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450_Ackley
.375 member

Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia

My new GP Greener Bore Gun
#82538 - 16/07/07 05:41 PM

As promised, I have taken a couple of photos of my new toy for anyone interested in having a look.
It's very plain and simple, but it didn't cost the earth and its fun to shoot, what more could you want?
It is based on a GP Greener action with a 27" Pac-Nor barrel, 1~20" twist and 7 lands and grooves. It has an NECG rear sight and a Williams "shorty" ramp front sight. And a most welcome red Decelerator recoil pad.
It weighs 8lb 15 ozs empty. I had my gunsmith bead blast blue it to cut down on glare, and also to preserve the light Greener stampings on the action sides.
Wood is still the original wood, might get the checkering re-cut one day to make it look a bit better.
Going to the range tomorrow to see what happens, I have some Paradox style projectiles to try, they weigh 680 grains with a Hollow point and I also have some .732" diameter round balls, they weigh 570 grains.

Regards,
David.

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degoins
.333 member

Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 427
Loc: SC, USA

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450_Ackley]
#82542 - 16/07/07 09:42 PM

very nice!!! thanks for posting.

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bouldersmith
.375 member

Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 609
Loc: Boulder Colorado

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: degoins]
#82543 - 16/07/07 09:46 PM

Nice....I'm building one for a customer, a 20 bore on a large comercial martini action. Neat stuff.
Steve

--------------------
New website http://www.bertramandco.com

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rigbymauser
.400 member

Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: bouldersmith]
#82559 - 17/07/07 02:01 AM

Thanks for posting 450Ackley...

A really nice gun to pop skippys with

Please let us know what loads your are shooting + accuracy..

Where does the bigframe martini-Henry origin from?? 577-450?

Edited by rigbymauser (17/07/07 02:20 AM)

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: rigbymauser]
#82562 - 17/07/07 02:14 AM

Good luck David - 1 in 20 is a good twist for 500gr. bullets in .45 calibre. Larger bores require slower twists as even a .50 cal. with 24" will handle bullets over 650gr. From my meager experiance, a 20 bore should have around 46" of twist for short conicals and 56" TO 70" for round balls.
: 12's, which will hold up to 190gr. 2F and round ball in a 2-1/2" case is better served with 80" to 100" of twist, fastest around 70" perhaps.
; I hope yours is OK.
; PacNor makes find barrels, as you already know. I am surprised they made a 12 bore with that twist. Might work find with 1,000 grain bullets.
; Very nice gun, just worried about that twist. With really low velocities in the 1,200fps range, it might be OK.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (17/07/07 02:18 AM)

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500grains
.416 member

Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: DarylS]
#82568 - 17/07/07 06:32 AM

Nice rifle.

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450_Ackley
.375 member

Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: DarylS]
#82572 - 17/07/07 07:39 AM

DarylS,
I know what you mean, 20 twist is the only one Pac-Nor makes, Shaw and Hastings both make 34" twists, which would have been better, but they will not ship barrels outside the U.S. Time will tell I suppose. Going to the range today to try it out, will post some results tonight all going well.

Regards,
David.

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450_Ackley
.375 member

Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia

Range Results GP Greener 12 bore. [Re: 450_Ackley]
#82593 - 17/07/07 07:31 PM

Well I did go to the range today to try out the new toy.
Results were better than I expected. The top group is using the 680 grain CBE Paradox HP projectile, with a load of Nobels 82, a shotgun powder I have left over from my Clay Target days and a BPI gas seal and various card and felt wads, then a liquid alox lubed bullet, roll crimped. That group measures 1.750" c to c of the widest holes.
The bottom group is 5 rounds of a .732" round ball, also liquid aloxed. The load for it uses AP 70N powder and a BPI Light Brush wad with the ball seated on top and a normal fold crimp applied, a very basic easy to load round. That group measures 2.300" c to c widest holes. Both groups were fired only at 50 metres. I fired 10 rounds at 100m with the CBE bullets offhand and managed to keep all of them in about a 7" circle, not bad, but not brilliant either.
Velocity went 1115 fps for the CBE bullets, unfortunately my chronograph did not want to co-operate with the round ball loads, most probably because of the wad producing error readings. All in all, I'm happy with it.

Regards,
David

Edited by 450_Ackley (17/07/07 07:32 PM)

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degoins
.333 member

Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 427
Loc: SC, USA

Re: Range Results GP Greener 12 bore. [Re: 450_Ackley]
#82595 - 17/07/07 09:31 PM

very impressive......makes me want one even more now!!! thanks alot!!!

