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DarylS
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: TilleyMan]
      #191147 - 02/10/11 05:52 AM

.003" max variation isn't too bad, but shows you can turn all the brass to the smallest size, ie: get rid of the humps. Many cartridges can run upwards of .005".

Once trued (turned) in size, they will give you the extra .002" to .004" clearance needed to shoot proper sized grooved lubricated bullets.

Forester and Hornady both make outside neck turners that can be used to true your brass. Inside reaming does not true the brass wall thickness, only outside turning can do that. That way, you could shoot grooved lubed bullets of the proper size. Outside neck turning can be done with a mandrel and in a lathe, or with a proper outside neck turning tool. It should be much cheaper than buying a single PP mould, probably, then normal moulds (gas checked) will work just fine.

PP bullets do or rather can slug up some to fit, but need a verty fast powder to do that. Normally, smokeless powders are very poor at slugging up an undersized bullet.

Real black powder works perfectly in the slugging up or obturating of the bullets to fill or fit perfectly. Trouble is, it introduces the need for case cleaning, BP lube balls between the bullet and powder, special wads that allow burning powder access to the lube ball, special lubes that soften BP fouling, and much reduced performance compared to smokeless powder. It could/would turn your Ruger into a .450/400BPE, though - if that is attractive to you.

Flat base works just fine for PP,w ith the excess paper merely folded over the base to almost the centre of the bullet. No twisting and cutting off of 'tails' that actually hurts accuracy (did in my rifles). I switched to flat base from the cupped base and used proper length patches for each bullet weight for improved accuracy over the twisted tail, cupped base bullets. Too - I wanted to use am undersized bullet for easy chambering with BP fouling. The cup-based bullet I had was already bore size and too large for this. With black powder loads, my after patching bullet diameter was .451"- ie: bore size. According to Paul Mathews you should be able to push the patched bullet through the bore and leave rifling marks only on the paper. This was how I made mine - using proper thickness patching. Accuracy was wonderful right off the bat with the first load tried.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (03/10/11 02:36 AM)


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bonanza
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #191149 - 02/10/11 08:07 AM

What is the weight?

--------------------


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Ron_A
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #192294 - 22/10/11 10:58 AM

Just got my 450/400 back from turnbull after it was cased - looks outstanding. Had frame, lever, and rib all cased. Then remembered that I also need to have rings cased and sent them a set to finish today.

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FATBOY404
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Ron_A]
      #192296 - 22/10/11 11:12 AM

Quote:

Just got my 450/400 back from turnbull after it was cased - looks outstanding. Had frame, lever, and rib all cased. Then remembered that I also need to have rings cased and sent them a set to finish today.




I would Like to see some photo's Ron_A of it complete.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"


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Ben
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: FATBOY404]
      #192305 - 22/10/11 02:13 PM

Yes, I would like to see photos, too!

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TilleyMan
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Ben]
      #193273 - 07/11/11 10:47 PM

Trying to work up some loads for my No1 .450/400 NE 3"

I have the Hornady data sheet which gives some 400gr loads, but I'm struggling a bit finding loads for the lighter bullets using powders available in Australia...

I've got some Hornady .411" 300gr SP (originally for the 405 Win) which I think would be a good load for big pigs, Sambar deer etc.

All I can find so far is RL-15 data (64.0gr + Dacron filler for ~2100fps with a 300gr bullet) which is the same charge as the 400gr bullet... using the '75% Rule' so a double rifle will still regulate with the lighter load.

I'm after some full-house loads for the 300gr bullet which should surely get to ~2400fps safely in a No1?

I've also got some 41 cal .410" 210gr Speer pistol bullets for which 28.0gr to 30.0gr Trailboss is recommended. Could be a great cheap plinking load

All info gratefully received...


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TilleyMan
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: TilleyMan]
      #193695 - 13/11/11 12:17 PM

Here's a line-up of what I will test next weekend





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DarylS
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: TilleyMan]
      #193752 - 14/11/11 04:19 AM

I should think H4895 or Varget (a bit slower) would work OK with 300gr. and 350gr. bullets.

The only way to find a load (that I can see) will be to start with 400gr. loads and go up a couple gr. at a time form there.

I suspect you'll be shooting close to a full case of powder(maybe even compressed) by the time you get to anything resembling maximum pressures with the light bullets. The ballistics should show better than .416Rem by the time you hit descent pressure for the #1.

