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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Old Drillings still Hunters???
      #15875 - 17/06/04 05:22 AM

Is it ok to shoot the old drillings in the 9.3x72r caliber?
There were no blackpowder 9.3x72r cartridges were there?Will the barrel steel become weak with age on these older drillings?By old i mean 1900-1935???Rabbit ears cockers..
I shot one with old rws ammo & the primer blew!
Can the primer get weak from age?
I want to shoot the S&B ammo but just dont know when the cut off date is on shooting old drillings.
Do the factories keep these old timers in mind when they loadem?I had a local smith looker over & he says she looks fine to go??
Any one know of makeing her into a smaller bore?
You guys got any old drilling tales??Are they still good game getters now or just need to be put out to pasture???
Whats your thoughts -shoot-not shoot???

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luv2safari
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Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
Re: Old Drillings still Hunters??? [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #15879 - 17/06/04 06:23 AM

I presently own several drillings in 9,3x72r and recently sold a cape gun in 9,3x72r. I have hunted with drillings as my primary field shotgun and often as my deer rifle since I was 12...am now 57...**&*%%$#

I shoot the S&B in my hammer drilling circa 1921 and my hammerless circa 1926. The cape gun was circa 1926, also.

These were black powder rounds at one time. The modern ammo loadings for the 9,3x72r respects that fact. If yours is circa 1900 or later, it is probably a nitro proofed drilling. Have you taken it down and looked at the bottom of the barrels just at the base of the barrels? There should be nitro proof indications there and also the date made/proofed. It will be something like 6/21...8/11...12/27...meaning the month and year of final production.

The 9,3x72r is adaquate for deer and works quite well to about 125 yards. It is about like shooting a 35 Rem out of a carbine. It is common to have them sleeved to 30-30, but I don't see the need, since there is at long last a supply of S&B ammo on the American market. If you plan to reload for this round, IMR 3031 is great and be sure to use the proper 192 gr .364 bullets...DON'T use the heavier .365 or .366 bullets designed for the 9,3x74r, 9,3x62, or 9,3x64...POISON

I should have told you that it wasn't even safe to hold...!!! Then tried to screw you out of it...

I assume that the shotgun barrels are 16 gauge. They will be chambered for 65mm shells, about 2 1/2"+. I use the 2 1/2 " Gamebore shells in my older 16's. I also have a dwindling supply of old paper 2 9/16" American shells; they are just right for the older 16 doubles and combo guns.

Heck...just sell me the gun and get rid of all these problems...

luv2

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

Edited by luv2safari (19/06/04 11:41 AM)

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Old Drillings still Hunters??? [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #15885 - 17/06/04 07:06 AM

I will look up the barrel numbers,I have always thought it was ok to fire but dont know anyone who had done it.I shot it with the old rws ammo about 4 times before the primer blew inthe one round & then quit.It shot perfectly bullseye at 50 yards!!
I have shot a box of the 16 gamebores in #6,21/2inch....
It was a fun time!!!
I will try to get some S&B ammo & take her hunting!!!
She is in fine shape & is tight,I do have some pitting in the shotgun bores,I think all the old ones do that were shooters & hunters...
She is a imman-meffert,suhl,Hubertus,ever hear of one.
I think he was a jewish rifle maker in germany.They were in business i think in the late18oos till the 2nd war.
Cant find much info on it.She does have the rabbit ear cockers,& floor plate ammo trap...........

THANKS A BUNCH!!!!

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Old Drillings still Hunters??? [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #15886 - 17/06/04 08:22 AM

The numbers are 108/49.It has a crown with a u under it.And a crown with a N under it.And a crown with a W under.And a crown with a S under.Also 2g or 2p Sch.P-27 31 on the barrel flat next to the bores on bottem.Can you help me with these marks?Thanks very much.

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Old Drillings still Hunters??? [Re: luv2safari]
      #15887 - 17/06/04 08:34 AM

How much could she be worth?Serial number is 128xx.Low numbers on the last two...Lots of blueing & engraved all over,no chips or trashy stock stuff,Wood is walnut nice grain & chercking ,excellent shape,no carving on stock no fish scale checkering.Right hand cheek,Looks all original,no reblueing or finishing.Gotta a elk,6point roe buck,rabbit,grouse,2 partridge,Hound& faunta,flora engraving all over the sides& bottom of receiver.Double triggers,Tang slides to activate rifle cocker on right hammer.Black horn pistol grip cap and butt plate.Also has sling swvils built in.Thanks

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Tom_Bigbore
.224 member


Reged: 16/01/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Germany
Re: Old Drillings still Hunters??? [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #15901 - 17/06/04 07:29 PM

you can check this page if you find your proof marks. http://www.singoldschuetzen.de/M08_Allgemein-Dateien/Dateien/M08X36_Beschuss.htm

crown U = Final Proofing
crown N = Nitro Proofing
crown W = shotgun choke bore Proofing
crown S = shotgun cylinder bore Proofing

Iīm not sure about, but 2g Sch.P could mean 2 Gramm Schwarzpulver (Blackpowder), this would be equivalent to 31 grains but seems to be a low number...!?

hope that helps a bit
Tom

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Old Drillings still Hunters??? [Re: Tom_Bigbore]
      #15902 - 17/06/04 08:11 PM

Thanks Tom,Do you have any idea of the date she was made?could the 108/49 mark mean 1949????