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member

Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun *DELETED* [Re: rigbymauser]
#82596 - 17/07/07 10:12 PM

Post deleted by ALAN_MCKENZIE

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
#82601 - 18/07/07 12:40 AM

Thanks for posting the groups, David. Looks as if it's doing just fine. I had thought earlier of getting the Hastings barrel, but was concerned about the 'fast' 35" twist. Maybe I shouldn't have been concerned?
: Since you are in Australia, where I assume most of the Hodgdon powders are made, can you get the ADI equivelent of 'Longshot', shotgun powder? This one is listed in the data for pushing 1-1/4 ounce loads of shot out at almost 1,600fps. This data should be useable in the 12 bore for round ball loads as well wiht virtually identical results. BTW, that 1,600fps is 50fps faster than the heavy 12 bor black powder load of 7 drams (191gr.) and the smokeless load will have 1/2 the recoil.
: BTW- if you have a friend in the States, they can buy anthing you need and send it along, as far as I know. I've bought scopes from the States, that way while it is illegal for any 'store' there to sell me one.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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450_Ackley
.375 member

Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: DarylS]
#82610 - 18/07/07 07:15 AM

Daryl,
Thanks for the comments, I looked on the ADI website, AP 70N that I am using is the same as Hodgdons Universal Clays, ADI make a slower one for pistols called AP 100, supposed to be similar to SR 4756, but they list no data in shotshells for it at all. The Nobels 82 has a burning rate similar to +/- Herco. haven't tried Herco yet, always had brilliant results with it when I loaded OO/SG's.
Can't find much on Longshot it looks to have a burning rate between Blue Dot and 2400. ADI does not have anything similar to it listed, it might be made elsewhere, or at least not available to us in Australia.
I'll keep playing and see what I come up with.

Regards,
David.

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450
.300 member

Reged: 30/12/06
Posts: 199
Loc: Melbourne,Victoria, Australia

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450_Ackley]
#82621 - 18/07/07 05:19 PM

450Ackley

That is a nice rifle.

I have been mucking around with a Marlin slugmaster which has a fully rifled barrel. (Couldn't find a greener or a parodox rifle that I could afford) I had a parodox mould made by CBE in
Sydney. It weighs 740 grains. I also loaded around ball which weighed 540 grains. I started out with AP70 but then switched over to AP100. I found some loads in Graeme Wrights book, Shooting the English double barrel rifle.

I tried useing card and felt wads, but my most accurate load came from brand new Winchester cases, AP 100, winch 1 ounce wad Very easy and accurate. No signs of pressure. They are great fun to shoot.

--------------------
The worst days shooting and hunting is better than the best day at work

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450_Ackley
.375 member

Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450]
#82624 - 18/07/07 07:10 PM

450,
Any chance you might be able to send me a PM with the AP 100 load you are using? Have you chronographed it?
I sent an e-mail off to ADI today asking a few questions, will see if they send a reply.

Thanks,
David.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450_Ackley]
#82632 - 19/07/07 01:38 AM

4756 and 7625 are also useable as these are what I used in my RB 12 bore loads. Unfortunetly, burn rate is only one of the factors in comparing powders. Energy per grain is also high on the list of determining factors.
; With round ball, one could start around 24g.r of either 7625 or 4756. 7625 is the faster of the two, and may give better results with round ball. I seem to remember that 4756 was used in and around 30 gr. charges with round balls and enough wads to fill the case. I used the cupped base wads, base cut off and cup-up to hold the undersized ball in the centre of the bore. One was used cup down on the powder, then filler wads, then cup-up to hold the ball centred. This was necessary for accuracy in my smoothbore.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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450
.300 member

Reged: 30/12/06
Posts: 199
Loc: Melbourne,Victoria, Australia

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: DarylS]
#82645 - 19/07/07 10:05 AM

David.
Tried to send you a PM on three occassions. It would not recognize the user name 450 Ackley.

Wayne.

--------------------
The worst days shooting and hunting is better than the best day at work

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450_Ackley
.375 member

Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450]
#82654 - 19/07/07 02:12 PM

Wayne,
Try it with an underscore between the 450 and the Ackley, as in 450_Ackley, that might work. (Or just click on my username in one of my posts, above the avatar)

Regards,
David.

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LukeinNZ
.224 member

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 30

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450_Ackley]
#82767 - 21/07/07 07:30 AM

Hey 450 Ackley,
Lovely looking bore gun. DO you mind if I ask what the project from start to finish cost? Looks to me an economical means of owning your very own "bore gun". Happy shooting...I want one!

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450_Ackley
.375 member

Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: LukeinNZ]
#82771 - 21/07/07 08:04 AM

Luke,
Wasn't too bad actually, the GP Greener cost me $375-00 AUD with the shotgun barrel, which I still have, my gunsmith made it a switch barrel, so I have 2 barrels and 2 forends, just loosen the screw on the side of the action and unscrew one barrel and replace with the other, takes less than 2 minutes. The barrel from Pac-Nor cost me $270-00 AUD, $20-00 for a chamber from another gunsmith who had a reamer, my gunsmith that put it all together and I swapped a few things that I had and he wanted, so that cost very little, the sights, recoil pad etc all up cost around $180-00 AUD.
So long story short I got out of it for well under $1000-00 Australian. The mould from CBE was quite expensive, $235-00, but when you see the amount of work that went into the mould and how good it works, making both hollow points and solids, you can more than understand why. I also bought a round ball mould from Jeff Tanner in England, landed in Australia, I think it set me back $65-00, custom made to any size you want. Shotgun cases and wads cost bugger-all, they don't use a lot of powder per shot and lead prices are reasonable at the moment, so you can have a hell of a lot of fun for not much money.

