reduced Nitro for Black loads then it won't stress this old lady too much!
You might be lucky, someone here may have already done the NFB loads for this calibre.
Please keep us all informed on how you go, it's a rather interesting calibre!

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: 93x64mm]
      #326166 - 21/03/19 11:58 AM

That's gorgeous! Thanks for posting.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Boryx
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: CptCurl]
      #326179 - 21/03/19 08:14 PM

Yes I feel pretty lucky, finding such a little nice rook model - original I was looking for a Fraser in .303, but I think that a rook fits even better for my demands. Ill be using it for stalking roebucks here in Denmark, and maybe Sweden and Germany (Germany might course me problems, because we have to hunt with lead free bullets)

Of course ill keep you updated how I get on with the rifle, how it shoots, loads develop etc.

The rifle is overall in god condition, there is no big damages to the stock (a little on the pancake cheek), scope bases or anywhere. Only thing, the buffalo horn on the end of the forearm has properly been damaged and there have been made a curve witch is not original - my plan is to get a new piece made, identical to the original the rifle was born with. It has seen a lot of use, the rust blueing on the barrel is hardly not excising, the stock is with a lot of bumps and lumps, the cheekering is almost gone - so I consider to let it go thru a restoration where the stock will be done with new oil treatment, new cheekrering and a new rust blueing.
Will this be okay to do, or is it better leave it as it is?

Im a rookie into reloading, and therefor I will properly be asking for help with develop a load for the rifle from you guys full of experience.
Will it be best to make a new thread in the reloading forum or just keep it going in this thread?

Ill do a chamber cast as the next step in the process, to find out what bullet size ill be using in it. Do you think there will be any chance that it will shoot with jacket bullets or will that course any big troubles/danger/damage to the rifle? Or do I need to get a extra hobby in the hobby, and start casting bullets in lead.

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fuhrmann
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Boryx]
      #326183 - 21/03/19 09:49 PM

Boryx

congratulations for this splendid rifle.
To me, this is not a rook rifle. it is a proper stalking rifle, with the minimum practical cartridge for roe deer.
The British .360 2 1/4 Express has a continental relative, 9,3x57R/360 - related but not identical. I have an Austrian stalking rifle in this caliber and succeeded in reloading and a bit of hunting too:


So I have collected some information plus practical experience for reloading, will gladly share this. Please send me a PM with your e-mail if you wish.

Regarding restoration: on these first pictures the rifle looks in pretty good and original condition. I would probably leave it untouched (also would not think of having my rifle restored, probably in similar condition) but that is a personal choice.

Regards fuhrmann

Edited by fuhrmann (21/03/19 09:58 PM)

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Boryx
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: fuhrmann]
      #326188 - 21/03/19 10:46 PM

Fuhrmann, lovely rifle you have got there.

I have send you a PM for more information.

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fuhrmann
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Boryx]
      #326191 - 21/03/19 11:07 PM

Hi Boryx
please see my reply per PM!

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85lc
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: fuhrmann]
      #326212 - 22/03/19 07:36 AM

Fuhrmann,
If you don't mind, please share your loads. I have a Lancaster DR and a Henry in 360 and am always looking for different loads.

--------------------
RB

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MikeRowe
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: 85lc]
      #326219 - 22/03/19 01:31 PM

You have a wonderful rifle there. The Fraser single shots are the best of the best!

Is it No.1522?

I have had success regulating a 360 x 2 1/4 BPE double by using 50 grains of Olde Eynsford 2F and a 150 grain paper wrapped bullet. This load would probably shoot very nicely in this little rifle if it has the Fraser ratchet rifling - and be deadly on roebuck!

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Boryx
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: MikeRowe]
      #326225 - 22/03/19 04:42 PM

Quote:

You have a wonderful rifle there. The Fraser single shots are the best of the best!

Is it No.1522?

I have had success regulating a 360 x 2 1/4 BPE double by using 50 grains of Olde Eynsford 2F and a 150 grain paper wrapped bullet. This load would probably shoot very nicely in this little rifle if it has the Fraser ratchet rifling - and be deadly on roebuck!



Correct, its no. 1522 - where can you ser that on those pictures? :-)

The Powder you use are not common in Denmark, ill try to se if I can get anything like it.

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paradox_
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Boryx]
      #326228 - 22/03/19 05:57 PM

Boryx

Magnificent Fraser quality....I too wonder why you describe it as a Rook Rifle???

--------------------
Walk softly and carry a big stick

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DarylS
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: paradox_]
      #326229 - 22/03/19 06:25 PM

Boryx - Swiss 1 1/2F black powder should work about the same as Old Enysford, which is marketed for or by Hodgdon in the USA. Swiss 2F might also be perfect.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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MikeRowe
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: DarylS]
      #326246 - 22/03/19 11:41 PM

Daryl - I tried Olde Eynsford 1 1/2F in the .360, and there was not enough case capacity to get sufficient velocity to regulate the double. The 2F had enough oomph to get the job done.

