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500Boswell
.400 member

Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 1276
Loc: Queensland

Pedersoli Sharps ?
#278308 - 22/02/16 07:54 PM

Hello ,
Does anyone own a Pedersoli Sharps [in any config] what you think of it, accuracy ,build quality,calibre etc
Thanks

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
#278330 - 23/02/16 04:26 AM

One of the local cowboy action fellows had his new Pedersoli Sharps in .45/70 at the club on Saturday.
He was testing loads using commercial 405gr. Cast bullets and SR4759 powder.

His first three shots at 100 meters off bags went in just under 2" with the factory iron sights, 24.0 or 26.0gr. IIRC.
I did notice the small firing pin indents, which is good & means these rifles do not have the huge BP firing pins.

It seemed to me to not be as finely made or finished as the C.Sharps Arms or Shiloh Arms Model 74 Sharps. That is the only "negative" I can attribute to them.

The block's spring seemed excessively strong as well, but I have read these rifles are competitive in BPCR events.

The Rolling Block a buddy of mine shoots in .45 2.4" by Pedersoli, however was very nicely done - I was impressed with it.

sentence correction about firing pin

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (24/02/16 02:30 AM)

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500Boswell
.400 member

Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 1276
Loc: Queensland

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
#278362 - 23/02/16 06:51 PM

Thankyou Daryl_S
Cheers

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
#278372 - 24/02/16 02:31 AM

Welcome - I edited my post about the firing pin.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
.400 member

Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
#278378 - 24/02/16 11:44 AM

I have had several of them. They are good shooters. They are one half the cost of a C Sharps but they don't look any were as good.

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500Boswell
.400 member

Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 1276
Loc: Queensland

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
#278395 - 24/02/16 03:59 PM

Thanks Wayne ,
Pedersolis are reasonably priced ,by the time you try to import a C.Sharps or Shiloh into Aus your looking at 5 to 6k AUS$ ,then the wait to build,[more than double the price of a Pedersoli here ] then another wait for the import ,Forbes Wholesale have several in stock and more coming in April ,maybe the Pedersolis finish is more in keeping with the original Sharps finish ? maybe, just a thought .anyway will have a look at getting one
Thanks again for the info
Cheers

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
#278420 - 25/02/16 04:37 AM

The big plus is availability and cost, of course. They seem to be good shooters.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
.400 member

Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
#278433 - 25/02/16 07:32 AM

You may want to look carefully at the bore on any Pedersoli you buy. They have been shipping some crap out of there plant. The last one I bought has chatter marks all the way down both barrels. I don't know weather it is a exception to the rule but I have heard others complain about quality. It is a shame. They used to make some pretty nice guns. Plan on trashing the sights and adding a set of Kelly's to it. The Original sights arn't very repeatable.

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500Boswell
.400 member

Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 1276
Loc: Queensland

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
#278440 - 25/02/16 08:27 AM

Thanks for the tip on the barrels Wayne ,a fellow i know bought a 45/120 and he said the barrel wasnt screwed on properly and the sights were canted at an angle ,sometimes i think the Manufactures know they can dump the ''Parts bin Specials '' overseas because they will never see them again, and most likely wont ever be returned ,same with motor vehicles etc

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Wayne59
.400 member

Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
#278453 - 25/02/16 12:19 PM

If you can find one of the Chiappa Sharps long range Creedmoore's for sale in your country take a close look at it. They are one nice rifle for the money. Same goes for the sights on these but the rest of the rifle is first rate. The only other draw back is they only make these in one caliber (45/70). Not that there is anything wrong with 47/70.

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500Boswell
.400 member

Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 1276
Loc: Queensland

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
#278461 - 25/02/16 04:34 PM

Not sure if they are available here ,the importer and gunshop here that does import Chiappa ,doesnt answer emails or return phone calls so they are just a waste of space and evidently dont want or need the business

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
#278477 - 26/02/16 01:34 AM

The Ladder rear sight on the Pedersoli Sharps I saw, was a VERY poor 'rendition' of the original ladder sight. The spring (body design) did not work to hold the sight's ladder upright. Very sloppy. I bought one of those ladder sights from Brownells for my new Winchester Model 1876 & it's beautiful - even nicer than my original Sharps ladder sight that is on my modified 68.
I'll try to find the link for you - they retail $169.95? at Brownells - same price at Buffalo Arms, but the Brownell's sights are more nicely made with detents between range numbers for positive stops.

Here it is:

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/sights/rear-sights/m-95-long-range-sight-prod18599.aspx

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
.400 member

Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
#278484 - 26/02/16 11:44 AM

I replaced the sights on my Chiappa with Kelly soul sights. My old eyes need all the help they can get. Two of my C Sharps (45/70 and 50/90) have full length telescopic sights. Its kind of cheating but at least I can hit were I am aiming. The Shilo Sharps is a carbine With a rear latter sight like Daryl mentioned But I am not very accurate with it.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
#278485 - 26/02/16 12:47 PM

This rear sight, the one that was on my .50/70 Carbine, is now on my .45 2.9" Sharps last picture, a slightly reworked Italian M68 Sharps (in the white) action I draw-filed, polished and had finished in a commercial "Metaloy" process.
In the 35" GM barreled Sharps,a s pictured below with this rear ladder sight and silver blade front sight, I did manage 1 1/2 inches groups for 2, 3-shot groups using smokeless powder and 505gr. Gas/checked bullets with 42.0gr. Benchmark powder, my brother on the spotting scope, spotting both groups. He was rather surprised, as was I for such rudimentary sighting. Just lucky, I guess. After the first group, he said they are a little high - aim at 6 o'cock on the bull for the next group. I did, ending up with 2, 1-1/2" groups for the 6 shots. Of course, this really doesn't mean much as they were only 3 shot group.