Regards,
David.

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Omnivorous_Bob
.333 member

Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 285
Loc: Montana

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450_Ackley]
#82957 - 24/07/07 01:57 AM

Wow, 450 that's a great looking rifle. Thanks for posting the pictures and info. If mine comes out half as nice I'll be thrilled. I haven't obtained a barrel yet, and had the same concerns about twist. I was thinking along the lines of 1:66 or 1:60.

I think the modern fast twist barrels are designed with sabots in mind, not us luddites launching big hunks of lead. Your's certainly seems to not have any issues with twist based on those groups!

Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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333_okh
.275 member

Reged: 24/12/05
Posts: 87
Loc: Northern California

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
#85057 - 03/09/07 07:36 AM

Comparitively, how much bigger in diameter is the current barrel from the shotgun barrel that was on it?

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member

Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 333_okh]
#85084 - 04/09/07 01:09 AM

Badger barrels in the US are making a 1 in 36 twist barrel which according to all reports is ideal for ball and also slugs.

Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
#85134 - 05/09/07 12:46 AM

Bob, I like your idea about the 60" twist as opposed to the 35". Back in the hayday of double ML's for dangerous game, the English makers were hung up over using twists in the 36" range, as noted by Forsyth in his little book " The Sporting Rifle and it's Projectiles" printed in 1861 or 2.
; He noted the fast twists stripped balls, and recommended slower twists, as slow as 1 in 12 feet in some instances. We know today, that is too slow as enormous charges are needed to get stability in those rates of twist.
; 60" to 70" would probably handle quite well with round balls and short slugs. My own 14 bore (.69 cal.) rifle, with it's 66" twist shot amazingly well with RB's as well as slugs in the 600gr. weight. 5 shot round balls groups off the bench ran 1 1/2" consistantly, over a 20 years of such use with only the express sights for aiming. The heavier slugs greatly increased recoil and were not used much, only for testing, however they did shoot to the same sights to 50 yards and ran roughly 2" fo groups, much larger than round balls.
: The round balls, if slightly hardened, would exit a moose so more penetration wasn't needed. RB's in pure lead weighted 480gr. at .680" diameter, while WW balls at .683"(same mould) weighed 466gr. I ran the balls at 1,550fps, same as my 12 bore ctg. gun did with 5 1/2 drams (150gr.) of 2F and .715" balls at 545gr. in pure lead.
: For most hunting, I'd use RB's and pick a rate of twist expecially for them. The 60" to 75" would be IT. Comprimise twists, like the 35" normally avialable nowadays, interest me little as they usually fail to deliver the best results from either projectile. My 12 bore double gun would average 2" at 25 yards, shooting lefts and rights, and it was a smoothbore. Longer range shooting would be necessary for a rifled bore to show it's potential, I believe.
; I suggest picking the appropriate twist for the projectile you wish to shoot.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450_Ackley]
#85863 - 19/09/07 03:55 AM

.450 - the Lyman Shotshell Handbook, 3rd edition, has some good data in the rear for all the gauges using buck, ball, Brenneke and slug data.
; Because this is an older edition, the powders used don't include Longshot or other more modern powders, however the data is rather exciting to say the least.
; The wad columns noted in the data, closely approximate what I found to work well in my double, so many years ago.
; Data for a .690" ball, (both Lyman and Lee make this mould) as well as the Lyman 475gr. slug, some conical 12 bore slug I don't know about as well as Brenneke slugs shows data from the mid 1,300fps range to almost 1,600fps.
: Powders used are Blue Dot, Unique, Herco, SR 7625, SR 4756 and Hi-Scor 800X.
: The loads running mid 1,500fps are duplicates for the African 12 bore BP load of 7 drams (190gr.), yet recoil is down in the 2-3/4" mag. shotshell range. Various shotshells are used.
: I hope this isn't a duplicate post.
: I've just loaded up a bunch of test loads using 35.5gr. 4756, 3, 1/8" cards and the base of a steel-shot wad for keeping the slightly undersize .722" WW ball I have, in the centre of the cylinder bore. Due to having the cards on top of the powder, instead of a sealing plastic cup wad, more powder is needed to achieve roughly 8 to 10,000LUP. I suspect I'll have to get up around 40gr. to get the requisite velocity in the 1,550fps range from my old pump-gun. In my load, the plastic wad is directly underneath the ball, and allows a standard fold crimp in the target hulls I have, yet shows the ball in the centre, for easy identification.
; I do like your gun.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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450_Ackley
.375 member

Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: DarylS]
#86065 - 22/09/07 02:45 PM