I also think the projected 2,400fps is quite conservative, afterall, how does the case capacity compare with known .40's? I am thinking of the .416Taylor, .416 Remington, and the .416 Rigby. Where does the .450/400 case fit?

Some load extropolation could be worked out from known data, especially when you use H4895 or the ADI quivalence as H4895 can work down to 50% reduction with total safety.

Some powders can become dangerous when reduced. This makes H4895 a great powder for load development as it's safer to work with and ignites easily in less than full case loads.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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TilleyMan
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: DarylS]
      #199277 - 12/01/12 08:31 PM

Quick update on last weekend's range trip... Part 1, Christmas got in the way of Part 2

Planned load lineup:


Planned bullet lineup:


Changed slightly since taking the above photos...

Found some more .450/400 load data from an article by John Barsness in Handloader Magazine Feb March 2012 (thanks Con!) called Modernising Two Old .40's.

He lists some loads specifically for the Ruger No 1 in .450/400 at modern pressures (but still within CIP/SAAMI limits) vs the more conservative loads necessary for double rifle construction and regulation.

I tried the 400gr Woodleigh RNSN in front of 90gr ADI 2213SC through the chrony at 2288 and 2290fps.
Then the same load behind a 400gr Hornady DGX at 2298 and 2293fps (Federal 215 Magnum primers)
Recoil was pretty brisk at those velocities

Next the 300gr Hornady SP .411" (405 Win bullet)
This was the eye-opener... you were quite right Daryl 2400fps was quite conservative!

The Barsness article indicated that 85gr 2206H would give ~2637fps. In my rifle (with 1gr Dacron wadding) velocity with this load was quite incredible at 2831 and 2837fps, case extraction still easy but noticeably more 'sticky' than traditional loads. Way too fast for the .405 Win's bullet construction velocity envelope (~2200fps) Backed off to about 2650fps this load would be great for lots of hunting in Australia...

Finally some light Trailboss loads...
31.5gr and 30.5gr loads were trialled behind the Sierra 210gr HP pistol bullet at 1915 and 1888fps respectively. These were of course very mild to shoot, and stabilised fine in the barrel twist at these velocities, make great plinker loads as well as probably being quite effective on close range pigs

Next trip I'll so some more load development with the 300gr Hornady, perhaps using RL-15 and the cordite conversion factor of 1.19 for the original 70gr cordite load (vs 55/60gr cordite for the 400gr) making 83.3gr RL-15 to duplicate the lighter original cordite load at 2600fps... then work up a little to about 85gr.

I'll also trial some more slightly reduced full power loads using ~85gr 2213SC for around 2150-2200fps using the 400gr Bertram and 400gr Hornady solids in Part 2... along with some accuracy tests.

Edited by CptCurl (16/01/12 01:23 AM)


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Rule303
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: TilleyMan]
      #199285 - 12/01/12 10:12 PM

TilleyMan your report is very informative. There is plenty of life left in the old cartridge.

I have found the Bertram pills in 416 to be as Bruce says, good for most game but not Scrub Bulls or Buff. Well I have not shot Bulls or Buff yet but on a smaller pig it sure opened it up.


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DarylS
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Rule303]
      #199301 - 13/01/12 04:25 AM

Sounds like lots of fun, TilleyMan. I'm really glad John featured that round in the new magazine. Guess I'll have to find one.

Those 210gr. pistol bullets would be fun. Seems to me, one of the pistol bullet makers made some a bit heavier- 220gr. to 240gr. maybe?

With Trail Boss, which is always fun to shoot in any rifle, the pistol bullets would make really fun plinkers with power "PWP"- the heavier ones would be quite suitable for pigs as long as they aren't going too fast to cause bad breakup. Think of anything you could shoot with a .41 mag. handgun and you have more power than that with no recoil and much better accuracy.

What a fun gun! Like shooting pistol bullets in a .35 Whelen, but having even more power instantly available exchanging for a 'big round'.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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TilleyMan
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: DarylS]
      #199434 - 14/01/12 04:01 PM

The .450/400 in a Ruger No 1 has indeed been a LOT of fun

As you say, a very flexible medium bore with cheap 41 cal 210gr jacketed pistol bullets for plinking at ~1800fps, a relatively flatter shooting 300gr spire point for medium game at ~2650fps and a 400gr RNSN at ~2200fps for heavy game.