: top pictures - carbine barrel w/sight

Bottom picture .45 1.9" chamber with 35", GM heavy 3 1/2 taper barrel. Rifle weight 12.5 pounds.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
.400 member

Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
#278490 - 26/02/16 02:20 PM

My 45/70 C Sharps has the action finished in french gray. I have always thought this attractive. This is a very early manufactured gun by C Sharps. I have never shot a smokeless load in any of my sharps. That load you have looks to be a very good load.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
#278502 - 27/02/16 03:03 AM

My rifle certainly seems to like it. With it's huge BP firing pin, there has never been any trouble with pressure.
Benchmark in 48.0gr. load behind the 405gr. RP jacketed flat point produced 1,850fps in my rifle. As my rifle has a 3/8" leade or freebore, it loads as a normal .45/70, for overall length, thus I crimp in the bottom groove with a modified Lee factory crimp tool. I had to modify it as my case is only 1.9" long.

My long time but now passed away buddy Brad was on the scope watching. I had a Soule tang sight and globed aperture on the front. 10 consecutive shots off bags at 100 meters went 7/8" with the 405's and Benchmark. Incredible group, just an almost round hole 1.3" across.

Admittedly, I cannot see as well today, as I did those 6 years ago, but the rifle does shoot well still, with either sets of sights.

Benchmark, good load. Hodgdon's lists that 48.0gr. load in the max. column for low strength .45/70's with cast 405's at 1,695fps and 22,600CUP. They also list other loads to 28,000CUP, but not with cast bullets. The highest pressure listed with cast bullets are a couple load with 300gr. cast producing 24,700 and 24,900CUP using IMR3031 and Benchmark- making mid 1,900fps from a 24" bl.

Those speeds about duplicate the .450 BPE, seems to me.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
.400 member

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Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
#278509 - 27/02/16 12:25 PM

My barrel lengths run from 30" to 34". I am running 535 gr cast bullets through the 45/70 and 650gr bullets through the 50/90. I tried a Duplex loading in one off the 45s and it pushed the 535gr to a little over 1400 fps. I haven't chronographed the 50. I am going to try a duplex load in it. they burn a lot cleaner and push the velocity up about 100 fps. I haven't shoot any of the sharps much even though I have had some of them for over 15 years.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
#278533 - 28/02/16 04:02 AM

About duplex loading - many years ago I read an article about using IMR3031 as the smokeless powder in duplex loading, so I tested that method.

In the .45 2.1" Hoch bl. and then my .50 Alaskan McGowen bl. (after removing the .45 barrel) on the rolling block (at that time - 1980's)

I used 10 and 15gr. respectively of 3031, the rest of the space filled with 2f GOEX - but 10gr. & 15 less than the normal BP loads.

Accuracy was much improved and as Wayne noted and they shot quite cleanly.

As to the accuracy exactly, the accuracy with the IMR3031 in the duplex loading was better than when using SR4759 or Unique, the other smokeless powders I had used in duplex loads since the mid 70's.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
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Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
#278538 - 28/02/16 06:45 AM

I used 5744 for the last loads. Please note for anyone wanting to try this 10 to 15% of smokeless is were you want to be. 10% gets me a clean burn and an additional 100 fps. Your percentage is calculated by using the weight of black powder BY VOLUME and multiplying by 10%. Example 60gr (by volume) x 10% =6grs. Deduct the 6grs from the 60grs and your charge would then be 54grs Bp by volume and 6grs (you can weigh the 6grs) of smokeless powder. Start low and work your way up. I know this sounds simplistic for most of us But the volume measurement of the black powder is important especially in large cases. Just like using Bp loads make sure there is no air space left in the case. Daryl have you ever tried a duplex load in anything as large as a 577x3".

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DarylS
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Posts: 26516
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
#278563 - 28/02/16 04:06 PM

I should have noted that, Wayne - the 10% max. has always been suggested form the early 1970s to today, for the fast burning powders used in duplex loads - such as 5744 and 4759.

With the slower burners such as the noted '3031, more than 10% was needed to get good ignition and clean burning - as per the article - they worked well for me.

The largest ctg. I have ever loaded for, was the 30" .50 3 1/4" in a Shiloh Sharps, M74. I thought this was before I read about the use of IMR3031 in duplex loadings - but as I developed a smokeless load for that rifle with the 550gr. cast bullet using IMR3031 (1,775fps irrc)- with a case topped off with KAPOK from a old life preserver/flotation device, I'm probably remembering using 3031 in that rifle for duplex loading as well. Now that I think about it, I probably used 15.0gr. in the duplex load in that rifle as well as the .50 Alaskan.