Daryl,
Thanks very much for the info, currently loading up some slugs with AP-100 (similar to but not the same as SR 4756), will try them out over the next few weekends.
Had some interesting chronograph data last weekend...
Tried some AP-70N (Universal Clays), the load was an ACTIV case, CCI 209 primer, a Gualandi 24 gram wad with the petals removed and a CBE 680 grn HP Paradox style projectile and roll crimped. The velocity registered over my CED Millenium 2 chronograph was 1450 fps, I thought this was too high and the wad column might have been casting shadows or something over the screens, but I also put a few over a mates Oehler 33, same velocity. It certainly gets your attention off the bench, as the GP only weighs a shade under 9 lb.
I have the 1st, 2nd and 3rd editions of the Lyman book as well, they certainly did have some fun making up all the different loads in the books. Regretably we can't get Longshot powder over here, I asked ADI about it, it's not sold under another name here either, AP-100 is the slowest of the "shotgun type" powders they have available, must say I was very impressed with the help I received from ADI, as they sent through quite a list of load data including velocities and pressures for slug loads using AP-100, which is not listed in their book.
Will let you know how these loads go, should have some brass cases from RMC coming soon too.

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Jim_w
.224 member

Reged: 09/07/07
Posts: 3
Loc: Alabama

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450_Ackley]
#86256 - 27/09/07 08:18 AM

Longshot is a Hodgdon's "Spherical" powder, therefore made by the Olin Ball Process in St Marks, Florida. It is not an ADI product.

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mehulkamdar
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450_Ackley]
#86470 - 02/10/07 01:59 PM

David,

Beautiful gun! Have you been out hunting with it yet?

Congratulations!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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450_Ackley
.375 member

Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: mehulkamdar]
#86527 - 03/10/07 04:49 PM

No, haven't taken it hunting as yet, I hope to one day, should work quite well on the odd pig or goat over here.
Work keeps me quite tied up, don't seem to ever have enough time to go hunting these days.

450 Ackley.

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mehulkamdar
.416 member

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Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450_Ackley]
#86707 - 07/10/07 01:40 AM

David,

It should work beautifully, I am sure.

I have a pending invitation to shoot some feral goats on a property in Texas but this is going to be far less edxciting - just a good friend and I going out with an SKS each.

You are a very fortunate man!

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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Rolland
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Reged: 31/12/06
Posts: 281
Loc: Camp Verde, AZ

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450_Ackley]
#86792 - 08/10/07 02:46 PM

I have been looking for one of these actions for a while to do just that build a 12 or 20 bore. Thats a nice job would be a kick (no pun intended) to shoot.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: Rolland]
#86857 - 09/10/07 09:08 PM

I've loaded up a bunch of RB SR4756 loads using a .722" WW ball, cup-wads for centering the ball, card base wads, etc. with a folded crimp. I'll try them in my old Mosberg pump for starters, with the choke turned to fit the ball and seem what happens. I suspect velocties in the 1,450fps range according to the Lyman data I used.
: Of course, loading for a rifled tube can be a bit different. I suspect with the accellerating ball held by "G" force in the base cup of a wad, that it would be spun by the rifling/wad fit and need not touch the bore itself. This would also reduce pressure over the smae load with a groove diameter projectile.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Otto
.300 member

Reged: 15/09/05
Posts: 111
Loc: Arizona, USA

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: DarylS]
#87649 - 23/10/07 11:27 PM

Just put together an 11 bore rifle on a Mk111 Greener police gun. My "rifle" barrel was cut by Clearwater reboring (Jim Dubell) and has .728" bore, .744" groove, and 80" twist. Yes, I just had the shotgun barrel rifled. It has Brit proof for 1 1/2oz nitro, so feel it will do fine with round ball loads around 1200 fps. The Mk111 has the "funny" chamber and firing pin requiring modification. I cut my chamber at 2 1/2" since the R/B won't need a lot of space in the case. Also cut a short "forcing cone", but may change chamber length and/or throat according to how it shoots. Another issue that may be troublesome is the rim recess cut for the 12/14 chamber is quite generous and results in lots of headspace for a standard 12g hull. If necessary I can set the barrel back a thread, but that will require forend mods. My "rifle" is unchanged externally, full forend and mil buttstock. I'm awaiting arrival of the R/B mould so have yet to shoot. Will be great fun!

Otto

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: Otto]
#87680 - 24/10/07 11:12 AM

Otto,

Sorry for the OT post, but where are the pictures?

DO post them whenever you find time.

Rolland,

The new Cabelas store in Hoffman Estates has three Greener Martini 14 bore shotguns on sale. No idea if they are suitable for conversion to rifles though. If you want me to check on the prices etc, let me know and I'll be glad to do this when I go there this weekend.

