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303
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sharps carbine in 45/70
      #31641 - 21/05/05 09:14 AM

dose any one here own a sharps carbine replicar in 45/70 and are they any good

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Guncotton
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: 303]
      #31802 - 23/05/05 11:11 PM

"dose any one here own a sharps carbine replicar in 45/70 and are they any good"


That depends on who makes it. C-sharps and Shiloh sharps make the best. I own a 45-70 C-sharps with a 34" barrel and it's a world class rifle you won't be sorry with either one.

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Plains99
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: Guncotton]
      #31811 - 23/05/05 11:57 PM

I bought a Pedersoli Sharps carbine about 15 years ago and was not prepared for the recoil the rifle generated. Stock design, light weight and my inexperience produced a combination that like to pounded me to death and I got rid of it in favor of a heavier Remington rolling block replica. I was flinching and pulling my shots with it. I don't know how I'd react to it today because a lot has happened since then and I've learned a lot about big gun management. I've learned enough to suggest that you look into a rifle with more weight if you want a Sharps design unless you have experience with recoil management. As Guncotton said - Buy a good one. As far as a single shot carbine design is concerned the Ruger #1S is VASTLY more shootable than a Sharps design. If you are wanting to play the Sharps is certainly fun but if you are wanting to hunt the Ruger is a better choice for a novice.

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Guncotton
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: Plains99]
      #31833 - 24/05/05 02:48 AM

If what you want to do is shoot targets and your set on a Sharps then don't get a carbine in 45-70. Way to brutal instead get a heavier model. Mine weighs 14lbs and handles the recoil nicely.

With the Sharps I can shoot a 80-100 round string and my shoulder is hardly sore the next day. Tryed that once with my 8 lb Marlin 1895 CB my shoulder was brused and sore for a week.

If you want to hunt then as plains99 pointed out a ruger #1 is a far better choice. Much more user friendly and you can use heavier loads. You can also add a muzzel break and recoil compensater to stock to help manage recoil.

Also if down the road you decide you want something bigger and more powerful the Ruger can be rechambered.

Last but not least the Ruger will be about 1/3 the price of the Sharps and you probably won't have to wait for it.

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Bighammer
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: Plains99]
      #33287 - 17/06/05 04:21 PM

Weight is the secret to good shooting with a Sharps. I recently shot a Pedersoli Silhouette model and it shot like a dream. That was off a bench too which is about as uncomfortable as you can get. I will be purchasing the rifle in due course and shooting it simply finalised my decision.

Pedersoli make an excellent quality rifle and this one is no lightweight. I aim to hunt with it but only from a hide. It definitely isn't a carrying rifle. With double set triggers, 32" octagonal barrel, colour case hardened receiver and Soule tang sight, it is a beauty!

Sharps really do have their own charm.

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Guncotton
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: Bighammer]
      #33305 - 18/06/05 12:08 AM

Bighammer,
You hit that one right on the head weight is the key. Originals tipped the scales as much as 25lbs (the average being 12-15lbs) which made shooting 100-200 rounds 6-7 days a week a bit more tolerable.

Mine is a new model 1874 45 2.1" (45-70) with double set triggers, 34" number 1 heavy octagonal barrel, colour case hardened receiver, hartford silver nose cap, sharps tang sight, globe and post front sight, hadley eyepiece and extra fancy wood. They realy are works of art!

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rgp
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: Guncotton]
      #33335 - 18/06/05 04:14 PM

I think Shiloh makes a better rifle than C. Sharps and the Shilohs I've seen are equal to or better than any rifle made in terms of quality. Both companies make top quality rifles.

My Shiloh is set for delivery in 2006...although I am wondering why someone who ordered one a couple of weeks ago is set for delivery in October 2004.

Richard.

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Guncotton
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: rgp]
      #33351 - 19/06/05 12:57 AM

My Father originally ordered this in the mid nineties and fired it less than a hundred times. 6 Months ago he gave me the rifle and Frank Sellers book “Sharps Firearms” (I’ve had my eye on it ever since he ordered it and has been on my list to get one). I was curious about the differences regarding the two makers so I started to ask questions.