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Tom_Bigbore
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Reged: 16/01/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Germany
Re: Old Drillings still Hunters??? [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #15908 - 17/06/04 11:35 PM

No,
your proof marks have been stamped between 1891-1939
I guess itīs 1908.

If you are looking for further information on the manufacturer and/or gun you can check the Suhler gun forum. (in english) There you can find some info on your manufacturer. You can also place questions related to Suhler guns.
http://www.gunmaker.org/englisch/index_e.htm
goto Gunmaker Forum!
goto Get a list of all themes

If you need reloading info on the 9,3 x 72 R let me know
Tom

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Old Drillings still Hunters??? [Re: Tom_Bigbore]
      #15911 - 17/06/04 11:56 PM

Hey tom,Fantastic!!!
I been trying to find that out forever!Thanks a lot!!
Yes i would like some loads for the 9.3x72r.
It is a good shooter.Seems like would be great on deer & boar!!
Thank You for your help !!!

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Old Drillings still Hunters??? [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #15917 - 18/06/04 01:45 AM

Could the 108/49 mark be a pre 1912 caliber mark in gauge for the lands in the rifle barrel?Are do you think it is the dateing?
I did find out that HUBERTUS was a trademark or I.meffert in suhl,registered on may15,1907..with the liege proofhouse.
Also Hubertus is a german hunter saint in german folklore?
Immanuel meffert was founded in 1839 -1938 and produced more than 60,000 guns& had 200 employees at one time.
He introduced light metal in gun manufacturing,His Hubertus Drilling has a system case of Duraluminium,harden at the surface-and was a hunters dream when it came out because of the light weight of carry in the mountains...I think in 1910.Again i think the sch p & 29 means schultze pulver-smokeless powder & 29 is the lead shot charge proofed in the barrels around 1910 or 1909???
The factory was in the middle of the town of suhl,& it was purchased in 1901.Meffert was a jew & his factory was confiscated by the nazis in 1938.All records were burned,lost,or destroyed,He made a statement that his guns were all as good or better than any of the English makers.
All the old I.meffert guns are collecters,most are in other countries other than germany,Lots did not survive the war.Anyone care to add anything?? Does this sound about correct??

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Tom_Bigbore
.224 member


Reged: 16/01/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Germany
Re: Old Drillings still Hunters??? [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #15918 - 18/06/04 01:51 AM

I will post reloading data on the weekend.

Itīs more a deer cartridge, donīt mistake with the 9,3 x 74 R. It has "only" 2000 ft-lbs. (193gr @ 2165 ft/s)
Donīt know how it works on boars.

Reloading stuff is no problem in Europe.
As luv2safari metioned, you must use the 193gr .364" bullet. You cannot use the .366" bullets as for 9,3 x (62 , 64 , 74)

Tom

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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
Re: Old Drillings still Hunters??? [Re: Tom_Bigbore]
      #15968 - 19/06/04 12:00 PM

40 grains of IMR 3031 and DKT 193 gr bullets worked well in my 9,3x72r's. I don't vouch for the safety of any loading i quote here, or anywhere else, though....have to say that, sorry...

I think that your gun may have been made January, 1908. Depending on condition, it may be worth anywhere from $1,000.00 to $1,800.00 right now, according to the market. It is a good one, and you should keep it. The hammer drillings in this configuration don't command the high prices paid for hammerless drillings in more modern configurations, but they are wonderful guns that need to be used afield...!

I had my best day ever in the field as a 12 yo kid with my first drilling, a Charles Dailey Diamond Grade sidelock in 12 and 30-30. I mowed lawns and cleaned garages for three summers to buy it. I took 7 chucker, 15 valley quail and a 34" 5x5 mule deer the same day with that drilling...back when we had that kind of hunting here in Northern Nevada...long gone...

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

Edited by luv2safari (22/06/04 04:29 PM)

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Old Drillings still Hunters??? [Re: luv2safari]
      #15980 - 19/06/04 10:52 PM

Thanks for the reply,That was a very nice story you shared with us,& thanks for the info & the reloading load.Yea i agree those days are gone,When i was 12 we had bobwhite coveys & rabbit everwhere but no deer or turkey much,now opposite.How do you shoot the birds with out a dog,I always wondered?I want to try grouse here in Ga. with out a dog.My dogs hunt & tree everything but are hounds instead of bird dogs.They love to hunt.I had another thought about the old drilling.Someone told me that the primer i blew up could have been from a worn firing pin that has gotten sharp with wear?Also they said the hole around the firing pin could be stretched with age & use & dryfireing? & that it is to big and kinda stamps the metal into it & is just worn out around the hole?Have you ever heard of this before?If so could it be fixed?I have heard of bushed firing pins but dont know exactly what that means.Iam going to try it with shooting glasses on with New S&B ammo before i take it back to the gunsmith that checked it out for me before I shot her the first time.Also have you ever tried sub caliber inserts to shoot other calibers?I thought of getting some in lesser calibers to keep the pressures lower & just plink & maybe target shoot?I think i could shoot 9mm makrov & 28gauge shotshell?Any caliber suggestions besides 22LR.Also do you know who makes inserts?Can they be accurate to 25yrds?
Thanks for the help Nitrobrothers & this has been a learning experince & Great FUN!!!!