Good hunting, gentlemen!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: mehulkamdar]
#87686 - 24/10/07 12:11 PM

Otto - check out the data in the #3 and #4 Lyman Shotshell handbooks. As all 12 bore modern factory stuff, no matter what the shot load, is loaded to approximately 12,000PSI maximum pressure.
; You will find loads in the Lyman book showing only 10,000SPI that produces 1,500fps + with round balls and slugs weighing in the 1-1/8oz. range and a bit more.
; In your rifle's 2 1/2" case, you should easily make 1,350fps to 1,400fps. Go carefully for advance to what you are comfortable with. The original .577/450 rifle ammo in the same action made almost 30,000PSI - probably in the relm of 25,000PSI at least. It is a very strong action and only limited at this point by the thin walls of the barrel.
; For round balls, one need not use a groove diameter ball. If the cup wad is cut from a trap wad, field wad or steel-shot wad, then placed cup-up with the ball sitting on top. the wad will take the rifling, spinning the ball perfectly, then fall off at the muzzle. This worked very well for me in a smoothbore, but no reason it won't work in your rifle too.
: The reason I bring this up, is a .744" round ball will weight around 640gr. in pure lead, 620 or so in WW metal which is about as hard as you might want to shoot. I have such a mould, made by Jeff Tanner. My bro is now using that ball, patched in .030" denim in his Bess, a 10 bore.
; A couple friends of mine tried patching .684" round balls and loaded them in shotshells with excellent accuracy in their full choke duck guns.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Otto
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Posts: 111
Loc: Arizona, USA

Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: DarylS]
#87717 - 24/10/07 10:47 PM

Daryl, Thanks for the response. I have the #1 Lyman manual and it shows loads for the pure lead Foster slug, but nothing heavier. With 7625 a load of 38 grs is shown for over 1600 fps. I'm thinking of starting with 25 gr and chronographing. When I hit 1200-1300fps with good accuracy I'll stop. I've used .570 RB at 1250fps on lots of game including big muleys and have yet to recover one.

Could you describe what you mean by "patching". I'm trying to visualize how one would load a traditionally patched RB in a shell case. Your idea of using the cup from a plastic wad is something I thought I'd try in CBC brass cases. These measure .790" ID and need "something" to center the ball. May need to cut the cup from a 10g wad. In plastic cases, the ball is a snug fit. I plan to size .750 balls to .744 and use Lee liquid lube. May try unsized balls too, and let the forcing cone size them. Do you think at my velocity goal pure lead balls will shoot ok? I plan to try 1-20 alloy and WW, as well as pure lead. I'm thinking my 80" twist and .0075" deep grooves will handle soft balls just fine. If not, I'll harden the alloy. Think softer balls are most effective game loads, however.

Any/all advice is much appreciated.

Otto

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Newy
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450_Ackley]
#100080 - 23/03/08 05:41 PM

Dear 450 Ackley

Sir i am new to the big bore scene and i have a Greener GP that i wish to re-barrel to 12 bore as you have.
Could you please tell me the name of your gunsmith and where you have scouced your barrel from as i tried with E.R Shaw and they DONT EXPORT!.
I am having sleepless nights thinking about this Conundrum!

Kindest Regards

Newy.

P.S Could you please P.M if the Details are Sensitive. And your Greener is Indeed Beautiful Well Done!

--------------------
And so here we are! Today is another day closer to not being here!

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450_Ackley
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: Newy]
#100162 - 24/03/08 04:02 PM

Newy,

PM sent.

Regards,
David.

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kenbeth
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450_Ackley]
#110242 - 23/07/08 07:42 AM

Been looking at your Greener and are impressed have decided to go down the same road brought 2 gp,s from Mialls Melbourne,would be interested in your Gunsmith address to do the conversion for a Pacnor barrel
could you pm me?

cheers ken
lightning ridge

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shinz
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: kenbeth]
#110245 - 23/07/08 08:59 AM

I'm pleased that this thread has popped up to the top again seeing as it generally predates my joining this forum. I have a Greener GP with similar stock to the photo that David posted & it has certainly got me thinking along similar lines. I'm wondering how the slug molds that Lee does which use a trap wad as a sabot would do in a barrel like this. They are promoted as being suitable for rifled barrels & I'm guessing that the 1:20 twist that Pacnor do is close to what most rifled shotguns run as standard. Yes/No?
My GP has the colour case hardened finish on it which I'd probably keep but I really like the matt bead blasted finish that Davids GP has. The idea of a switch barrel set up is certainly an excellent idea. I really fancy the idea of a deer hunt with something like this.

Steve

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shinz
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Re: Range Results GP Greener 12 bore. [Re: 450_Ackley]
#110246 - 23/07/08 09:10 AM

Quote:

unfortunately my chronograph did not want to co-operate with the round ball loads, most probably because of the wad producing error readings. All in all, I'm happy with it.

Regards,
David

David, sorry I didn't pick up on this in my previous post, don't know if you've cracked this one or not, you might be able to overcome this if you set up a screen in front of the chrono's start screen with a hole in it just big enough to shoot thru & get a sight picture, say about 1" wide & 2" high. Wads & cards tend to drop away quick enough to fall below this hole & get stopped before they get to the chrono screens. The sort of plastic corrugated card that realestate signs are made of is good for this & they can be found all over the place for next to nothing.