I also recall that at that time (Shiloh .50 3 1/4"), I had some ICI 1F powder (still have 1/4 pound) that was exceptionally dense/heavy. I had read that Elmer Keith had said they should have named that case, the .50-170-700. Many laughed at him for this statement.
My 3 1/4" .50 Bell cases actually held 170gr. of that powder with a 550gr. cast RCBS bullet. Though dense, it was a poor quality powder of the late 70's, early 80's, the velocities it produced were lower than 140gr. 2f GOEX, also a not very good powder, back then - I do remember that ICI in 170gr. load sure kicked even though I had a nice wide Neidner butt plate on the rifle.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
.400 member

Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
#278598 - 29/02/16 03:51 AM

I fired the double rifle that I am building today. This has sure turned into a project. It is a 577x3" bp gun. Case holds 160grs of ffg and a 600gr cast bullet. Went off without a hitch. first rounds close to regulation. Proof tested it with the same 160gr charge and a 750gr bullet. I will be trying a duplex load next. Only got 1369 fps with straight bp was hoping for closer to 1600fps. I may be dreaming.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
#278600 - 29/02/16 04:10 AM

Seems to me the velocities were 'supposed' to be closer to 1,600fps with the 650gr. 'top-end' load.

You may have to try Swiss 1 1/2F powder - which will get the speeds up a bit.
GOEX Old Enysford might be another choice for testing.

In that large case, I'd be tempted to try the 3031 or 4895 for the duplex, in 15gr. to 20gr. weight - it certainly isn't as volatile as the faster powders and may be of more help in this instance. I would also load as much BP as I could over the smokeless 'kicker' to create a compressed load with the bullet or top wad- say 1/10" compression. You don't want to compress the powder enough to 'meal' it.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
.400 member

Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
#278605 - 29/02/16 05:01 AM

I have some of the Old Enysford powder I may have to try it. I may also have to switch to a magnum primer to help light this much black powder. I thought of that after i fired the gun this morning.

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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1414
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
#278614 - 29/02/16 10:26 AM

Wayne, this is drifting some from the original intent of the thread, however:
I get 1650'/sec out of my 24" Jeffery .577 3 1/4" BPE with 178 grains (6 1/2 Dram) 650 woodleigh soft point. This with 100% Swiss 1 1/2F and Fed 215 Mag primer.
This is pretty much equal to the specs from the old days.
You did not mention what brand of black you were using?

As you know, every barrel is different. Try Swiss 1 1/2 and a Fed215 primer.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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Wayne59
.400 member

Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 3DogMike]
#278615 - 29/02/16 10:54 AM

I had noticed that we are moveing away from the thread. The area I live in is devoid of black powder. the only way I can get it is buy the case. I have a case of Goex and a one pound of the Old Enysford and a couple of pounds of Elephant.

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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1414
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
#278618 - 29/02/16 12:06 PM

Buffalo Arms is your friend for black powder:
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Content.aspx?PAGE=Black%20Powder

Will ship even single lb if you want........

I have found over the years that for the British BP Express Cartridges both Goex or Elephant work best duplexed and compressed about 1/10".......personally use 5-10% SR4759. Gets velocities where they ought to be and burns cleaner.
Swiss much cleaner, less hard fouling, and better velocities for equal measure when using straight black.
- Mike

Back to the thread:
I had a Pedersoli 1874 Hartford some years ago in .45 2 7/8", barrel was accurate however it just was not as appealing as a Shiloh or C. Sharps. Mostly due to finish on the wood, slightly different "feel" and visual styling of forend, and odd treatment of the pewter forend tip. Action and barrel were quite nice tho......
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 3DogMike]
#278627 - 29/02/16 02:31 PM

The guys in the States who reside over at ALR forum, know of a couple outfits in the States who ship right to your door. A purchase of 10 or more # is best due to the haz-mat fee, but about anything is possible, seems to me.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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500Boswell
.400 member

Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 1276
Loc: Queensland

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
#278629 - 29/02/16 02:51 PM

I got a look at a Sharps Pedersoli carbine ,overall i thought it was good ,the wood to metal fitting could have been a bit better ,but then its not a 3 or 4 thousand dollar rifle ,the action was tight and block nicely finished and polished ,the barrel was spotless with no tool marks i could see ,wood was ordinary ,but i think Sharps look better with ordinary wood as they were designed as working rifles ,like 3DogMike said ,had a slightly different ''feel'' to the Shiloh i had [which had btw a ladder sight that moved from left to right a bit was loose ] in the end its all about how much you want to spend ,if i can sell enough of my modern rifles i would like to get a C.Sharps in 50/90,for the moment will be content with a Pedersoli
Thanks again for the replies everyone
Cheers

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Wayne59
.400 member

Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
#278680 - 01/03/16 12:26 PM

If you don't mind a little work you can strip the finish and then re oil. Re hand cut the checkering and it makes a different gun out of the Pedersoli. Saw one a fellow did and it looked darn good.

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Ireload2
.224 member

Reged: 11/08/13
Posts: 41
Loc: USA

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
#278965 - 08/03/16 01:49 PM

I have 2. One is the Billy Dixon version in 45-70 and the other is a Long Range Express in 50-70. Because both of my rifles were higher cost Pedersoli models their finish is very good. I bought both used but as new for about 55% of the catalog prices. In the US the exchange rate has hiked the cost of new Pedersolis a good bit but used rifles continue to be a bargain. You can buy nice used rifles from $900 to $1200.

I shoot both with 4759 and cast bullets. Accuracy for 5 shots is about 1.5" to 2" at 100 meters.
I shoot only aperture sights at round black bullseyes so these groups are easy to shoot with good bullets.

You can find a youtube video of the Pedersoli factory and the barrel making process.
The barrels are excellent with some choke at the muzzle for improved accuracy.