Shiloh uses in house investment cast actions and rifles their barrels using the button method. Shiloh makes the entire rifle on site.

C. Sharps use milled actions from another company. They use Badger Barrels that are rifled using the cut method. C. Sharps assemble and finish rifles on site.

Personally, I feel that Shiloh’s methods are more along the line of mass production like Ruger’s. Ruger pioneered the investment casting process to reduce overall cost through increased production. I’ve owned many and for mass production guns, they turn out some of the best.

On the other hand, I feel C. Sharps takes a closer to custom hand made approach, which results in a finer overall rifle.

If you go to a BPCR shoot, you will more than likely see more Shiloh’s than any other make. Ask anyone how they like the Shiloh and you will here nothing but great things about them and the company and the same holds true for C. Sharps.

Therefore, what’s the real difference well, that depends entirely on personal taste and opinion. One thing is for sure your money won’t be wasted and you’re not likely to be disappointed since their the best made Sharps in the world.


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Bighammer
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: Guncotton]
      #33458 - 20/06/05 04:43 PM

This is all very interesting. Who was the original Sharps? Shiloh or C. Sharps? I only know of Shiloh and I thought they were the original Sharps manufacturer. Their rifles seem to be of excellent quality but C. Sharps methods of using milled actions and cut-rifled barrels are more attractive to me. Accuracy-wise, does one have the edge on the other?

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Guncotton
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: Bighammer]
      #33474 - 20/06/05 11:15 PM

The original Sharps CO. closed it's doors in 1880. Shiloh started out as the Shiloh Rifle Manufacturing Company and was owned by Wolfgang Droege and goes back to early 1970s late 60s? C. sharps was the main distributer and moved to Montana in 1981 and Shiloh followed in 1983. In 1991 Wolfgang retired and the Bryan Family took over. Shortly after Shilohs move the two went there separate ways and the word is things are a bitter between them. This is pulled from Mike Venturino's book "Shooting Buffalo rifles".


"Accuracy-wise, does one have the edge on the other?"

I dont think one realy has a significant edge on the other both rifles are capable of dropping 500+ grain bullets into the 20" 10 ring at 1000 yards open sited.

After doing the research it seems that barrels using cut rifling are considered to be of higher quality than the button type. And like anything I'm sure this can be argued all day long. Here is an artical on Barrel making
Cast vs milled action again that can be argued all day long both certainly perform well. Rifles like anything else are only as good as the sum of their parts. Personaly I think C.Sharps uses slightly higher end components. In the end it boils down to personal preference.

Regardless which one you buy you won't be dissapointed.


Edited by Guncotton (20/06/05 11:34 PM)

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Bighammer
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: Guncotton]
      #33520 - 21/06/05 04:24 PM

Guncotton,

Thanks for that info. The article on barrel making is fantastic and very informative. I'm a fan of cut-rifled barrels as I have an H-S Precision .270 which is an absolute tack driver. But I guess that's only one aspect of good barrel making.

Had a look at C. Sharps website and they seem to have a very small range of rifle models compared to Shiloh. If just websites were anything to go on, Shiloh has the vote!

Does either name have the edge over the other in terms of prestige or reputation in the US? In other words, would similar rifles cost more simply because of the name on the barrel or action?

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rgp
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: Bighammer]
      #33523 - 21/06/05 04:58 PM

Likely not...

The practical difference between the two is that C. Sharps has the legal rights to stamp "Old Reliable" on the barrels like the orignal Sharps, but Shiloh has the legal rights to produce parts that are interchangeable with the originals.

Take your pick, both companies make the BEST single shot rifles on earth, and you can't go wrong with either one.

In the USA, both are pretty much equal in reputation. Both offer the same range of products...Shiloh merely offers some preferences that a lot of people pick as standard models..C. Sharps offers the same, but C. Sharps has you pick all of your options to go with the action.

Both are really custom guns.

Richard.

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Bighammer
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: rgp]
      #33527 - 21/06/05 05:29 PM

Damn, gotta have "Old Reliable" stamped on it!! I'll have to investigate C. Sharps a bit more. A man's work is never done!