Steve

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Birdhunter50
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450_Ackley]
#110247 - 23/07/08 09:23 AM

Your 1 in 20 twist barrel is the right twist for shooting sabot loads. Lyman has come out with a 12 gauge hollow based sabot slug that weighs 525 grains and it can be loaded in standard trap and skeet wads and star crimped over the slug. They do well in this twist rate and shoot flat for quite a ways. They are very accurate on riflef Hastings barrels and they hit very hard on the receiving end. The molds sell for $70.00 US over here and you would have to pay extra for shipping, but I think you would really like them in your gun.

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tarawa
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450_Ackley]
#110278 - 23/07/08 09:21 PM

There's a company in Missouri called Odin Arms that rechambers the GP Greener for standard 2 3/4 inch 12- ga. shotgun shells. They also have an inventory of both converted and original shotguns for sale. They seem very reasonable.

--------------------
Life is for Service

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450_Ackley
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: tarawa]
#110350 - 24/07/08 08:18 PM

Kenbeth,
PM sent to you.
Regards,
David.

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450_Ackley
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450_Ackley]
#110351 - 24/07/08 08:28 PM

shinz,

Thanks for the idea, I'll give it a try.
Managed to get a good set of data for the CBE "paradox" projectiles, they chronograph at just a shade under 1400 fps with some AP-100 powder, bullet weighs 780 grains from my lead, which is about like wheel weights with a little lino, might be a bit hard for this calibre, but I was making rifle projectiles at the same time and decided to cast a few 12 bores while the pot was going. Sure drains the lead in a hurry though. I've had the best luck with filling the big groove in the projectile with lube, not exactly "pucka" but it works for me and stops the leading much better than liquid alox does. This rifle has taken just on 240 rounds to get the loads worked out to what I expect, which is 5 shot groups at 100 metres under 3 inches with the open sights, might have been a bit ambitious looking back now, but it has worked out OK for me.
And besides, what is more fun than shooting such a fun firearm, any excuse will do me!

Regards,
David.

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shinz
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450_Ackley]
#110392 - 25/07/08 02:40 PM

David, sorry if this is getting off topic a bit, I was doing some online research for some buckshot loads for my GP (as you do

)& came across this. Buckshot My original suggestion of the plastic sheet was based on thinking you were probably using either or both patches & felt wads. I don't know what this guy was using as wads but something a bit heavier for a screen might be called for. Ply or MDF, from memory it was about 12mm MDF that I saw used as a "wad" screen for a chronograph. A bit more looking around on google gave me this Screens Toward the bottom of the page, a very similar setup to what I've seen, this time with ply it would appear, so depending on what you're using for wads you might go with something heavier.
Steve

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450
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450_Ackley]
#116994 - 15/10/08 05:16 PM

450 Ackley.

Sounds like you are having a lot of fun with the bore gun. Can I ask who did the rebarrel job. Obviously they have the 12 bore reamer. I have just bought a greener police shotgun with the view of converting it the same way you have. Have you got a web address for the for pac-nor barrels. My earlier Marlin was not legal for big bore events. Your gun looks great.

Wayne

--------------------
The worst days shooting and hunting is better than the best day at work

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450_Ackley
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450]
#117103 - 17/10/08 10:52 AM

Wayne,
No problem, the web address for pac-nor is www,pac-nor.com they have just had a fair price increase, and with the AUD the way it is, they will be a bit more expensive than before, also they make the .729 barrels from 1.75" stock, so add another $50-00 US to the cost.
I have got 4 of them in customs at the moment (pre price rise), they are taken, but if someone cancels on a barrel, you can have one of them if you like. I should have them in about 2 weeks as long as customs are nice to me!!
Alan Swan chambered my barrel, but Jim Kent and Allan Murray can also get their hands on the reamer as well.

Have fun, I'll be writing a story for the A.S mag soon on how I went about getting mine to shoot, and what loading tools etc I have needed along the way.

Regards,
David.

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450
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450_Ackley]
#117114 - 17/10/08 05:21 PM

David.

Thanks for that and I will take up that offer of the barrel if someone cancels. I have been away from the forum for a while due to unforeseen circumstances, but I am getting back into the shooting. I am tossing up between 12 bore rifle or 577 calibre. I would like to build it on the greener action so I think the 12 bore will be better suited. What is the best groups you have got with yours. I like the ball loading the best. I had a CBE mould made as well and they are very good. Keep us informed of your developement with this project.