The American made competitors are very nice rifles but I don't like them enough to pay the premium prices. They don't make it clear there is several hundred dollars in sales tax added to their prices.
By the time you add everything on to get up to the level of one of the fancier Pedersolis you are looking at $3200 to $4000.

For the most part Pedersolis will compete accuracy wise with the Montana rifles though they can never match the curb appeal. You will have to add better sights. The normal Pedersoli tang sight is a low priced $50 muzzle loader sight.

Send me a PM if I missed anything you might like to know.

For a better perspective check out the Cast Boolits web site.
There is an Aussie by the handle Bad Ass Wallace. He has 5 different Pedersoli models in 5 different calibers with good photos on the following thread. Perhaps you can contact him for more details.
If the link does not work copy and paste it into your browser.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?160681-Introducing-a-new-shooter-to-BPCR

Quote:

Hello ,
Does anyone own a Pedersoli Sharps [in any config] what you think of it, accuracy ,build quality,calibre etc
Thanks

Edited by Ireload2 (08/03/16 02:07 PM)

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DarylS
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Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Ireload2]
#278972 - 08/03/16 06:22 PM

Here's my Bro's Shiloh, in .50/90. His accuracy load is 600gr. SP BuffaloArms mould powered by 91gr. Swiss 1 1/2F. This rifle and load placed 1st and 2nd (I used it too) in the Quigly match at Rendezvous BC 2015, last year.
This rifle started life for him, as a barreled action in about 1980 or 81- stocked by him in Claro Walnut - with a Niedner butt plate - and .45 3 1/4". Took us 8 years to find a cast bullet load it would shoot with BP in it's 1 1/2" deep rifling. He shot numerous 1" to 1 1/2" groups at 100 meters with smokeless and jacketed as well as black powder and 500gr. Hornady Jacketed bullets. It was not until we tired bore sized paper patched pure lead 400gr. bullets and black powder that it shot well with cast bullets.
The rust blued barrel on it now, as shown in the picture, is a McGowen 24" twist, #3 heavy taper x 28" bl. Last summer, I watched Taylor shoot a 2", 5-shot group at 200 meters with this rifle off the simple 'chunk' rest he is using in the picture - with no rear bag. That Harry McGowen, St. Anne. Illinois barrel shoots. Rifle weight - 11 1/2 pounds.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TonyD227
.300 member

Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
#279083 - 10/03/16 09:43 PM

Damn you all!

Now I have got to get one of these for myself

I am looking at the Pedersoli Old West Walnut with a creedmoore soule long range added to it.

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda-p...est-walnut.html

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda-a...long-range.html

Partly cost driven but I do like the look of this model.

What are your thoughts?

Do I need a globe front sight if I get the creedmoore rear sight?

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: TonyD227]
#279097 - 11/03/16 03:38 AM

I have the Pedersoli Soule sight on my Sharps with the Pedersoli Globe Sharps front sight and they are OK.

Taylor has the Soule sight sold by Buffalo Arms (C-Sharps or something) and it is of higher quality (& cost) than the Pedersoli sight, along with the spirit level aperture front sight. Seems to me those two sights of his came to around $1,500.00. The Hadley adjustable disk is a really nice addition to the Staff.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
.400 member

Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
#279115 - 11/03/16 12:19 PM

As much as I like Hawkins style stocks that is going to be painful to shoot. I had one once and after I sold it the next three I bought were shot gun style but plates. I still have them. As for the globe sight in a word yes. The interchangeable inserts are a blessing for poor eye sight. Hadley eye cups are also a must IMHO.

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TonyD227
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Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
#279130 - 11/03/16 04:46 PM

Thanks Gents,

Yep reconsidering the Hawkins butt and will definitely go with the globe on the front as well as the Creedmoor.

Models and type will depend on what's available here in Aust.

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.

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Englishman
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Loc: Lot,France

Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
#279134 - 12/03/16 12:04 AM

I have a Pedersoli Sharps in 45/120 (3 1/4") and I have never had a moments doubt that it will deliver accuracy, and reliability, however, I do not load it up to full power for the range, I use circa 95 grs Swiss BP, the airspace being filled with a wax wad, the modern case will not take the full 120 grs of powder due to the heavy construction of the solid head case, as to finish, I have seen C Sharps repros and have been less than impressed, the engraving looks like it was done by a kid, and the last one I saw looked like dull chrome plated! A very big advantage of the Pedersoli is that the frame/action, is made the proper way, by forging, this is so much better and stronger than machining from a solid block,(which is how the C Sharps is made), I wonder if these manufacturers export the less than perfect pieces to USA, knowing the standards there are so much lower, I have heard the same comments about quality of the Uberti products, all of these manufacturers products are of excellent, (better than original), when sold in Europe.
Having just looked at the comparative prices between USA and Europe, I cant help thinking the USA exports must be some reduced quality products as I see the prices in USA are almost half of those in Europe, even allowing for EU taxes there is still a huge difference, that goes for both Uberti, and Pedersoli.

Edited by Englishman (12/03/16 12:15 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Englishman]
#279154 - 12/03/16 07:23 AM

Interesting Englishman.

The RCBS brass I used would only "hold" 116gr. 2f GOEX, lube wad and bullet, as you indicate, not a full 120gr.

The 120gr. load, ie: .45-120-550 was the load originally used in the Sharps 2 7/8" case. Christian Sharps never chambered a 3 1/4" case.