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Guncotton
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: Bighammer]
      #33552 - 22/06/05 03:46 AM

I agree compaired to Shiloh's web sight C.Sharps falls abit short. C. Sharps offers more of a varity of Sharps single shots. For example they offer the 1874, 1875, 1878 and the Winchester 1885 Highwall. Shiloh on the other hand only offers the 1863 and 1874 models. Just depends on what your looking for. Which ever one you order you will enjoy it.



Edited by Guncotton (22/06/05 07:58 AM)

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Bighammer
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: Guncotton]
      #33597 - 22/06/05 03:50 PM

One requirement that a Sharps has to have is a pistol grip and shotgun-style butt. That does make the rifle a lot more comfortable to shoot.

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Guncotton
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: Bighammer]
      #33636 - 22/06/05 11:13 PM

The shotgun stock is more comfortable with out question. The grip on mine is straight and I tend to like the lines of the straight better but I can go either way.

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Bighammer
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: Guncotton]
      #33701 - 23/06/05 04:11 PM

C. Sharps don't even picture one pistol grip model on their website. I know that was the traditional style but the shotgun style stock is my preference.

I found that with a straight grip and crescent buttplate, even a 30-30 is noticably more uncomfortable to shoot.

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Guncotton
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: Bighammer]
      #33769 - 24/06/05 12:08 PM

I know the web sight sucks what can you say!
Order the catalog it's much better. The rifles that C. Sharps and Shiloh offer are custom for the most part you can order it the way you want it. Pistol grip stocks are available from both companys as well as a plethora of other options.


"I found that with a straight grip and crescent buttplate, even a 30-30 is noticably more uncomfortable to shoot. "

I will agree with you that the Crescent buttplate is noticably uncomfortable to shoot. My fathers original winchester 1886 45/90 is brutal target shooting.

But I have not noticed a real difference in shooting between straight and pistol grip. Example I currently own a Marlin Cowboy 45/70 Straight stock and I owned a Marlin 1895 45/70 pistol grip (no longer own). Both are great hunting rifles BUT!!! at 7-8lbs they are realy brutal shooting target with (80-100+ rounds). I didn't realy notice any difference between the two.


On the other hand the Sharps at 14lbs is Soooo nice to shoot . You will get spoiled realy quick I have

There realy is no other rifle on the planet like a Sharps and no one else makes them better than C. Sharps and Shiloh Sharps.

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rgp
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: Guncotton]
      #33772 - 24/06/05 02:22 PM

The reason people normally ordered the straight stock and crescent butt in the 1800's was because it was the standard and they couldn't afford a pricy shotgun butt with a pistol grip.

If you get a Sharps, C. Sharps and Shiloh make the best quality Sharps rifles on earth.

If you don't object to a .416 Rigby or a .458 Lott, most of the Sharps rifles are pretty mild by comparison. If you're able to tolerate 20 rounds per day from the .416 or .458 or .470 then go ahead and get any Sharps in any calibre you like. Remember most Sharps shooters DO NOT shoot an elephant blaster. Their "heavy" rifle is usually the Sharps.

Richard.

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Guncotton
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: rgp]
      #33817 - 25/06/05 08:58 AM

"The reason people normally ordered the straight stock and crescent butt in the 1800's was because it was the standard and they couldn't afford a pricy shotgun butt with a pistol grip."

True but it may have been more of a pragmatic approach at least with the Hide hunters since the sharps was a "Tool" and not a toy.

"If you don't object to a .416 Rigby or a .458 Lott, most of the Sharps rifles are pretty mild by comparison. If you're able to tolerate 20 rounds per day from the .416 or .458 or .470 then go ahead and get any Sharps in any calibre you like. Remember most Sharps shooters DO NOT shoot an elephant blaster. Their "heavy" rifle is usually the Sharps."

Personaly I don't object to the 458 winchester magmun or the 50cal barrett or a 45/70 gatling gun not much on the recoil but lots of fun . I have not fired a 416 or a 458 lott so I don't know how they compair.

You are correct thet most Sharps shooters don't fire the elephant blasters in fact most sharps shooters use Black Powder only. Personaly I'm a nitro burner only and a big fan of big bore nitro rifles and big bore magnum pistols.