Wayne

--------------------
The worst days shooting and hunting is better than the best day at work

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450_Ackley
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450]
#117116 - 17/10/08 06:45 PM

Wayne,
Here is a pic of the 4 projectiles I currently use.
L-R, a .732" round ball, 570 grains Jeff Tanner mould, a CBE HP Paradox style weighing 670 grains, same bullet but made as a solid weighs 730 grains, an NEI mould I just got this one weighs 845 grains. All weights are using the lead mix I use, similar to Lyman #2.
Best groups have been with the solid CBE at present, had a few groups going around 3 inches at 100 m. It averages closer to 4 inches in reality. The round balls will easily group into 2 inches or less at 50m.
Haven't done much with the NEI bullet yet, but the 6 I fired last weekend were in 2.5 inches at 50m, no load development on them yet.

Regards,
David.

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450
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450_Ackley]
#117117 - 17/10/08 07:29 PM

David.

That is damn good accuracy. I am really hoping someone cancels their barrel. When is the first hunting trip with the weapon. Good luck.

Wayne

--------------------
The worst days shooting and hunting is better than the best day at work

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450
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450]
#117119 - 17/10/08 07:50 PM

David

Still can not get a pm to go to you. can send me one so I can get a return name

Wayne

--------------------
The worst days shooting and hunting is better than the best day at work

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DarylS
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450]
#117132 - 18/10/08 02:51 AM

Any time you can get a large bore shotoing into 4" or less at 100 yards, you have a super winning combination. My groups ran around double that from the smoothbore, which I figured was pretty much the lower limit. Gil Sengle got groups with round balls from his smooth-bore 12 gauge Martini in the 3" range at 50 yards - similar to mine and plenty tight enough for big game shooting. He used undersized balls as I did, with inverted gas-check wads fro ball centering (cut from plastic trap wads).

I suspect fast twists, such as the common 35" or 36" used in modern factory rifled 12's and Hastings barrels might do better with some sort of slug, but still might shoot fine with round balls - one needs only to experiment.

Those who have slower twists may be best to stick with the round balls. I still haven't tried any of the loads I have developed for my 16 bore Husky side by side. The right tube is rifled in the slowest of twists ever cut - straight. It's 13 bore size makes for interesting looking ammo as the chamber is cut for a 16 bore hull - probably brass. Using plastic cases, the .684" ball I'm using must be glued to a wad and protrude from the case mouth. It doesn't go to the bottom of the grooves, but engraves 1/2 wad so might work. - One of these days?

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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bigdog
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: DarylS]
#117154 - 18/10/08 09:05 AM

Looks like good bullets and good shooting with the round balls. My 2 bore has a 1:96 twist for the round balls. A very slow twist for the 3500 grain whoppers.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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DarylS
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: bigdog]
#117217 - 19/10/08 09:34 AM

I project a normal charge for that deuce bore would be in the 20 to 25 dram range. That's 546gr. to 683gr. of 1F or 2F. I don't think I'd ever want to see someone attempt that. I don't think the stock would bear it, let alone the shooter, for that matter. It is doubtful if you could hold it in both hands, waist high and fire that much powder.
: Have you shot it, bigdog & if so, what load - 10 drams?

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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bigdog
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: DarylS]
#117226 - 19/10/08 03:38 PM

Actually, Steve is finishing a few minor details on it this weekend. It is suppose to ship out to me on Tuesday the 21st. It will take a few days to arrive so maybe by next Saturday I will have it. I will not be shooting 500 or 550 grains of powder in it. With a 21 pound gun the recoil would be devastating. I will probably start with a light load of 175 grains and work my way up to ??? what ever I can handle. I will chronograph the loads so we will have some real 2 bore data. There isn't much out there right now to go off of.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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lancaster
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: DarylS]
#117259 - 20/10/08 04:35 AM

Daryl, I think you dont have introduce you husqvarna to the audience here. believe its one of the rare M 17a with straigth rifling. have a strong interest for the swedish bore guns http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=109526&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
have you make a chamber cast now, never see it from a husq with straigth rifling. would say its for 16 bore brass with roundball

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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DarylS
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: lancaster]
#117260 - 20/10/08 04:45 AM

That's the gun. I've not made a chamber cast, but believe it is for a brass case. That is the only way a 13 bore ball would be able to fit in a case loaded in the chamber. Using fibre wads, I hollow out the top of the uppermost one, then hot-glue a .684" ball on top. The ball sticks out the case with over 1/2 of the ball showing, but is firmly held in the plastic. I'll have to search out some brass to try. Note in the picture, the first engraved ball is a 12 bore ball I've hammered into the bore to check land/groove dimensions. The second is a .684" ball that was pushed through the bore showing the rifling engraves 1/2 way on the ball, which will hold the ball from spinning. The third ball is an as-cast .684" ball. As I noted above, I've not fired this gun yet. When I received it, my shoulder allowed no shooting at all. With time, I'll be able to shoot again as things are improving without the DR's. help. It's interesting that every time the Dr's. here are on strike, the death rate seems to fall.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: DarylS]
#117261 - 20/10/08 04:56 AM

yes, they were made for 50 mm long bras cases with a bore size round ball and black powder load like the upper cartridge in the pic.
when having time please make and post pics of the gun. do it come to canada with the current load of swedish classics? its a shame for swedish goverment.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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tinker
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: DarylS]
#117262 - 20/10/08 04:56 AM

Good to see you here Lancaster-

Is it possible for you to post a larger image of the page you show above here?