This is not a problem in a single shot, though.

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fuhrmann
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: 85lc]
      #326263 - 23/03/19 02:39 AM

Quote:

Fuhrmann,
If you don't mind, please share your loads. I have a Lancaster DR and a Henry in 360 and am always looking for different loads.



85lc

my rifle is not an English .360 but a Germanic 9,3 mm. So I use different bullets.
Cases are DWM 9,3x72R, trimmed and necks turned.
With RWS and S&B 193 grain jacketed bullets (9,3 mm), I used as powders Rottweil R901 and Vihtavuori N120, velocities measured between 500 and 550 m/s
With Haendler & Natermann 193 grain swaged lead bullets, I also used SR4759, velocities 400-450 m/s.

More details via PM if you don΄t mind.
Regards fuhrmann

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HuviusModerator
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: MikeRowe]
      #326264 - 23/03/19 05:19 AM

Quote:

Daryl - I tried Olde Eynsford 1 1/2F in the .360, and there was not enough case capacity to get sufficient velocity to regulate the double. The 2F had enough oomph to get the job done.

This is not a problem in a single shot, though.




I’ve noticed that with the Old Eynsford Powder.
The 1-1/2F is much more coarse than the 2F. So much so that I’ve not tried the 2F in any of my big cartridges.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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DarylS
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: MikeRowe]
      #326275 - 23/03/19 01:08 PM

Hey Mike - I figured Swiss 1 1/2F might be about the duplicate of Enysford 2F and that 2F Swiss might be a bot too "fine" for the job.

In my .50/95, 78gr. of 3F GOEX was only 70fps faster than 85gr. 1 1/2F Swiss, using the same 368gr. FN bullet.

Both powders were loaded to the same volume, thus 85gr. Swiss 1 1/2F took up the same space as 78gr. 3F GOEX. Thus, Swiss BP is much more dense than GOEX, which should be close or the same density wise, to Old Enysford?? I do not know if this is so, or not.

I did not have any 2F SWISS to test in my .50/95, but figured likely the same velocity as 3F GOEX, thinking perhaps the 2F Swiss might be faster than desired.

Swiss brand powder should be easier to obtain, in Denmark.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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HuviusModerator
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: paradox_]
      #326308 - 24/03/19 12:33 AM

Quote:

Boryx

Magnificent Fraser quality....I too wonder why you describe it as a Rook Rifle???



Fraser's falling blocks came in two sizes (pretty sure anyway), one for regular cartridges up to .500 BPE or 500 based cartridges and another smaller sized action usually reserved for rook cartridges.
The size difference between the two is substantial.
That is why I expressed such concern in shooting a 360 nitro load in such a dainty action.
Now, to the rifle at hand, size wise, it is of rook rifle configuration but is chambered in a cartridge more suitable for small deer and larger small game.
Something more akin to what was referred to as a "Park Rifle" from the muzzle loading era meaning a rifle used for small deer in a deer park. My understanding of that is that the very wealthy and royalty reserved land on their estates for that particular use.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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DarylS
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Huvius]
      #326312 - 24/03/19 04:46 AM

I agree - although did not know the "size" differences, the chambering did not fit rook or rabbit shooting.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Boryx
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: DarylS]
      #326316 - 24/03/19 06:31 AM

It is exceting with all those new info!

There is one more like mine (rook size, but born in a rook caliber) for sale in, but you guys have proberly allready seen it

http://www.ariantrading.com/product/falling-block-rifle-fraser-ref-1685/

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DarylS
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Boryx]
      #326366 - 25/03/19 04:49 AM



\
Now, isn't this nice!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Boryx
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: DarylS]
      #326992 - 08/04/19 05:31 PM

I have now got some help to develop a load for the rifle. I got an very experienced reloader who have done lots of nitro for BP loads.
He has made a load with S&B .366 193 grain bullets.

I would like to upload some pictures - is there free alternative to Photobucket?

I have also decided together with the gunsmith to put on another scope than the Pecar, and some more small changes to the restoration.

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fuhrmann
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Boryx]
      #326993 - 08/04/19 07:02 PM

Hi Boryx
try www.picr.de

fuhrmann

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Boryx
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Boryx]
      #326997 - 08/04/19 10:43 PM

Ill try Again with Pictures:

This is the test load at 55 meters. The one at 100 meters is pretty much the same grouping. They are shoot with scope at 4x magnification. I'm happy with that.



Edited by Boryx (08/04/19 10:49 PM)

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93x64mm
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Boryx]
      #327011 - 09/04/19 06:07 AM

Boryx,
can you add in all the details of your load(s) please - for later reference.
Cheers
93x64mm

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Boryx
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: 93x64mm]
      #341130 - 17/05/20 05:10 AM

Hi nitroexpress

My Fraser has now been out stalking. I brought it to Sweden to hunt roebuck - and with succes. It was not finished in process of the restoreration, but i was able to use it without beeing 100% finish.