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davem3
.300 member


Reged: 10/02/04
Posts: 121
Loc: birmingham,al usa
Re: Old Drillings still Hunters??? [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #15989 - 20/06/04 12:55 AM

I had much the same experence with my O/U in 16ga./9.3.
When I bought the gun it came with 8 rounds of DWM ammo and the sellor told me it kicked too much for him to shoot.
When I shot it, the recoil was rough but then the gun refused to open and when I finally susceeded the primer was blown and extruded back into the firing pin hole.
When I slugged the barrel (something I should have done before firing) I found the groove to be .358. I have not been able to find any reference to a 9x72R but the good thing is that there is a large selection of .358 bullets and the gun shoots cloverleafs at 100yds with 200gr. Rem,SRA, or HDY over 38/IMR 3031.
The fact that the gun fired a .366 bullet down a .358 bore without any apparent damage is a testament to it's construction.
That was over 40 years ago and it has been shot countless times since then and you still can't see the line where the barrels/frame come together.
No idea on the maker as it has an added scope rail inset into the rib where the maker's name would have been.
Dave

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pwm
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Posts: 216
Loc: Banana Republik of Germany
Re: Old Drillings still Hunters??? [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #16012 - 20/06/04 01:45 PM

2g Sch.P means 2 gramm - 31 grain Schultze Pulver, the schultze nitro powder also use in america
27 31 is a ? normally is it one bullet weigth, 27 or 31gramm?
in any case this is not the proof load, it is the load the gun was build for.
the S&B and the the RWS load now back in production shut be safe in any gun you find with this chambering.

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Tom_Bigbore
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Reged: 16/01/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Germany
Re: Old Drillings still Hunters??? [Re: Tom_Bigbore]
      #16105 - 22/06/04 07:03 PM

Here is some loading data for the 9,3x72R
Hope itīs of use for you, because it reflects european reloading stuff.

All cases are RWS. Some bullets are .366 diameter but the load is CIP proofed for it. (2000 bar hmp)

bullet--brand--weight--powder--brand--weight--primer--cartlength--velocity

TMF--Delsing--193gr--N540--Vithtavuori--53gr--WLR--3,386"--2210 ft/s
TMF--RWS--193gr--N540--Vihtavuori--53gr--WLR--3,362"--2220 ft/s
TMF--RWS--193gr--N140--Vihtavuori--46gr--HP1225--3,362"--1970 ft/s
TMF--RWS--193gr--SR4759--Dupont--29,5gr--HP1225--3,362"--1985 ft/s
TMF--RWS--193gr--IMR3031--Dupont--37gr--HP1225--3,362"--1970 ft/s
TMF--RWS--193gr--JSPNo.1--Rottweil--65gr--RWS5341--3,362"--1475 ft/s
Vulkan--Norma--231gr--N550--Vihtavuori--52,5gr--RWS5341--3,504"--1945 ft/s
TMR--Delsing--231gr--N550--Vihtavuori--53gr--CCI200--3,406"--2065 ft/s
KS--RWS--247gr--N550--Vihtavuori--49,5gr--CCI200--3,602"--1910 ft/s
TMR--Delsing--250gr--N550--Vihtavuori--51,5gr--CCI200--3,425"--1980 ft/s
TR--Sako--256gr--N550--Vihtavuori--51gr--CCI200--3,551"--1950 ft/s
TMF--RWS--193gr--R902--Rottweil--45gr--%--3,358"--2165 ft/s (max load)
TMF--RWS--193gr--R907--Rottweil--51gr--%--3,358"--2165 ft/s (max load)

Before 1945 there was a BP load available: (3,2 grammBP/49gr) (227gr bullet / 1450 ft/s)
as well as Nitro loads:
(2,5 gramm R5 / 29gr) (193gr / 2015 ft/s)
(2,9 gramm R5 / 45gr) (200 gr / 2250 ft/s) fired in weapons which are proofed for

I spoke with the Suhler proofhouse regarding the Sch.P issue. The "specialist" for old weapons is on business trip.
Iīll call him later this week. btw 27/31 Gramm of bullet weight is 417/478 grains. Donīt let us make a DG rifle out of it.

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blackbearhunter
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Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Old Drillings still Hunters??? [Re: Tom_Bigbore]
      #16224 - 26/06/04 04:52 AM

Thanks Tom.You have been a great help.I feel safe shooting the old girl now and have some loads to try ......
I know what kind of load the 9.3x72r is now......

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