Daryl-

Have you looked at the CBC 'Magtech' brass?
Is it available to you in Canada?

--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: tinker]
#117266 - 20/10/08 08:21 AM

Here's the stamping and rear sight. The front sight is a simple, normal bead. The right barrel on mine, as shown, is the rifled one. It is considerably larger in diameter than the left barrel, which is a true 16 bore and is choked full. This gun came with the 'lot' of side-by-sides that are being sold by Tradeex. I haven't checked on brass cases for it as of yet.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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88MauSporter
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: DarylS]
#117272 - 20/10/08 11:37 AM

Very cool Daryl.
Oh how I want to put together my ball loads. I hav ethe gun in smooth 16 ga and 12.7X44R.
I want to see if a ball load is usable with the sights for close boar shot.
I will use your round ball advise.

thanks,

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

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DarylS
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 88MauSporter]
#117312 - 21/10/08 03:12 AM

88Mau - Some of the 12.7x44R are listed as rimfires. Some are listed as central-fire cases. Due to the period of make, they should all be centrefires. The picture shown by Lancaster shows a thin rim on the 12.7 cal case, consistant with centrefire cases. I think such a combination gun would be a blast and an impressive gun for shooting most of our big game! How I wish mine were just such a combination, however, with a proper sized ball (.703"), it will make a forminable bear/moose gun as it is. I am really temped to shorten the tubes, though and to install better sights. So far, I'm resisting myself. That stock will look pretty good when refinished - eh?

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: DarylS]
#117318 - 21/10/08 04:54 AM

I have the pic only in this size but you can safe it and make it bigger. the cartridges are the 20/50 bullet cartridge, the 12,7x44R and the 9,3x57R/360BPE. the modell 17a was made in 28/50, 24/50 and 20/50, the modell 17 b was made with 12,7x44R which is allways the center fire version because the rimfire cartridge is a 12,7x42 iirc and the modell 17c was made with a 9,3x57R barrel.
I do not belief that daryls gun is a modell 17 because they allways have a pistol grip but cant say it not which model it realy is. I think that this gun deserve a good rework.

like to see a chamber cast

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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DarylS
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: lancaster]
#117536 - 24/10/08 02:01 AM

I see Cabalas has 16 bore Magtech brass cases. At $20.00 each, they're out of my league. I may have to turn some from scrap or make them from the .015" wall brass tubing. Tubing would be the easiest method, I think, with all parts silver soldered (low temp) together.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: DarylS]
#117545 - 24/10/08 03:38 AM

this cant be rigth, maybe 20 dollar for a 25 cases box????

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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tinker
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: lancaster]
#117547 - 24/10/08 04:24 AM

Twenty bucks is about right for a box of 25 from Cabela's.
There's no way they could be asking $25 a pop for those gum-wrapper cases. No one else is.
No Way.

-Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: tinker]
#117565 - 24/10/08 09:53 AM

They were listed as $20.00 and a # 1 in the quantity bracket. No where did it say if that was each or for a box of 25. I'd hope it was for a box of at least 10 but that info is missing.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tinker
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: DarylS]
#117571 - 24/10/08 11:14 AM

Daryl-

The quantity per box (as factory packaged) is 25 pieces.
It might do you well to drop a line on Cabela's to see what the straight story is.
In retrospect, the value is good once you've run them in the gun - especially compared to the comparative cost of making your own in the machine shop.

--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: tinker]
#117598 - 25/10/08 02:43 AM

Thanks Tinker - I'll call and see what the 'scoop' is. Even if they were to come to $100.00 for a box of them, it'd be OK.

There are some new rules about buying this sort of thing from the States now. It's something like anything to do with firearms becoming 'ordinance' and being prohibited for export - or import. I don't know if this is a US ruling, or new Canadian. I'll have to look into that as well. An FFL Licenced handgun Gun Smith here ordered something like several thousand $$ of parts from Brownells and was refused due to this new 'ordinance' law. He's been a consistant customer with Brownells for custom parts in the past.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: DarylS]
#117600 - 25/10/08 03:42 AM

daryl, in the name of science, dont forget to make a chamber cast and post it with land and groove diameter. the straigth rifling husqvarna is a unknown area, especialy the question if it use a 65mm or the swedisch bore gun 50 mm brass case.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Bigjim
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: 450]
#121523 - 19/12/08 08:55 AM

Can you provide me with some of the AP 100 data

Have built myself a custom version of a Slugmaster and have several 2kg tins of AP 100

Thanks
Jim

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DarylS
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Re: My new GP Greener Bore Gun [Re: lancaster]
#121563 - 19/12/08 06:11 PM

Lancster - just got my cerosafe from Track - will try to get at it over the holidays.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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