Bell's brass I also used in my .45 3-1/4" chambered rolling block. That brass held a full 122gr. 2F, lube wad and the base of my bore size, patched 580's, making it 'fixed' ammo. The Bell brass was solid base, but of less thickness than the RCBS brass, I assume.

What the capacity of these .45 3-1/4" cases being made today by Starline or others happens to be, I do not know.

Due to my patched bullets being bore-sized and of soft lead, they expanded to fill the grooves quite well, shooting into just over 1 MOA at 100 meters. I only shot to 300meters so cannot comment on the longer range accuracy of my rifle's R. Hoch barrel.

I have never seen a Pedersoli Sharps that even came close to matching the quality of a Shiloh Sharps in action and finish & I have seen a number of both of these makes, albeit, many more Shiloh Sharps than Pedersoli's.

I have never inspected a 'modern' C. Sharps rifle, so I cannot comment on their quality in comparison to the Uberti or Pedersoli rifles.

Prices are higher in Europe because they can be. Those same Pedersoli Sharps rifles sold here are cheaper than US made Sharps and this is due, quite obviously, to the Euro versions being of poor quality in comparison.

I will say this about 'some' Italian guns, though, - I own a model 1876 Winchester in .50/95 made by Uberti - it is superb and is of higher quality than that which the original 1876 Winchesters possessed.

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Wayne59
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
#279167 - 12/03/16 12:38 PM

I am not sure what that gentleman has been looking at but both C Sharps and Shilo sharps are the standards all others are judged by. There was nothing wrong with Petersoli until lately But it seems there quality is slipping over the last couple of years. (I have a Kodiak that has chatter marks down both barrels and the holes for the nipples were drilled improperly). As for your statement that cast actions are of higher quality. They use the casting process because it is more cost effective than machining from solid bar stock and when done properly (Ruger is a prime example)it is a very efficient way to make firearms. They are not stronger than an action machined from a billet of steel.

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500Boswell
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
#279491 - 18/03/16 10:05 AM

I bought a New Pedersoli Sharps Silhouette 45/70 ,it is well made and i cant find anything to fault in it ,its well made and nice ,have not fired it yet ,but i didnt have to wait 3 months or 3 years for it ,any manufacturer can produce faulty items ,i have bought two New double rifles over the years and both had problems and cheaper new rifles that had problems ,US made and European .Im in two minds about the Shiloh being investment cast ,i know they are strong and look nice and well finished [i had one],the C.Sharps and Pedersoli are both machined C.Sharps from a billet, the Pedersoli from a Forging ,which to me seems more in keeping with Traditional manufacturing ,in the end they are all Replicas ,unless you have the High $ for and Original Sharps

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Wayne59
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
#279496 - 18/03/16 12:53 PM

Unfortunately the last Petersoli I bought I bid it off of gun Broker so I was stuck with it. It was one of those rare Instances (I feel) were it should never have left the factory. That's why I said earlier to make sure you look it over closely. Others have also been complaining about there quality. All of the currant sharps actions are suitable for what they were designed for. Hope you enjoy your new sharps. 45/70 is one of the most versatile cartridges to load.

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TonyD227
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
#279502 - 18/03/16 04:56 PM

Thanks all.

Looking at the different models and the costs to upgrade sights I am definitely looking at a model that comes complete.

The Boss is looking like the best compromise between price and options at the moment.

My only problem though is that before I lay down $2400ish I would like to see and hold what I am buying.

A few have warned me that I may be let down by the finish and feel, they may have had bad experiences?

Are there any Sydney or nth/sth NSW stores that may stock them?

Given all the stores I have spoken to have to order them in I am guessing few/any have the gun in stock.

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.

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500Boswell
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: TonyD227]
#279503 - 18/03/16 05:33 PM

TonyD227 ,
your best bet is to contact Graham Forbes ,''Forbes Wholesale'' who imports them ,and talk to him about what you want and get photos of a prospective rifle ,or have it sent to your dealer so you can get a look at it, even if you have to pay some freight one way or both ways ,bite the bullet and go from there, iam happy with mine !!!!! even if you buy a Shiloh or C.Sharps you will have the wait etc before you have it in your hands ,which is long drawn out and $$$ before you get it and i dont feel like doing that again

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Wayne59
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
#279512 - 19/03/16 12:00 AM

The last C Sharps that I ordered they gave me a six month delivery date and they met it. The hole gun was special ordered and the price was around 2700.00 USD. I ordered the gun with the straightest grain wood they could get there hands on and a heavy octagon to round 32" barrel. The owner called back about two weeks later to confirm the order. He thought there was a mistake because of my choice of wood.

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500Boswell
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
#279545 - 19/03/16 10:35 AM

I emailed C.Sharps about a Month ago and they told me the build time for the
Hartford stock standard rifle was 90 days which isnt bad .

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Wayne59
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
#279547 - 19/03/16 11:08 AM

When I checked with Shilo they wanted 18 mo. 90 days is great. I will tell you that when my gun arrived it was not without a couple of minor issues. There was a small machine chip that had found its way into the chamber and a case would not fit into the chamber. I was in the process of boxing it up to send it back when I spotted the problem. The second issue showed up the first time I took it to the range. When I cocked the hammer and let go the gun discharged. I took it home removed the lock and cleaned some kind of grit out and re-oiled it and there have been no further problems. I was mildly annoyed over the hole incident. For the kind of money these cost you should not have to deal with these kind of issue's.