Edited by Guncotton (25/06/05 09:00 AM)

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rgp
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: Guncotton]
      #33822 - 25/06/05 12:24 PM

Guncotton,

Somewhere I read that in the 1870's a new Sharps cost up to $225 complete with a bullet mold and an Ideal realoading kit. Considering those buffalo hunters may have had 2 or 3 or 4 of them for business that could have become very expensive very fast. I think at the time a Colt Single Action Army only cost $20 and an 1873 Winchester was also about $20.

Where did you find a .45-70 Gatling gun? Is it a reproduction?

Thank you,

Richard.

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Guncotton
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: rgp]
      #33847 - 25/06/05 11:01 PM

“Somewhere I read that in the 1870's a new Sharps cost up to $225 complete with a bullet mold and an Ideal realoading kit. Considering those buffalo hunters may have had 2 or 3 or 4 of them for business that could have become very expensive very fast. I think at the time a Colt Single Action Army only cost $20 and an 1873 Winchester was also about $20.”


Actually, Sharps were nowhere that expensive. In some of Colonel Frank Mayer’s accounts, he claims to have paid $237.50 for a 16-pound 45/120/550. However according to Frank Sellers, book Sharps Firearms he was either way overcharged by someone or he exaggerated the price greatly. Here is the factory price break down (model 1874) according to Sellers.

Basic rifle $33
Double set triggers $4
Globe and peep sights $5
Barrels $1 per inch over 30” and $1 per pound over 12lbs.
Stocks could add another $35
Telescopic sight ~$40 (1885 price)

In “Getting a Stand” by Miles Gilbert it’s mentioned that a hide hunter’s word was as good as gold and not uncommon for them to charge a lot or all of their equipment till they got established.


“Where did you find a .45-70 Gatling gun? Is it a reproduction?”

Every year at Norco in southern California, they hold a shoot. Factories, gun shops and some collectors bring out hundreds of guns for the public to shoot (try before you buy). Depending on the caliber the cost to shoot them runs from $1-$5 a round. The year I went a collector had several original 1889 Gatling guns (not for sale) chambered in 45/70 and charged $1 per round to fire them. The Barrett semi auto cost $5 per round.

The Colt and Winchester prices sound about rite. I believe you could also pick up a Remington rolling block for ~$16. I wonder what the English doubles cost at that time.

Mike






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Bighammer
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: Guncotton]
      #33953 - 27/06/05 05:05 PM

Guncotton,

Having recently played with a tactical rifle with a vertical grip, I find that the more vertical the grip is, the more comfortable and solid the rifle feels. It simply takes away any strain from the wrist of the firing hand.

I like the look of the Marlin Cowboy. With its longer octagonal barrel, it should be sweeter to shoot.

Yes, nothing like a suitably weighted Sharps with double set triggers!

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Guncotton
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: Bighammer]
      #34138 - 30/06/05 10:42 PM

I agree the vertical grip such as what you find on assault rifles is more comfortable.
The cowboy is great to shoot and with 9+1 rounds you can shoot longer

Yep nothing like a sharps .

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powhatan42
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: Guncotton]
      #37895 - 21/09/05 03:07 AM

Hello guys! I am new to the site, however I do own a Shiloh-Sharps 1874, 30" octagon barrel in 45-70. I enjoy the rifle at the range, but I still need to draw first blood with this weapon! I am a 45-70 fan, and waited patiently for this gun.

The information you revealed is most helpful.

What do you guys do for slings and accessories?

Thanks!

Glenn

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rgp
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: powhatan42]
      #37933 - 21/09/05 06:36 PM

Glenn,

Shiloh Rifle Manufacturing Co. offers a full line of accessories, including slings as far as I know.

I think Ballard Rifle & Cartridge Co. also offers a full line of accessories.

Also try Buffalo Arms Co.

Richard

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powhatan42
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Re: sharps carbine in 45/70 [Re: rgp]
      #37954 - 22/09/05 01:44 AM

Richard,

That's my middle name as well as my dad's middle name!

Thanks for the web sites...I had them as favorites, but I lost my hard drive about two weeks ago. Thank goodness for extended warranties.

It was nice to see what is going on in the single shot world.

Thanks,
Glenn

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