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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

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Wayne59
.400 member


Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA
Re: Want to make 12 or 20 gauge round ball gun [Re: zgunbear]
      #283928 - 15/06/16 12:09 PM

I think Green Dot is a much better choice.

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zgunbear
.224 member


Reged: 25/06/15
Posts: 37
Loc: Spring Hill, TN USA
Re: Want to make 12 or 20 gauge round ball gun [Re: Wayne59]
      #284246 - 21/06/16 12:59 PM

Yeah I got the Lyman Shotshell Handbook 4th Edition and using loads that were in the book for 1 1/4 oz loads for shot so my 1.06 oz ball should be a slightly lower pressure

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I have a 30-06 and a 45-70 side by side rifle by Baikal. I also modified a 12 gauge side by side into a slug gun. My problem has always been champagne and caviar tastes on a generic diet coke and fritos budget.


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Want to make 12 or 20 gauge round ball gun [Re: zgunbear]
      #284275 - 22/06/16 02:09 AM

When I started with round ball loads, I used the 1 1/8th ounce loads for 2 3/4" AA cases, with SR4756 and SR7625.
Due to the lower pressures with these powders than are developed with trap powders like Red Dot, Green Dot, 700X or the other fast powders, I was able to carefully develop smokeless loads that duplicated the old black Powder 12 bore loads Greener mentioned, the 5 dram (136gr.) and 7 dram (191gr.) loads, running 1,350fps to 1,550fps.

Although duplicating those heavy 12 bore loads of the past, the recoil with the slower burning smokeless shotshell powders was perhaps 1/3rd of the BP loads.

Even better ballistics can be developed in most shotguns, smooth ore rifled by using Blue Dot, Longshot, Steel and Reloader 17 powders. Please refer to Lyman's shotshell loading books as well as Ed Huble's most excellent thread here at Nitroexpress.com entitled "12 GA from Hell".

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post282257

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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zgunbear
.224 member


Reged: 25/06/15
Posts: 37
Loc: Spring Hill, TN USA
Re: Want to make 12 or 20 gauge round ball gun [Re: DarylS]
      #284303 - 22/06/16 12:23 PM

Between SR4756 and SR7625 which would be the one you would recommend?
I might get a pound of it when I get paid next time.

--------------------
I have a 30-06 and a 45-70 side by side rifle by Baikal. I also modified a 12 gauge side by side into a slug gun. My problem has always been champagne and caviar tastes on a generic diet coke and fritos budget.


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Want to make 12 or 20 gauge round ball gun [Re: zgunbear]
      #284344 - 23/06/16 02:22 AM

SR4756 is the slower of the two, thus will allow higher velocities. Blue Dot is also a prime powder for these sorts of loads.

The Lyman shotshell loading manuals have excellent data near the back for slug and round ball loads, 12 or 20 gauge.

SR4756 and Blue Dot are usually close, with Blue Dot generally only a few fps faster. 4756 strikes me as being more forgiving with lighter loads - easier ignition.

12- Fed Gold Medal Cases, 4756 will break 1,600fps with 475gr. Lyman cast Fosters. With their 525gr. "Pellet" slug, 1,500fps is it- faster with the even slower powders.

In 20 bore, Blue Dot is ahead by more, however 4756 does a good job, even if it is 100fps+ slower most of the time.
For example, 350gr. Lyman sabot slug, 4756 at 1,436fps and Blue Dot at 1,596fps using Fed paper base wad, but with Fiocchi all plastic cases, 4756 makes 1,623 with the 350gr. and Blue Dot isn't listed.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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zgunbear
.224 member


Reged: 25/06/15
Posts: 37
Loc: Spring Hill, TN USA
Re: Want to make 12 or 20 gauge round ball gun [Re: DarylS]
      #287832 - 14/09/16 12:41 PM

My 12 bore gun works. It took some filing and muzzle work I have it shooting a nice group with Lyman 525 grain slugs.
[URL="http://s282.photobucket.com/user/zgunbear/media/thumper%20right%20side.jpg.html"][/URL]
[URL="http://s282.photobucket.com/user/zgunbear/media/thumper%20food.jpg.html"][/URL]

The target is an eight slug group. I am roll crimping them with an antique roll crimper I won on Ebay.
[URL=http://s282.photobucket.com/user/zgunbear/media/slug%20target.jpg.html][/URL]
Here is a family portrait of both my doubles. 45-70 Baikal on the bottom and my Thumper on top. I am thinking about having the rib engraved .722 Smooth Bore Express.
[URL=http://s282.photobucket.com/user/zgunbear/media/20160907_172608.jpg.html][/URL]

--------------------
I have a 30-06 and a 45-70 side by side rifle by Baikal. I also modified a 12 gauge side by side into a slug gun. My problem has always been champagne and caviar tastes on a generic diet coke and fritos budget.


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Want to make 12 or 20 gauge round ball gun [Re: zgunbear]
      #287845 - 14/09/16 04:41 PM

zgunbear - what wads and loads are you using, please? Good group with a smoothie, SXS. I have read the Lyman 525gr. works well in pure or alloyed lead & in smooth bores as well as rifles.
I need to borrow Keith's mould and cast some up for my Mossey 835 - 24" rifled bl.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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zgunbear
.224 member


Reged: 25/06/15
Posts: 37
Loc: Spring Hill, TN USA
Re: Want to make 12 or 20 gauge round ball gun [Re: DarylS]
      #287851 - 14/09/16 10:10 PM

I am using the Winchester pink AA wads. Under the wads on top of the powder is 12 gauge nitro card. I load the powder then the nitro card then the wad inside of the wad I put a one cc scoop of cream of wheat. Then I push the slug down into the hull. I finsh them with a roll crimp. For right now I am using Green dot. My best accuracy has been 18 grains. With this load getting an average velocity of 1000 fps. Once I use up the Greendot I will try SR4756. The man I work for at the range hunts with a .62 black powder rifle at roughly the same velocities and he believes if I can keep my shots to 50 yards or less it should drop a deer. I will be hunting his dad's old property anf it is very dense woods 40 yards is a long shot there.

Edited by zgunbear (14/09/16 10:17 PM)


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Want to make 12 or 20 gauge round ball gun [Re: zgunbear]
      #287861 - 15/09/16 12:57 AM

The ranges expected are in your favour as-is your current accuracy. When I worked with a SXS smoothbore I shortened to 26" bls - might have been 24" and mounted iron sights in the solid rib (along with scope bases) I used the cup wads cut from the base of 'spent' WAA12 white trap wads I picked up at the local trap range. These went on the powder, then the cards and fillers wads and ball took up the rest of the space to a folded crimp.

Whether folded crimp or roll crimp depends on how much material you have left for the crimp.
Lyman's Shotshell handbooks have a great deal of loading data for 12 bores - with the slug you are using as well as others and round balls too. Data to almost 1,600fps is readily available from these books.

Here, Ed Huble has an ongoing thread "12 Gauge from Hell" - with excellent load data and information if you want to improved your ballistics even further. I suggest it is best to start at the first page if you are unfamiliar with this thread.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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