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500Boswell
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
#279552 - 19/03/16 02:25 PM

I cant comprehend how some manufacturers can let a NOT perfect product out their doors like that ,i couldnt in good conscience let some of the Brand new guns i have bought, out the door ,i dont know what it is modern ''mentality ''or dont care or cant be bothered attitude, or, if it comes back [possibly] we will fix it then,years ago i had Italian motorbikes moto guzzi and ducati while the basic machine was good, it was let down by poor quality control and some bad engineering ,im sure the ones nowadays are perfect when new ,or whether its the siesta time in Italy when they return to work half asleep or half sloshed from too many vinos stuffs things up,one brand Miroku is in my experience top quality and always perfect maybe too glossy and shiny but i cannot fault them ,some guns many times their price are not as good

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Wayne59
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
#279564 - 19/03/16 11:59 PM

What really goated me was when I contacted them they wanted me to pay the return shipping and insurance. That's about another $100.00. Were not talking about sending back a tooth brush. They also insisted that they had test fired the gun. Obviously some one wasn't doing there job. Don't get me wrong. Both of my C Sharps are really nice guns but I will not be ordering from them again.

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xausa
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
#279588 - 20/03/16 08:44 AM

If anyone is interested, I am selling my Sharps Borschardt clones, made by Argus Barker of Monarch
Tool Company, Stevensville, MT. They can be seen on Guns International, offered by Pendleton Firearms. http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100675521

I refer to them as clones because they are exact reproductions of the originals, with parts that interchange. They are truly works of art, but at my age and physical condition, I can no longer justify keeping them. They need to go to someone who can enjoy them on the range.

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DarylS
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: xausa]
#279591 - 20/03/16 10:53 AM

NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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greenshoots
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
#279611 - 21/03/16 01:16 AM

damm thats nice

greenshoots

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3DogMike
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Shiloh or C Sharps? [Re: greenshoots]
#279618 - 21/03/16 03:55 AM

Wayne, I'm confused....???????
In your Saturday the 19th 5:08AM post you referenced: "......When I checked with Shiloh...."

Then in your next post of Saturday the 19th 5:59AM you referenced: "........Both my C Sharps are really nice guns but......"

Since Shiloh and "C Sharps Arms" are totally separate companies, have you had issues with both or just a typo and the issues were brand specific?
None of the current makers of 1874 Sharps type rifles are immune to screw ups; I had a "pre-Bryan" Shiloh in .50 2 1/2" made for me years ago back when Wolf Droege still owned the company.......big burr at the chamber rim recess as delivered...same deal, there was no way it could have been "test fired" before it was shipped.

That said, I think the Shiloh is at the top of the heap; just have to swallow the price and delivery time.......and the excessive expense of importing a Shiloh for those guys in Oz, Canada or elsewhere makes the Italian rifles very attractive.

For a "user grade" target or hunting rifle my experience is that the Pedersoli's are perfectly fine.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

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Wayne59
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Re: Shiloh or C Sharps? [Re: 3DogMike]
#279619 - 21/03/16 04:23 AM

My reference to Shilo was because before I ordered I check to see what the expected delivery time was and C sharps was 1/3 that of Shilo. I own rifles from both manufactures and one Italian sharps. I like all of my Sharps but when you spend as much as some of these cost you shouldn't Have to Iron out there bugs. I judge companies not only by there products but also by their service after the sale. If I call with a problem and I get excuses and denials instead of action then I will probable buy some where else the next time. By the way I found the chip when I was packing the gun and I ran an oily patch down the bore. It snagged the chip as I was pulling it out. I cleaned the gun before I ever tried to fire it but some how the patch did not hook the chip. I don't understand why it would be less expensive to import an Italian rifle into Australia. and Canada than it would be to import an American rifle. As far as witch is the better gun You will probable get a different opion depending on who you ask and witch one they own.

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sharps4590
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Re: Shiloh or C Sharps? [Re: Wayne59]
#279624 - 21/03/16 06:32 AM

Tariff's maybe?

I'm prejudiced. I looked at and fired a few other of the then rare makers of Sharps style rifles in the early 80's and ended up picking Shiloh. 'Course it was 1/3 of what they cost now but that didn't stop me from buying two more over the years. However, I've not heard of many owners of the Pedersoli Sharps that were disappointed.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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500Boswell
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Re: Shiloh or C Sharps? [Re: sharps4590]
#279627 - 21/03/16 09:00 AM

Pedersoli has a Dealer in Australia who import direct from Italy, not the U.S ,if you import a Pedersoli,Shiloh,C.Sharps from the U.S, then there is the exchange Rate, 75cent Aust Dollar to the U.S dollar,then 10% GST ,Freight and Insurance, then if you employ someone to do all the paperwork for you and dealing with customs,importing etc, could cost you another $1000.00 so it adds up ,then you have to Wait for all that to happen to get your rifle, which could be months [provided there is no hold ups or hassles with Customs ]on top of the build ''Time'' which doesnt always happen, one rifle i had built[ not a Sharps] i was told 8 Months build time, so planned around that [and for a hunt which it missed] ,was 18 Months before i finally got it

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TN_Longhunter
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Re: Shiloh or C Sharps? [Re: sharps4590]
#279629 - 21/03/16 09:21 AM

Thought I'd toss my 2 cents in and that may be what it is worth. I have Pedersoli, Shiloh, C. Sharps and Garrett Arms Sharps. I know, why have so many? I love Sharps. Pedersoli makes good guns but be careful as they finish the guns based on the order placed. Some dealers/jobbers order with topnotch bluing and wood while others order the cheapest possible. The higher end models will all be top notch. I'm talking the basic models. They will shoot, I have competed with a Pedersoli in BPCR and did well with it. My early Shilohs are good but the fit and finish is not as good as the ones made in MT. C. Sharps are also very good and are also better than the early shilohs. Shiloh has the name and thus sell better. If you are willing to call C Sharps and ask what is on the showroom wall you might get a rifle shipped out that day. Two I have were bought by the first owners that way. Garrett Arms were made in the 70s with Italian parts that were finished in the states. They are reported to interchange parts with originals. I have had two and they were well made, good (not great) finish and shoot very well.