Its now away to my gunsmith to get done the last things, Think ill get it back next month.

Here is a couple photos from the hunt:



Edited by Boryx (17/05/20 05:21 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Boryx]
      #341132 - 17/05/20 07:20 AM

Well done. I see you changed the scope.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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93x64mm
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: DarylS]
      #341139 - 17/05/20 08:22 AM

Well done Boryx!
Certainly a lovely piece you have there, what's next on the restoration work for this old girl?
Please include you loads if you remember - certainly an accurate rifle!

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bouldersmith
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: 93x64mm]
      #341149 - 17/05/20 09:11 AM

Nice job and a lovely little rifle!

--------------------
New website http://www.bertramandco.com

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Boryx
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: bouldersmith]
      #341161 - 17/05/20 03:52 PM

@Daryl - Well spottet, correct that i changed it from a Pecar to the small Swarovski. It is much better optics.

@93x64 - i have had help with the load, and therefore i dont have all the information, if i get them, ill share them here.
Next thing getting done, is new oil and finish on the stock, blueing of the barrel, cleaning the action from old oil an stuff - no polish, just cleaning. The forend horn cap have once got damaged, that needs to be fixed. And the cheekering was almost gone - so a new will be made.

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MikeRowe
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Boryx]
      #341175 - 18/05/20 01:37 AM

Good job Boryx! It's wonderful to see the old Fraser single shots doing what they're meant to do.

I have been fortunate to take three deer so far with mine.

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fraserdouble
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: MikeRowe]
      #341191 - 18/05/20 11:08 AM

Boryx
I think you will find that the checkering is filled with dirt, oil and hand grease (gunk).
Try a tooth brush with plenty of spit (saliva) you will be amazed with how it will clean up.
Fraser

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DarylS
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: fraserdouble]
      #341193 - 18/05/20 11:38 AM

Fraser - thanks for the suggestion. I have a Field, London 12 bore I will try that on.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Louis
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Loc: France
Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: DarylS]
      #341198 - 18/05/20 04:21 PM

Congratulations on your very nice rifle and on your successful hunt, Boryx.
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"

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DarylS
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Louis]
      #341209 - 19/05/20 01:59 AM

Not sure I would call a .360 2 1/4" a Rook rifle, stalking rifle, yes.
I'd always thought rook ctg's were small, short rounds, up to the .310 Cadet ctg. in size.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tom_H
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: DarylS]
      #341235 - 20/05/20 06:16 AM

Weidmannsheil!
What a superb little stalking rifle.
The reduced frame size reminds me of the Winchester Low Walls that were occasionally found in larger calibers like 44-40. Made to be capable of taking larger game in the lighter package.
Good shooting.

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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Boryx
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Loc: Denmark
Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: DarylS]
      #342861 - 28/06/20 04:58 AM

Hi,

You are right, it is and have never been a rook & rabbit rifle. It is just the size of the action there is "rook" size.

From now on, i'll mention it as a Stalking rifle!Sorry for confusing you guys.

I have now got it back from the gunsmith who have done the restoration on it - last night i shoot another roebuck with it here in Denmark.

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Boryx
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” *DELETED* [Re: Boryx]
      #342863 - 28/06/20 05:37 AM

Post deleted by Boryx

Edited by Boryx (28/06/20 05:59 AM)

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Boryx
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Loc: Denmark
Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Boryx]
      #342866 - 28/06/20 06:04 AM







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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
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Loc: Denmark
Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Boryx]
      #342867 - 28/06/20 07:06 AM

Beautiful rifle.

They don`t make θm like that anymore.

Nice buck with a .360express Fraser singleshot should be all roebuck hunters goal.

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tinker
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: rigbymauser]
      #342874 - 28/06/20 03:42 PM

Nice rifle!

Beautiful photos from a great day in the field too.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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lancaster
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: tinker]
      #342876 - 28/06/20 06:55 PM

yes, excellent
the buck, the rifle, the picture

all fine, any informations about the load?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
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Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: lancaster]
      #342906 - 29/06/20 08:43 AM

Wow - that is exquisite!

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: 93x64mm]
      #342913 - 29/06/20 03:27 PM

.360 is hardly a "rook" rifle, isn't it?

But what a lovely rifle. And a nice roe deer taken with it.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Ash
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Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: NitroX]
      #343796 - 29/07/20 12:58 PM

Looks like the checkering cleaned up great

--------------------
.

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Louis
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Reged: 13/05/15
Posts: 977
Loc: France
Re: Daniel Fraser rook rifle - .360 NE 2-1/4” [Re: Ash]
      #343807 - 29/07/20 04:44 PM

Beautiful rifle and very nice buck!
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"

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