The biggest problem is getting even two loads to print reasonably close together... my 400gr reloads print one foot higher than the factory Hornady 'Dangerous Game' 400gr loads!
I'll try 85gr RL-15 behind the 300gr Hornady and then 85gr 2213SC behind the 400gr Hornady... does the '70% rule' apply?

BTW not impressed with the Hornady 400gr factory ammo, only doing 1827 and 1929fps in my rifle, with incomplete burning... soot and unburned kernels right down the bore vs ADI 2213SC and Trailboss loads which both burned very cleanly, a nice bright bore after every shot!

I'm keen to order a 400gr paper patched HP mould, and get a soft cast lead option too... much cheaper than Woodleighs at $2+ per shot too


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Phillip
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: TilleyMan]
      #201591 - 03/02/12 10:48 PM

I added this pad to mine..much better!

Now I'm working on the sights...


--------------------
My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.
-Winston Churchill


Edited by CptCurl (06/03/12 11:34 PM)


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Drew_Jaeger
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Phillip]
      #203917 - 27/02/12 04:45 PM

Hey Fellas, I haven’t been on Nitro Express for a while, a thousand apologies. However, in the last twelve months I have been enjoying using my Ruger No.1 450/400 NE3” on Buffalo, Donkeys and Fallow Deer.




400gr Woodleigh RNSN – 83.0grs AR2213SC (=H4831SC)


400gr Woodleigh FMJ – 82grs AR2213SC (=H4831SC)

The Kahles 1.5-6x42mm is now on my Remington 700 in 358W.

--------------------
Cheers

Drew


Edited by CptCurl (06/03/12 11:34 PM)


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DarylS
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Drew_Jaeger]
      #203954 - 28/02/12 03:14 AM

Drew - that #1 thinks it's a match rifle! Very, very nice groups! Not a lot of guys can do that consistantly, as you are probably well aware.

Your #1 sure seems to enjoy punching paper, that's a given.

I expect the buffalo, donkeys and fallow deer secume quite handily when it speaks.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Phillip]
      #204620 - 06/03/12 11:36 PM

Quote:

I added this pad to mine..much better!

Now I'm working on the sights...





That pad and rear sight look like worthy improvements.

But isn't the rear sight in backwards? I think the relieved side is supposed to be in front, if I'm not mistaken.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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DarylS
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: CptCurl]
      #204651 - 07/03/12 04:48 AM

Yes about the sight - it is 180 degrees incorrect and will promote glare if left that way.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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470Krieg
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: DarylS]
      #242000 - 09/02/14 12:09 AM

I've just ordered a no.1 in 450/.400, can't wait to test this gun. I'm now looking for a riflescope to make this rifle complete. Found this scope, any thoughts ??




Nickel AG Safari 1.5-6x30 EDS

Edited by CptCurl (21/04/14 09:40 PM)


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Trailboss
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: 470Krieg]
      #253465 - 12/09/14 06:13 AM

Looks like a good scope from here, scopes, scopes and more scopes. Just depends on where and how you are going to use the firearm, some scopes are only good for specific areas depending on the type of hunt you are doing and the conditions of the hunt, this is what I use for my 450/400. It is a VXIII in 1.5x5 with a German reticle.



Edited by CptCurl (17/09/14 09:35 PM)


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thetexasrifleman
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Phillip]
      #270135 - 08/09/15 02:18 AM

Quote:

I added this pad to mine..much better!



What pad is this? I would like to add something like this to my new Ruger No. 1... I love this rifle! I was able to find one of the thirty two made with a D Weight barrel, so I've go some extra weight to help with recoil.

Has anyone used light loads with pistol bullets for hunting smaller game such as Mule Deer? I picked up some Hornady 240gr that look like they might be effective. I'm new to the forum and I'm ready to learn. Thanks!

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Lix
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: thetexasrifleman]
      #270166 - 08/09/15 09:08 AM

I have some 325gr projies from Hawk bullets. That I have used to good effect on fallow and pigs. Good bullet out of my #1

Alex


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thetexasrifleman
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Lix]
      #270554 - 16/09/15 10:07 AM

I finally found some Trail Boss and some H4831SC. Time to try some rounds this weekend. At long last, the moment is nigh!

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