So, if looking to go as cheap as possible, get the cheapest Pedersoli you can find. Live with the finish and fit. Little more money then get one of the higher grades. Step up in cost and go with Shiloh or C Sharps. Buy used, off the rack (when possible) or order and wait. There are some cheaper Italian makes out there and I would recommend staying away from some of those. My first was one of those. Poor quality and wouldn't shoot a 6 foot group at 100 Yards.

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Wayne59
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Re: Shiloh or C Sharps? [Re: TN_Longhunter]
#279633 - 21/03/16 12:42 PM

The first Sharps I owned was an IAB. Ugliest sharps ever made. They put a safty on the breach block. Funny thing was the dam rifle shot very well.

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TN_Longhunter
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Re: Shiloh or C Sharps? [Re: Wayne59]
#279640 - 22/03/16 12:05 AM

You mentioned IBA, I wasn't but since you did I'll say that was my first and wouldn't hit the target at 100 yds. Since then I have heard from people like you that had good shooters. Guess I got the classic Monday morning rifle. That little safety is very easy to remove on the breech block. I was aggravated by the extra step to move it out of the way on every shot.

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Wayne59
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Re: Shiloh or C Sharps? [Re: TN_Longhunter]
#279642 - 22/03/16 01:31 AM

My safety was history 30 seconds after it came out of the box. Gun was sold to fund some other project. I have had two Ami Sports and they both shot well. The biggest problems I see is the wood the Italian use would make better boat oars than gun stocks and the finishes are not to my liking. If your are on a limited budget than the Italian sharps are a good buy. Just look it over carefully before you buy it so you don't get stuck with one like the last Kodiak I bought.

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Englishman
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
#279700 - 24/03/16 01:06 AM

The C, Sharps rifles I have inspected have been imported to UK, it is quite possible that these examples have been let out of the works as exports, (we will never see them again), but the people that bought them payed a premium price for them, the wood to metal fit was less than I expected on both of them, but then they were fitted with the standard "plain Jane" wood that C,Sharps rifles come with as standard. The cost in Europe, of all things appears to be much higher than in USA, and I think that there must be some shortcut on quality to achieve this low price, I have never seen poor quality finish or fit on either Pedersoli or Uberti guns in Europe, but I have read of many really bad examples of both manufacturers products in USA, I must say that my experience of these products is from before 5 years ago.
Cast ! No not cast, FORGED, this is far better than the cheap and inferior process of machining from solid billet, (although it is strong enough), the grain structure of a forged action is just so much better than a short grained machining, the forging process takes much more equipment than does pure machining, as the components are CNC machined after forging,one only has to look at the extremely crude offerings of Ruger to see how much, (or less) effort is put into manufacture to be able to sell at a rock bottom price. As a comparison of strength, you would not machine a vehicle engine connecting rod from a billet, it is forged for strength!

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Wayne59
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Englishman]
#279719 - 24/03/16 07:42 AM

To use your comparison they do machine connecting rods from billets for dragsters and other race cars. This is done for added strength and about three times the cost.

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Englishman
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
#279906 - 27/03/16 07:42 AM

Well I am sure you are correct in this statement, but the fact is that to forge a metal object that is subject to stress is the way things are normally done , on any component, once the "grain" of the material is cut by machining, then that is a weak stress point, if the component is forged, then there is a "grain" flow which follows the contours of the component shape, quite why a connecting rod manufacturer would choose to break with conventional knowledge I have no idea, I will certainly look into that . The fact remains that a machined action has been proven to be adequately strong, and as there are less operations it must be cheaper to produce, one only requires a CNC machining centre to produce an action body, also most cartridges used in Falling Block rifles, (and Doubles for that matter) use cartridges which develop relatively low pressure, that being an advantage when these guns are used in their normal environment, hence the reason for the very large, (by American standards),cartridge cases used with Cordite, the propellant of the day they were designed, and now a problem with "modern" propellants.

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500Boswell
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Englishman]
#279925 - 27/03/16 02:53 PM

Got to have a shot out of my Pedersoli Silhouette 45/70 over the long weekend ,with its loooooooong 32 inch barrel !! i tried a load [smokeless as im not really set up for black powder yet ] from loading manual, 40 grs AR2208 ,Federal primer ,Hawkebury River 405gr lead ,i have tried this load before in my Marlin 45/70 and the problem is incomplete burning of the powder, alot of fouling and unburnt powder granules [should have known better ] anyway after several shots, then blackening the silver front sight and trying different reading glasses as my eyesight is getting bad [getting old ]and cheating using the Lead sled to avoid my heartbeat ,at 100 metres i could get shots into one inch ! provided i put a patch through the barrel after each shot to remove all the fouling ,so i was very happy with it !!! ,i was impressed with it!!! i should have brought other loads with me to try ,but ran out of time,the loads were on target in the black at 100 Metres [even more of a wonder !!!] The workmanship on my rifle is perfect in every respect and its accurate too, with the first load i have tried in it ,so you cant ask anymore than that !!!!

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Wayne59
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
#279927 - 27/03/16 09:46 PM

Congratulations. Wait till you get set up to shoot Black powder. You need to bump the bullet weight up to around 500gr or 525gr. Try one of the lyman Postell molds if you can get your hands on one. I took three of my sharps to the range last week. What a hoot. 650 grs bullets in the 50/90. There very noticeable when you pull the trigger.

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DarylS
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
#279941 - 28/03/16 06:41 AM

Quote:

Got to have a shot out of my Pedersoli Silhouette 45/70 over the long weekend ,with its loooooooong 32 inch barrel !! i tried a load [smokeless as im not really set up for black powder yet ] from loading manual, 40 grs AR2208 ,Federal primer ,Hawkebury River 405gr lead ,i have tried this load before in my Marlin 45/70 and the problem is incomplete burning of the powder, alot of fouling and unburnt powder granules [should have known better ] anyway after several shots, then blackening the silver front sight and trying different reading glasses as my eyesight is getting bad [getting old ]and cheating using the Lead sled to avoid my heartbeat ,at 100 metres i could get shots into one inch ! provided i put a patch through the barrel after each shot to remove all the fouling ,so i was very happy with it !!! ,i was impressed with it!!! i should have brought other loads with me to try ,but ran out of time,the loads were on target in the black at 100 Metres [even more of a wonder !!!] The workmanship on my rifle is perfect in every respect and its accurate too, with the first load i have tried in it ,so you cant ask anymore than that !!!!

If you can get Benchmark - I think in Australia, Hodgdon's Benchmark is ADI Benchmark 2 - a load of 48.0gr. in my Sharps (35"bl.) makes 1,850fps with 405gr. RP's and put 10 rounds into 7/8" off the bags. I have a Soule Tang sight and Sharps Aperture sight. This load is only running about 22,000CUP according to Hodgdon's Annual Manual. Good powder burn and nicely accurate, I'd say. 1,850fps is noted to be about maximum for good bullet performance with the quite soft Remington 405gr. FN.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TonyD227
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
#279947 - 28/03/16 08:26 AM

Boswell,

There is also Trail Boss (ADI) available in Aust at the moment.

13gr behind a 405gr cast rd will get you around 1000fps. Its a fast burning powder and bulky so it fills a case well. I find I don't have any residue in my 23" Sabatti with this load.

I have one and a half containers and now that I am reloading 45/70 and 38 spcl (Single Action) I might get another container to make sure I can keep going during the next drought.

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.

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500Boswell
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: TonyD227]
#279951 - 28/03/16 09:15 AM

Good thanks for the advice on the powders Gents,will look for the Trail Boss and Benchmark 2,thats impressive Darryl S, 10 shots into 7/8 !!! ,will look at getting some powder this week , i ordered a couple of Lyman moulds from Buffalo Arms will see how they go ,
cheers

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DarylS
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
#279956 - 28/03/16 12:19 PM

Any standard primer works well with the Benchmark - or Trail Boss. With other powders in these straight cases, I found I had to use CCI 250's or Rem 9 1/2 Mag. to get decent burning.

The trouble with Trail Boss, is they become plinking loads only, not good enough imho for hunting.

The .45/0 can be an excellent hunting round, capable of producing terrific smack-down-killing power on many species of big game. I feel trail boss is nothing more than a plinker for shooting tin cans.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TonyD227
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
#279974 - 28/03/16 09:07 PM

Quote:

I feel trail boss is nothing more than a plinker for shooting tin cans.

That's pretty much what I use it for.

I use the TB load to practice my snap shooting at 25 and 50M.

It shoots a little low but its good enough for practicing.

I always start and finish with full loads (the 50gr of 2207 with 405 Woodleigh's gets my attention) so I have a bit of a warm shoulder to remind me what the real thing is

--------------------
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Ireload2
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
#280367 - 05/04/16 06:49 PM

Forging is totally unnecessary for most firearms applications. Most designs are way more robust than necessary and gain nothing from a forging.
Forging is what is often called a near net shape process and many times it is bragged about for superior grain direction when that is not the real reason it is used. It is often used because there is less material to remove just like machining an investment casting.

Today most connecting rods are made by the sintered/powdered metal process and the rods are cracked to separate the cap from the rod body. Not as strong you say? Well not as strong as titanium rods either but I bet you don't own a set of titanium rods and never will. Some things are just not needed in our everyday world.

The sky high costs for things in Europe and the UK is due to added value taxes, local profit margins, excessive shipping costs and the smaller market. Shipping to the UK is about twice the shipping cost to Australia from the US. You can be sure that US manufacturers do not make cheap models just for import to Europe. Sometimes there are differences in style and tastes that translate into European models but I have never ran into anything like you claim.

American powders, bullets, cartridge cases, loading dies, presses etc etc etc are all much more expensive in Europe and it has nothing to do with anything except your own market issues. You get the same loading dies as everyone else.

Many European products are less expensive here than they are in Europe. I remember one of your citizens commenting about buying a couple of expensive German or Austrian rifle scopes in New York.
He came to the US for some other purpose but the savings on the two scopes nearly paid for his air fare.

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